Should we go for a Court Order?

[surfermum]

Would appreciate everyone's views on this as dh and I are really unsure what to do for the best. We have been invited on hols with my sister and her family next year to Spain and would like to take dsd with us, but her mum is refusing to allow her. She says she doesn't want her flying as she wants to have that experience with her and her other siblings.

We're thinking about asking for a Court Order to allow us to go, but dh has been to Court before when his ex denied him contact and it's not pleasant. It's stressful for dsd's mum and that in turn is not good for dsd. I don't think it's fair on dsd for us to go jetting off abroad without her, but I don't think it's right either that the x can dictate where and when dd, dh and I have our holidays. Any views/insight?

I can understand the x wanting all her children to be treated the same and not cause conflict within the family - they're already treated differently though because dh is the only dad who is in regular contact with his child. Dsd already has holidays and all sorts of things that the others don't get. Two of them don't see their dads at all and the third has been on holiday with her Dad. He apparently wanted to go to Spain too with her, but was turned down because it was GCSE time (fair enough, totally valid reason). By not coming with us though dsd isn't being treated the same as her sister in her other family.

FANC - wanna swap BMs?! No, she'd never been on a ferry before. He does have PR but he still needs BM's permission to take dd abroad. We don't have a solicitor, he ended up representing himself last time as we just couldn't afford it.

Skinnycow - in answer to your question, it's dificult to say what I would do, it would depend on the circumstances and what dd wanted to do.

We could just go on our own, but I don't know if we're letting dsd down by not pursuing it when she quite clearly wants to come.

Still none the wiser about what to do, but thanks for all your comments.

Skinnycow - surely there is no correlation between in-laws and father however if that is what you were suggesting.

BTW I think (although don't know as DDs are only 5 and 1) but at 10 I would allow my in-laws to take my children on holiday, particularly if I couldn't afford it mysef.

oops surfermum meant to add if dsd wants to come and you want to take her I think her mother should explain why she is not going - not your DH. At aged 10 she is old enough to be given the truth.

I really wouldn't advise solicitor's letters or even talk of legalities and courts. That will just inflame the situation. It's disappointing, and frustrating, but it's only a holiday. Save the heavy artillery for the real battles. (I was a stepdaughter, by the way.)

I think she's being an absolute cow. Totally unreasonable, jealous and unpleasant and I really feel for you. But I sadly agree that court action is horrible and can make things worse. In a few years if you want to take her, I don't think her mother will be able to stop her - certainly not without a LOT of grief. I'd recommend you have a week abroad with your dd, and another week or two in the UK or in France with your stepdaughter.
It's really crap for you though, isn't it? What a miserable cow his ex is being.

i really dont "get" this stepchild thing. As far as I can see the childs mummy doesnt want her to go for whatever her reasons are. Im sure when this child was born to her she would ever have expected to justify herself to anyone else regarding their child. but thats just my opinion obviously.

Er, this child has TWO parents. She is surfermum's stepchild but she is NOT her father's stepchild.

yes I agree this child has two parents-unfortunately her mother is clearly only thinking of herself in denying her child this chance of a holiday with her father that she would enjoy!
Really irritates me but it is a fact that residential parents have the greater say in what happens to the children-if they are unreasonable and selfish they can make contact very difficult-without actually contarvening Court Orders. It leaves the non-residential parent in a very difficult situation. I really feel for you and your partner surfermum

I actually agree that the resident parent should have more say than the non-resident about day to day issues. But IMO this is extremely selfish. The person who has the most to lose here is the little girl, and I think that's sad.

If the childs mum wanted to take her abroad would she need permission from Surfermums DH?

I do think the BM is being selfish here, but I also understand her motives. There is another thread on here which kind of echos a feeling I get here. Someones MIL want to take her children to see Santa, and she doesn't want her to, as she wants to be FIRST to do this. Although it is irrational I can understand why as a mum, you wantto be first to do something with your child. Although it means denying DSD and perhaps not being able to take her on a plane, I can still see WHY the BM feels this way.

So although she is being selfish and putting her feelings before those of her child, I can see her point. In this situation I would try to understand and respect her wishes and imagine the MN is the BM and that there was a thread saying 'My exH wants to take my DD on holiday, but I don't want her to go because...' I am sure there would be a lot of support the other way then.

PLEASE DON@T GO TO COURT, what will happen to your DSD in the longterm.

i cant speak from my own experience but several of my friends are divorced/separated. One friend in particular has 2 children with her exh. Their ds (9) has CF and his dad has only been "back on the scene" within the last 2 years as he couldnt deal with "stuff". Recently their ds had to be admitted to hospital and my friend had to ask for extra help from him which he said he couldnt do. Yet they both work and have these 2 children together. So he has now stepped back and is letting my friend deal with hospital/run herself ragged and enlist the help of her parents and friends to look after their dd. I guess from what I see, the resident parent has to deal with day to day issues and possibly has real life problems whereas the absent parent does have a choice.
Presumably also the resident parent has to make arrangements for after school care if she/he works. If the mum decided to go to work and consequently couldnt pick her child up, would you or the child's dad do it to help out?

Good post Crunchie.

just out of interest, how is she going to stop you? have passports already been issued?

my x tried to get a passport for ds1 but i stopped him because i couldnt think of any reason he would want it other than to cause trouble. we had been talking about taking the kids abroad and if he had wanted to do it he would have needed one for ds2 aswell, so i think mine is a different situation. but was just wondering how she could stop you as he has threatened several times to take te kids abroad and not bring them back, so if he had passports was just wondering if he would get away with it (sorry, bit of a hijack but along the lines of the thread)

how about it would just cause unnecessary trouble for everyone concerned gigglingoblin? They would be teaching the child to disrespect her mum's wishes - what kind of people would do that?

Skinnycow, dp and I pick up the kids from school two afternoons a week and have them overnight, take them to school in the morning (as well as having them every other weekend) so that BM can work. DP has to take time off work himself so that he can do this. They live in the next town and I don't drive but if I could I would pick them up and take them to school etc if it didn't interfere with my work.

Not all 'absent' parents are irresponsible, BTW, it wasn't dp's choice to be an absent parent, BM threw him out and moved her new boyfriend in. I really feel for your friend, her ex P sound like a total waste of space and she needs and deserves better, but you can?t tar all fathers with the same brush.

I agree that resident parents do have to deal with the day to day stuff but I know dp would love to be there for his kids everyday and do all of the day to day stuff, but he can?t and that is not his or his kids fault.

surfermum - isn't there a ferry (overnight?) you can get to Spain and then you could hire a car?

More hassle, perhaps, but at least you'd all be able to go on holiday.

squirrel - you obviously have a good thing with the childrens mum then. As I said I dont speak from experience but do listen my friends (that was one example). On the other side of the coin, my sister's dh has a 12 year old boy from another relationship and still has never had him overnight. He has fought for increased access and would love to take him on holiday and even have him stay over - they have a room for him where he can hang out when he comes to theirs. He wouldnt dream of causing problems at his home and respects (although doesnt always agree with) his ex. His ds knows that he is always welcome at his dads. My sister (the stepmom) never gets involved as she too understands that his ex is the mum and consequently does come higher up the scale than my sis.

good idea Avalon

Its a difficult call SF but not one I'd go to court over. I think that al you can do is explain to sdd that you are not able to take her and why. these situations are always so difficult as you want to give all the kids the best but are always having to compromise.

Am in a bit of a situation like that myself over Xmas as we are going to Ireland and dss doesnt want us to go. He will be spending Xmas with his mum anyway and we'll still have our usual Yule feast but he feels hes missing out as we are going away and hes not (He wouldnt see his dad on Xmas day anyway as we have no way of getting over to see him). Its all very difficult.

At last a sensible suggestion Avalon, why didn't anybody else think of that? Perfect solution!!!

Skinnycow, I agree whole heartedly that the child?s Mum is obviously more important than the Stepmum but the Dad is as important as the Mum surely? They are both parents.

Also what about the kids? What about their rights to have a loving stable relationship with both parents?

Speaking for ourselves (dp and I) we would never deliberately undermine BM, which at times can be very difficult (because we can't always agree with everybody else?s view can we?) but we do try to do everything we can to keep things running smoothly for the kids sake and I think that it should work both ways, the BM should show the same consideration too.

Surfermum. I don't think you should go to court because it will cause bad feeling and dsd will suffer, explore the Ferry idea, sounds like the ideal solution.

I really hope it works out well for everybody concerned.

Waht a brilliant suggestion Avalon Its certainly worth exploring it as an option SM.

skinnycow - i realise it would cause trouble and i wasnt suggesting it, i was asking a question cos i thought surfermum might know the answer. in answer to your question, my x is the sort of person who would do that and it worries me that he might one day disappear with the kids abroad. i did apologise for the hijack btw

tough one . i am the other side to this dilemma i am planning to take my dd1 on holiday along with my other 2 dds and am really looking forward to the experience with them, as they havent been abroad. it is selfish not to let her go with you but i can see why she wouldnt . it would break my heart if my dd3 father took her first but i know thats me being selfish,
sorry cant offer advice, just state that she didnt have any intention of going soon and if you went without her that would that make her just as angry???