Taking baby to Australia

[travispickles]

I lived in Australia for a year many moons ago and have family and friends out there. They are dying to meet my DD (7 months) and have offered to put us up etc. I can afford to take her (just) next Summer, when I have hols (am a teacher). After the following xmas she turns two and then I have to pay for her, which I cannot afford to do. My DP (her dad) can afford to come (just), but the issue is his DS(11). We simply cannot afford to take him as well, as it adds on an extra £1000. I would feel bad not taking him, but I don't want my DD not to meet my family and friends because of this. What do I do? Take just her/ take the three of us/ not go at all so as to avoid disappointing DSS? (BTW DSS lives with his mum most of the time, comes to us every other weekend although we have him half the holidays as well. )

I think you should be prepared to include him, even if that doesn't come off in the end - which it might well not if his mother refuses permission for such a long and long distance trip, or if he would rather have the time hanging around with his mates which again at 12 seems possible. Have you talked to him about it at all? I think the gesture of wanting to take him, even if it isn't possible, would mean a lot.

It's a trip with family, but it's not a trip to see his family, in my view. So not clear cut, I grant you.

You do have time between now and next summer to start the financial planning if needsbe. I would also think about planning for how you will make up the time missed that you would spend with DSS if he doesn't come with you.

But whether we like it or not, stepchildren have their parents in two different places, and can?t fully participate in both camps at all times. I don?t understand why the OP should be made to feel guilty just because she isn?t taking a non-resident stepchild with her on this particular trip? They?re already taking him to Italy ? so it?s not like they leave him out of everything.

Goodness there is a lot of heat in this debate! The boy will be spending the other half of the school holidays with OP. I agree with the call for a commonsense and pragmatic approach!

I stick to my view that he needs to be asked for his opinion taking into account that he could say yes or indeed no. But at 12 he will have an opinion and will be old enough to understand free baby places, that its time spent with family (but assume you'll also do some 'fun stuff') ... and old enough to potentially be hurt by being excluded. That's why you should talk to him.
But where I'm struggling is you started off saying how big a financial issue this is even to take DH but you've also got another holiday planned in Italy. I'm guessing Italy is cheaper but still isnt it an idea for you and DH to review the whole plan for the summer and maybe the answer is just one holiday but with all of you to Australia?

What does your DP think OP? We have a very similar situation approaching next year when a very close family member of mine gets married abroad. It will cost us thousands to attend and at least another £1500 for DSD to come too. We probably can't afford to go anyway but I would be reluctant to take DSD.

As others have pointed out to you, my DSD gets double the holidays every year that DD gets, double the Christmas and birthday presents and that is part and parcel of being a child of divorced parents. So sometimes I think that includes missing out as well from time to time. She comes to a lot of my family functions but we do not swap access arrangements around for them, so I think this trip would fall under that. This isn't very articulate as I have got DD demanding my attention but I think if your DP is onboard then you should explain to your SC that you can't afford it and that you are going to see family, not on a holiday. It is not like your DD is old enough to boast about it/remember it either!

And I disagree with the poster who said you could find the money, the OP might already be making cutbacks to pay for her ticket and actually £1000 would only cover the plane ticket, not the rest of the expenses while she is there. Good luck.

My parents are DD's grandparents. DD has a right to know and SEE them and vice versa.

Are my parents my SCs grandparents? No. My SCs like them, but they'd be horrified at the idea. Are my parents part of SCs family? Yes, but they occupy a space considerably more distant.

My SCs have an aunt on their mother's side. When they go to see her, I don't send DD. Like I said, they also go to see DH's family. And when DH's family comes here, they have time together without me.

My SCs are FINE with the set-up we have in this regard. And they LIVE with us. OP, make your own judgement - you will know better than any of us what the relationship dynamics are in your case.

In our case, we certainly don't take a 'all or none' approach. That would be absurd and it would not suit any of us. We are a blended family. A cookie-cutter approach doesn't work.

and no, you don't need to ask the 12-year-old's opinion!

I don?t think it?s right that a 12 yr old should be allowed to call the shots over this. It?s up to the OP and her partner to decide if it?s appropriate (and financially viable ) for him to travel, (and if not, then you don?t raise the question with him). Otherwise we?re back to another bizarre situation where a non-resident step child effectively dictates the schedule of the second family.

When you?re a child, there are some things you don?t get to make decisions over. Holidays are usually one of them. I also think it?s unrealistic to suggest that two half siblings should have to take exactly the same holidays as each other, when they live in different households. If the OP is expected to take SS on every single holiday, is the ex also supposed to take the OP?s daughter on all of HER holidays, just because she?s the ex?s son?s half-sister ? not, I bet she isn?t.

When you?re a step-parent, you?re usually deemed to be In the wrong if your every move doesn?t include (or be organised to suit) the child/ren from the first family. And yet the ex doesn?t have to extend the same courtesy to the children from the second family. Double standards.

as it is, the way we do things is, at least in part, to the advantage and pleasure of the SCs!

For purposes of illustration, let's say we have a holiday travel budget of £5000 for our family next year. I've just pulled that figure out of the air, but let me assure you that any travel money we DO have in this family is already a product of scrimping and saving and cutting back and doing extra work - so there IS a finite amount!)

We could take all the kids on a trip to see my family. And that would be our budget, pretty well gone.

OR. I could plan a trip outside of school holidays when fares are cheaper, for me and DD and, possibly, DH. Then in the holidays we could have a vacation all together, to someplace with the sort of attractions the older kids enjoy and which is age-appropriate. PLUS, we'd have enough left over for the kids to travel to see their mother's family or a trip with DH back to where they grew up and where his family lives, without me and DD.

In our case, the latter preserves more family ties and unity than the former.

If we asked the kids, they'd choose the latter, no question about it. (But I wouldn't ask the kids, because, like Petal says, this is a call they don't get to make.)

I'm a bit staggered by all the people who think the extra £1000 is do-able or should be budgeted for, as if it is an option. The Op has already said she can't afford it. I don't know about anyone elses financial situation but we definately could not afford this either. It's not an amount of money you can save by cutting back on the groceries, particularly when you are already buying own brand stuff and being careful!

If you can't afford it then that's it. There will be things the dss has that the new baby doesn't have becuase he has anothe household with his mum and a whole other family there - that's life. As long as he generally feels included I think he's old enough to understand this. My DD has three dd's and the youngest has a different dad. The older two have amazing holidays and experiences with their dad that the youngest will never have - that's life.

I agree with Petal - the adults decide not the children and in this case the adults have said they can't afford it so end of. It would be different if he was resident but he isn't.

This is a very interesting thread and i agree with petal, the kids should not be calling the shots. If YOU feel guilty about not taking him then you either need to find a way to do that or find a way to deal with your feelings...

I have a similiar-ish dilema, my dsd (16) has just moved in with us and so i have had to move things around, pay for extra stuff etc and do all the driving and organising as no one else/can.... Ds (12) has been offered the chance to go to france with a friend and his family for a week in october but he doesnt have a passport. Dh wont 'let' me renew his without also renewing dsd's (which would be at adult cost!) as that wouldnt be fair! She has no plans to go abroad, has not been abroad since she was 6.... Anyway, the friends grandma offered to pay for ds's passport (very kind!!) but dh is refusing as it wont be fair on dsd.... Ds will be needing it in the next year or so for school too! Arghhhhhhh

I just kenw this one would get heated! I echo what Hester says about no absolutes.

If it were me I would be really wary of doing something that has such major potential to alienate SS, it could really cause a rift between him and his sibling which would be a big shame.

We do things with my son when SS is at mum's, but I would be unlikely to do something so major unless totally unavoidable for some reason e.g. SS' mum wouldn't allow it.

Good luck working it out, not and easy one.

But Chelen, I don?t know why you think this could cause a rift? What if the ex wants to ?do something major? with her son, would she have to include the OP?s daughter, for fear of causing a rift if she didn?t??? Because that?s the principle you?re advocating.

A previous poster suggested you can?t always have ?everyone goes or no one goes? arrangements with step families. Which is very true. The plans/arrangements in Household A can?t always mirror those in Household B, and I expect most children understand that.

I think it would be very sad if the OP?s friends and relatives didn?t get to see the OP?s new baby, just because she couldn?t afford to include a non-resident step child.

I guess the big thing missing in all this is what does the Father think? Is he worried about his son's reaction, what does he think is the right thing to do?

IMO, it's not that OP and her DD are going on holiday/to visit family, it's that his Dad is going too. I think it sends the signal that his Dad has moved on and has a new family now (which clearly the SS knows, but kind of underlines it in a 'us' and 'you' kind of way). And whether OP likes it or not, SS is part of her family now too, by virtue of her being with his Dad.

I would not let him make the decision about the holiday, but I would move heaven and Earth to try and give him the option. If his Mum dislikes OP anyway, chances are she wouldn't allow it anyway.

Also, I find it bizarre the people wondering if the SS's mum should then include OP's DD in her plans as well. Of course not! Because SS's mum has no relationship with OP's DD, while OP DOES have a relationship with the SS.

Bloody hell Atwar - your DH needs a huge kick up his selfish blinkered arse ! Is he honestly refusing a great - and generous - opportunity for DS because it's "not fair" on DSD if her passport doesn't also get renewed. FFS, hers only needs renewing when she actually needs it ... it's pointless to do it before as it's money down the drain (unless he's somehow aware of an imminent passport fee increase or something).

Surely you can renew this without his say so ? .... can't remember if it needs both parents' permission or not admittedly but if he stands in the way of this I'd never forgive and DS probably wouldn't either. If all else fails though, and you can actually afford to do so, I'd renew the wretched passport just so DS can go away ..... it would however really dent the respect I had for DH though for being so pathetically petty.

Is DS part of your family or not?

He has his normal life with his Mum, but your family life is part of his normal life - can you not see this.

Your responses show that you do not , nor ever will feel he is part of your family. To explain to a 12yr old that his new baby sis gets to go to Oz and he does not because she goes for free and he does not and she is a baby and will not know it is a holiday - is just rubbish.

No one is saying do not go and see your family, but if you take DH then as a family you have to consider DS aswell. It is irrelevant that you are taking him to Italy for two weeks, use that money to take him to Oz instead or ask him which he would prefer to do.

For gods sake do not do what my nieces Step Mum did when she got to 12yr. She was told she was big enough to decide what she wanted to do for the holiday, go with Step Mum and her Dad to Caribbean or stay with Mum and DP and the new baby and go to France. She chose the Caribbean, on the day they were due to go, niece was dropped off at Mums door in a taxi, with a note saying they had decided not to take her it cost too much and she would spend the next two weeks with Mum instead.

And some of the people on here complain about step children and you wonder why - some of you just wish they never existed and whilst you may not say it, it will come across in your manner with them.

catsmother we cant really afford it to be honest, dsd didnt bother studying for her gcses and so didnt get what she needed to do a levels and the only course we coyld get her into has a £75 materials fee and is costing £12 a week bus card whereas the a level option wouldnt have this cost and so actually dsd is seriously affecting our household budget but dh doesnt see this as her having special treatment over ds financially.....

If i went behind his back to do this, even if ds's dad paid half he would go ballistic!!

I'm really sorry if I'm being dense, but petal02 are you trying to suggest I am saying that my stepson's mum should include my son, who she has no responsibility for, never shares a home with and hardly knows, in her plans for her contact time with her son? I am not saying that, as it is obviously a nonsensical argument that deliberately ignores the differences between a stepmum and a mum whose child has a half-sibling in another home.

OP, as I said before, I think this is a toughie because you are weighing the emotional against the practical.

My parents divorced when I was young and my brother and I stayed living with our mum. My dad remarried and as a result my brother and I became part of an extended family with step brothers and sisters. Not once did we go on holiday with them and we didn't think to either. We had our holiday with our mum and my dad went with his wife and her children.
We spent alot of time at my dad's house but I can honestly say that we never felt less of their family because we didn't go on holiday with them.

The way we approached it was that dsd was part of the family and included in everything, and we only saw her every 3rd weekend at one point. What prevented her doing that was if she was doing something with her mum, it wasn't a contact weekend or her mum said no to whatever it was.

I can't imagine having an opportunity like this and not having included her. That doesn't mean that I never recognised that dsd had two lots of opportunities, ie those with her mum and those with us, and dd had just one. But for me this isn't about that, it would be about having a family trip to Oz and all the memories, photos etc that went with that that would be talked about and looked at for years to come, and dsd being excluded from that. It wouldn't have felt right to me.

I'm no longer with her Dad but I still take her on holiday with myself and dd because I still consider her "mine" (not in a possessive way, just she'll never stop being my step-daughter), and I just couldn't imagine not including her.