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Step-parenting

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Original poster

Should we go for a Court Order?

61 replies

surfermum · 16/11/2005 12:49

Would appreciate everyone's views on this as dh and I are really unsure what to do for the best. We have been invited on hols with my sister and her family next year to Spain and would like to take dsd with us, but her mum is refusing to allow her. She says she doesn't want her flying as she wants to have that experience with her and her other siblings.

We're thinking about asking for a Court Order to allow us to go, but dh has been to Court before when his ex denied him contact and it's not pleasant. It's stressful for dsd's mum and that in turn is not good for dsd. I don't think it's fair on dsd for us to go jetting off abroad without her, but I don't think it's right either that the x can dictate where and when dd, dh and I have our holidays. Any views/insight?

OP posts:
NotActuallyAMum · 16/11/2005 12:59

No experience I'm afraid but can certainly offer you my opinion

Is a court order really your only option? I assume it must be as you're asking this question but do you really think she won't change her mind? If the answer to that is that she definitely won't change her mind I personally would go to court - as you say, why should she dictate when/where you all go on holiday? If you let her do it this once I doubt it will stop there - at least she'll know that she can't get away with it and hopefully she won't do it again. It's not as if she has a valid reason for refusing anyway. If you're forced to go without your dsd you won't enjoy your holiday and your dsd will be miserable knowing that you've gone without her. I don't think (but I'm certainly no expert) that this court battle would be as bad as one to gain contact as it's only for a one-off holiday - you never know a letter from your solicitor saying "if don't let her go we're taking you to court" might change her mind anyway so it might not even come to that

serenity · 16/11/2005 13:02

Does your DSD live with you or her Mum?

Original poster
surfermum · 16/11/2005 13:07

She lives with her mum.

I think it probably is, NAAM. If we don't have her mum's permission we can't go. I do wonder if we start the proceedings then she might agree before it gets to final hearing stage, but I think you're right it won't be as bad as contact proceedings. I think it would be ten steps back though in terms of dh's relationship with dsd's mum .

OP posts:
Tortington · 16/11/2005 13:10

just dont take her. if her mum wants to deny her daughter this adventure opportunity and memories then so be it. the dsd can make her own mind up later. i certainly wouldnt go to court for it. i dont think in future the dsd is going to appreciate the unhappyness of home life you may cause due to this

Original poster
surfermum · 16/11/2005 13:17

Thanks Custy. That's exactly why we've not done anything before now. We're in a total quandary because we don't want her feeling left out or that we treat dd differently. I don't want dd to miss out on the opportunities we can give her though either.

OP posts:
Squirrel3 · 16/11/2005 13:18

Surfermum, sorry no advice, what a difficult situation.

What is the likelihood of dsd's Mother being able to take her on an airplane? I bet it won't be happening in the near future! I can't believe the selfishness of her denying her dd the experience of flying and a holiday abroad.

I can understand Mum wanting to see her face and being part of the excitement, but she should put her dd first and not be so selfish.

I can understand why you wouldn?t want to go to court, it sounds like it could get messy. Your dsd loses out either way.

Tortington · 16/11/2005 13:21

do yu have to have permission for internal flights?

just being a cow - but you could take her to edinbugh or sommat if you desperatley want to get one over.

dont think i would though - but its an option!

serenity · 16/11/2005 13:21

I have to agree with Custy. She doesn't live with you, it might be unfair but it's not going to harm her to miss out on a holiday with you - there must be plenty of other things that you do as a family that she misses out on and vice versa. Getting a court order over a holiday seems to be a bit OTT, and I would imagine, would cause no end of problems between your DP and his ex. If she's just doing it to be petty then fine, your DSD will realise soon enough, but I can understand her feeling uneasy about sending her DD abroad without her.

Sorry, probably not what you wanted to hear.

Original poster
surfermum · 16/11/2005 13:27

She has 4 children and doesn't work, so I don't think she would be able to in the forseeable future.

OP posts:
Original poster
surfermum · 16/11/2005 13:28

She has 4 children and doesn't work, so I don't think she would be able to in the forseeable future.

OP posts:
chipkid · 16/11/2005 13:29

what age is dsd? does she know about the holiday? are you taking any half-siblings?-is she likely to be upset if she cannot go?

On the legal side-an application to remove dsd from the jurisdiction for a short holiday is a very simple affair. Application for s specific issue order-usually done quickly before a judge-often without the need for oral evidence, cross-examination etc. Therefore not so protracted and often less acrimonious than original contact proceedings.

However...often not worth upsetting residential parent unless it is something that you feel v strongly about! IMO

skinnycow · 16/11/2005 13:32

i think as it is her dd and she lives with her then it really is her call. Presumably you discussed the holiday with her mum before discussing it with the child? Otherwise you could paint her mum in a very bad light even though you may not know all the reasons behind her decision.

Would still go and bring her something nice back though

Original poster
surfermum · 16/11/2005 13:32

That's OK serenity, I'm just trying to see it from all points of view so we can do the right thing. We have been abroad with her this year. Her mum agreed as it was by ferry. Why do you think she would be uneasy about her being abroad with us (not challenging you, just trying to understand)?

OP posts:
skinnycow · 16/11/2005 13:37

maybe her mums scared of flying and feels uneasy about hte whole "if the plane crashed" scenario

Squirrel3 · 16/11/2005 13:44

Skinycow, I thought that could be true too.

Still think its selfish to deny dd the adventure and experience though. My dd has disabilites and when she was 10 my friend offered to take her on her first holiday abroad (I couldn't afford to) and although I was terrified as I was a bit over protective of her I let her go. I felt like my right arm had been cut off and I worried myself sick all of the time she was away, but dd had a wonderful time, nothing bad happened to her, she just came back with lovely memories and a nice tan.

Original poster
surfermum · 16/11/2005 13:52

She's 10 chipkid and her half-sister is 2.5. We went to Majorca last year with just dd, she knew we were going and was really disappointed when she couldn't come with us. That's helpful to know the process, thanks.

We did discuss it with her mum first, skinnycow. It's impossible to keep anything from dsd though as her mum discusses everything with her. Her mum isn't afraid of flying, she says she wants to have the experience of flying for the first time with all her children (others aren't dh's).

OP posts:
Gomez · 16/11/2005 13:57

I would I am afraid, how ever much hassle it may or may not cause. Your DHs ex has no more rights than him and she should be considering their joint daughters feelings rather than her (i.e. the birth mothers) wishes. And the fact that it is not really important in the 'big' picture sense would make me more likely to take this course of action as she has no justifiable reason to deny your Dh and his daughter this trip.

doormat · 16/11/2005 14:00

surfermum even if she cant afford a holiday i dont think a court order would be appropriate tbh, it could cause resentments in their household with other siblings tbh.
I have 2 ss and they go abroad all the time but my children dont resent them as they dont live here.
I have 6 children, 4 by ex knob and 2 by dh (but dh took my 4 on as his own)
If ex wanted to take them abroad(even though it would be a great opportunity) dh and I wouldnt like the idea of it as it wouldnt be fair to other children iykwim.

serenity · 16/11/2005 14:02

SM - sorry, I didn't mean that she would be with DSD uncomfortable going away with you , just going that far away full stop, but that obviously isn't the case as your DSD has been abroad with you before. Tbh she sounds very odd, and the flying thing sounds like a an excuse. I still think it's probably not worth forcing the issue though, at 10 your DSD should definitely understand that her not going is not your decision.

You said that she has other siblings at her Mums, and that she was unlikely to be able to take them away herself. Do you think that she might be limiting things because of the other children? Maybe they are getting upset because of DSD getting things they can't get at home?

FruitAndNutcase · 16/11/2005 14:51

No real advice Surfermum, but I must say I do agree with Squirrel. I think BM is being very selfish and is only depriving DSD of a nice holiday. If she has been happy for you to take her abroad before albeit on a ferry, then I cannot see her problem. Incidentally had DSD been on a ferry before you took her on holiday? If not then I rest my case, she is just being awkward. I think you should explain to her that it would let DSD down if she cannot go. I am in a totally different situation whereby BM dictates that she wants us to take DSD and DSS on holiday every year (preferably to Florida etc) but we just cant afford it. If we could afford to go abroad then I would be only too happy to take them with us. BM can afford to take them away every year, but she doesnt and goes with her friend or current boyfriend!

Incidentally, does DH have parental responsibility? If so, I do believe he has as much say as BM in what DSD does/where she goes etc. I would recommend he gets your solicitor to tell BM this via letter and if she still refuses then get them to go to a Mediator to sort it out, it will be cheaper than going to court. I still say though that at the end of the day if BM wins, it is DSD that will be let down and I think any loving parent would not want that. I would hate to see a childs face when told she cannot go on holiday, heartbreaking!

skinnycow · 16/11/2005 15:01

Can I just ask, if your inlaws wanted to take your child/ren away for a week and you were against it for whatever reason but your partner was keen for them to go - what would you do? Would you give in and let them go or would you expect to have a say?

Squirrel3 · 16/11/2005 15:07

It would depend on the reasons, if I thought that my children were going to be in any sort of danger I wouldn't let them go, if it was because I wanted to see their faces when they flew for the first time, I think I would put the children first and let them go and ask for loads of photo's.

FruitAndNutcase · 16/11/2005 15:10

Ditto Squirrel. Only if it was unsafe for the child would I refuse to let them go. I would always put what the child wanted before what I wanted.

eefs · 16/11/2005 16:01

if she can't afford to bring her other children then I can see how she could be trying to avoid conflict within her family by not allowing your DSD to go with you. Lovely for dsd to go on holidays, not so lovely for the other three children who may not have an opportunity like this.

FruitAndNutcase · 16/11/2005 17:29

Am I right in presuming that BMs other 3 children are not DH's? If so then it is really a difficult situation if she is trying not to let her other children feel left out. However, if this is the case, would/does father of the other children take them away and not DSD? Its a tricky situation but I still believe that if BM is just being subborn for the sake of it that she is denying the child a holiday for no reason.

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