Just need to talk this through, probably going to be a bit of a ramble.

[silverfrog]

I have two adult step children - aged 20 and 22.

Relations between dh and his ex have not always been harmonious (she was particularly fond of using the children as pawns, withholding contact etc. several court cases). dh has always paid well over the CSA rate for maintenance (not a whinge, just stating facts), as well as school fees, music tuition, now uni fees etc. As he should, and indeed wanted to.

He is now at a situation where it appears that the years of his ex bad mouthing him, bringing the childrne up to think they are disadvantaged, never letting them make planswith him - thye weren't allowed to bring friends over to his when they were younger, could never keep toys at his - you all know the kind of stuff I'm talking about - well anyway, it's all coming to a head for him.

Dh is increasingly feeling as though his relationship with his children is not very good. This really is not through lack of trying on his part.

They were never allowed to phone him, so he bought mobiles. Mobiles were always off or out of charge unless the children were with him, when of course they were fine so they could contact their mother (not that they ahdn't been able to before then!)

He got them a computer, to keep in email contact. It was never connected ot the phoneline - specifically the childrne had to ask for the cable - apperently to stop them running up huge bills, but dh paid for the second phone line, and didnt care (within reason!) what they did.

his ex would never let them make plans to do anyhting - eg a sports match, or a theatre trip - it was always "I'm not sure what we're doing", and of course, dh came the bottom of a very long list of people when it came to making plans.

This has all continued throughout their lives (dh and ex split when the children were 4 and 2), and is still going on, and dh is feeling as though he cannot take much more of it.

This Christmas, they came to stay with us for a day and a half. That's it. THey both have several weeks off uni, and have been spending a lot of time with their mother, so it is not a case of too busy for parents, but he had to chase and chase to get them to commit to even that.

After they had gone again (and travel time was taken off that day and a half) - time cut short because their mum wanted them home to help out with a dinner party she was having that evening - dh was very down.

He organised to see them, and they have gone away (yesterday and today) to talk about their relationship. He just desn't know what to do form here.

If this carries on, he can see a future ahead where he barely sees them. they only come now if he chases and chases.

I don't know what the purpose of this is - I suppose I could do with some ideas as to how to support him through this? but really, it's just to let it all out.

Life can be really shit sometimes.

My parents were divorced, and my father was crappy about it - no maintenance (led to a really shitty growing up for me, hom repossessed etc), no contact, nothing.

And now I'm married to someone who has childrne who think he acts in this way, when he has had regular contact (less than he wanted, as ex wouldn't let him see them more) always paid up as he should, is interested in them and everyhting they do, is supportive, but gets it all thrown back in his face.

thanks mj.

it's so hard, isn't it?

I don't know what to do either

I don't think dh is ready ot give up yet. and, of course, it wuld play right into her (and their) hands - she has been saying of ryears what a crap father he is, and if he gives up now, well, then she's right, isn't she?

it just feels as though they get in contact when they ned somethign.

in the day thet did spend here, one managed ot ask whether, if he didn't manage to get onto the final year of degree, it was ok to start again elsewhere (only asked as obvious cost implications, with tuition fee rises) - dh pays all fees and always has done.

the other wanted to know about extra funding for year abroad as part of degree.

and of course Christmas presents too (naturally). althoguh they both claimed they coudln't think of anyhting when asked. I mean honestly. what kind of child cannot be bothered to let their parent know what they want ofr christmas?! (it wasn't just a "I'll have a htink", it really did come across as not interested, can't be bothered to htink about it...)

I htink what dh is really bothered about, is that they have always been told he doesn't care, can't be bothered to see them, etc (and they believe this - as you know, when a child is told this often enough, they ignore the actual evidence before their eyes...), and so if he stops chasing, then he is scared that that is what they will think of him. tha teveryhitng their mother has said since dh & I got married (new family now, more children, to replace them, etc) is true. which couldn't be further form the truth.

oh, the uni fees is a whole other ball game, tbh.

that dc (being deliberatley vague here, not callous!) shouldn't really be at uni anyway - not academic, course not an academic one, but one where getting into the industry and working thier way up would be a better option.

but oh no. uni is available, as dh pays the fees (plus maintenance as living allowance), so uni it is. wouldn't wan tot miss out, now, eh? and now it is looking likely that what he thought all along (that dc wouldn't manage academically) is going to come true, and instead of facign p to that failure, apparently the way to go is to keep studying extra courses... as you say, wouldn't be happening if it was my child (mine are all young, but no way will similar be happening when thye are uni age)

yes, he accepts that as adults, a natural spearation would be happening anyway. except it isn't with their mother - they ar enot particularly mature, so still really at late teen stage. and that is what he is finding hard. that going back to their mum's for a dinner party is more important to them than spending time with him.

that seeing cousins more imortant that seeig him. that seeing ex's family is more important than seeign his family, etc.

think it came ot a head as one of them intro'd new partner this year (been going out for over ayear). dh met them for a hurried lunch. ex had them to stay for 5 days, over Christmas. and I think that set dh thinking - is this how it is alwyas going to be? what about once they are married, with families of their own? on that ratio, none of us will ever truly know them, their partners, their children. and that is sad.

He has tried stepping back - all that happens is silence until he chases again.

if he didn''t eventually chase, contact would all but cease, I htink. I htink all it owuld make them think is that he is now happy having fun with his "new family" (hate that expression)

that is what this contact is all about. they have gone off to ahotel, so he can talk it all through, and point some of this out to them.

hope it is all going ok...

well, that's the problem, isn't it?

I usspect they will both potest it isn't like that, he doesn't understand, mu needs them more , etc etc.

But action speak louder than words, don't they? and we have seen the younger one on 3 occasions this year - for 2 days at most each time.

there is no way, as a 20 year old, I would have treated anyone in that way, let alone someone who is funding my life (in fact, my uncle paid me a living allowance while I was at uni, to help me out and so that I didn't have to take loans out. he also lived abroad, and wa sin the uk for 90 max (non-dom rules). I saw him for longer periods of time than my step children see their own father)

THey probably do see him as a cash point. that's how their mother has always treated hm- good for picking up the bils, but not much else.

you are right re: counteracting the bitterness poured in by ther mother. but I think that is what needs ot happen (although it won't of course)

how an life end up so unfair?

I don't think they will realise even when they do have their own families.

they do totally see him as unimportant. one of their godfathers (actually, not even a godfather, just a family friend) gets more consideration that dh does.

one of them does interact with our dds, the other doesn't. just not interested.

honestly, it's all just such a mess.

Hi,

How sad but I think it's pretty common (Parental alienation syndrome). It's sad for the children - having a close bond with both parents is a good thing. I think your DH is doing the right thing - trying to have have a conversation about it, he needs to share how he feels. That's all he can do but he should remain hopeful that as they become adults they will realise what efforts he has made. Got to say I'm surprised he is paying for Uni - not sure many parents can do that so they should feel grateful. I agree however that he should not pay for an additional year - sadly the DC will not learn a lesson if dad steps in.

I see this with DP's children and it makes me very sad, but they are still tween/teenagers but your post doesn't give me a lot of hope for the future. DP thinks because he does so much for the children that they will see things for themselves in the future, but sometimes I wonder.

He phones them everyday, and sometimes they barely even grunt down the phone at him. Sometimes they do chat and you can see the happiness in him when that happens but 9 times out of 10, he just seems to talk to himself while they ignore him!

He too has bought them phones that they seem to have permanently glued to their person except for when DP phones them. They know how to use them to get him to run about after them though, although they can never say please or thank you and although their mother seems to encourage their lack of manners, I can't help thinking that DP could still pull them up on it himself.

DSD1 has just announced that she would rather be with her friends than come on a once in a lifetime holiday with us (her mother told her that a school trip was on the same week, when we have found out from the school that it isn't!).

Sometimes I feel the only reason we have the children so much is because their mother doesn't want them and wants a free babysitter. I wonder sometimes if the children see us as anything else.

And then there is my son who would be like a sponge to a bit of decent male role model but DP doesn't seem to want to know apart from what he "has" to do. I suppose he feels if he can't get any enthusiasm from his children, what is the point of trying with anyone else and I can understand that. DS even listed DP as "father" on facebook recently along with his own natural father and DP refused to discuss it with DS (at my suggestion) and simply deleted the request. Talk about a snub for a young man who wants to be part of his life.

Redhen, I?ve just read your post about your partner snubbing your son on Facebook, and I think that?s so cruel. From your earlier posts, your son sounds like a lovely child, and he really gets the thin end of the wedge in comparison to your partner?s children.

Silverfrog ? my husband has a 19yr old daughter who he hasn?t seen for nearly 4 years. He wouldn?t let her stay out late on school nights, a big argument blew up, the ex wife really fanned the flames, and as a result they?re now completely out of contact. For the first 18 months, DH tried desperately to patch things up, but his daughter still insists she won?t see him unless he ?apologises?. Thankfully, DH will not apologise, as he didn?t do anything wrong. But as time has gone on, he has accepted that, for the time being at least, his daughter is not part of his life. I suspect that once she?s been away from her mother?s influence for a few years (she started uni last September, and now lives away from home) things may change. But if they don?t, then I haven?t a clue how to proceed. Sometimes, sadly, you can only do so much.

Hi Petal - Redhen how awful but although this may sound like I am defending him - I am not - I do on some level understand how he feels. When my grown up son and my 2 DGDs stayed with us for a visit last year and then went back the house seemed so empty and quiet and I really felt so sad about how far away they live and how I cant see them on a casual daily or even weekly basis - just pop in or they visit me. Then my resident adult SS walked in and somehow the hairs on the back of my neck stood up even more than usual. So thats what I mean - when you are apart from and missing your own sometimes its even harder to accept someone elses and I know that sounds unreasonable and its not the stepchilds fault their stepparent cant see their own child/ren - but I am not defending that facebook snub he did or myself for that matter - just that on some level I can understand his behaviour but not condoning it.

I do see your point - but I bet you didn't treat your stepson unfavourably just because your children had gone back home. So whilst I can understand the mindset behind Redhen's partner's actions, I think he's being very unfair on Redhen, particuarly when she doesn't treat HIS children differently when HER son goes home.

It's that old double-standard again, and I don't know how to advise her.

Oh yes and no I didnt but I will admit I avoided contact with him more than usual - it almost seemed like the fact I couldnt have the people I love around me make me more resentful of having to have someone around me I didnt want to be. Am not condoning as I say and also not suggesting for one moment that Redhens son - much younger than my SS obviously - is in any way unsociable and selfish and rude and therefore an intrusive presence as my SS is.

This is one of them isnt it - where the more I say the bigger hole am digging myself. I'll shut up now sorry

DH sent our 2 a cheque each for Christmas (they asked for money).

Neither one has thanked him. He did not get a card from either of them.

He texted them on Christmsa Day and got vague replies on Boxing Day.

They aer both ignorant twats who use him as a cash point when they feel like it.

Bit like their mother really.

Quite Wkd they often are. Mine is to quote what his dad said to him ( yes even he has flashes of 20/20 vision ) 'your selfish like your mother'.

Shall I try and find a bolthole for us both to hide in before the 'real' mothers start circling or will you ?

How about a bottle hole (am waiting for lightening strike as we type!).

I have not even mentioned to DH that he has not got any cards this year. It just upsets him to admit that his flesh and blood are so ignorant. He did however get a card from substitute child (dog) and a card and a poem from other sub child (cat). And a prezzie. Actually 2 prezzies

Over compensation anyone????

Yeah I know - its one of the things I hate most about our situation - the fact that on top of all the angst HWSBM causes me and me and DHs relationship and on top of all the mess he makes and everything else what I hate the most is the utter piss taking of the man I love day in day out. I too do daft things to compensate as I really do feel genuinly sorry for my DH. HWSBM wont even go for a drink with his dad or even meet him out somewhere - they are both often out locally - even at Christmas etc he is just not interested. It would mean so so much to my DH and he does so much for his brat (quick to the bottlehole) son on a daily basis - he would breast feed him if he could ! My DHs dad died when DH was only 15 and he always says how he would have loved to have gone to the pub for a pint with him and thats why it would mean so much - but oh no Ive tried everything and so has his dad but selfish fucker he doesnt want to know.

Then one night we were out in our local and who walks in - he was out with his mates - and he scrounged £20 off his dad - then off he trotted refused a drink with his dad even then.

His older son often has a drink with DH btw - just twat other one that wont.

I can so sympathise and empathise with almost all of these posts.

It is almost like reading a story of our life.

My husband has 3 grown up children, who are selfish, thoughtless, and so blatant in their favouritism towards their mother (who spends her life practicing emotional blackmail, usually via facebook), and I hate watching my husband hurt.

My stepson isnt too bad, mainly due to his partner (who also is intensly disliked by ExWife), who makes an effort to send birthday cards, xmas presents and we did all go on holiday together along with granddaughter last year. Oh the hell that caused!!!... Exwife has threatened never to speak to son again if there is any repeat of that...

The girls are their mothers daughters to a tee, and will defend her no matter what she does. We now only have contact with one of them.

The final straw for me was before xmas. Eldest daughter got married. ExWife had full control and involvement. My husband got an invitation. So did I, but I refused to attend. Husband took his mother, and I stayed at home to look after her animals and ours (was a perfect excuse and I was so glad of it). Daughter was given away by her mother, mother did a speech, sister was bridesmaid, brother was an usher... my husband was sat on a table and ignored. Until it came to "oh dad, dont forget the money you are giving us for our honeymoon".

OK - am stepping into the Coliseum and waiting for the lions to attack - I prefer my dog and cat to the skids.

Least even with the cat she shows some real affection.

Last big blow up that we would not buy SS1 (nearly 20) a flat so he could move out from his mums - SS2 even yelling down the phone that we were ruining his life (they would have to share a bedroom)...... why couldn't we offer some financial support (DH signed over house, spousal and child maintenance, and when we got together he had nothing).

Eldest borrowed 2k for car insurance last year and has just started paying it back - at £10 a month.

I love my DH to bits - but his kids........... oy vay!

I definately prefer my dog to the stepkids, come to think of it, so does my husband!

Its really interesting reading your comments, but in a way I do understand where your SC are coming from too, as I suppose I am similar to them. My parents divorced when I was 3, and I lived with my mum. My dad always paid maintenance, & even paid me a very generous living allowance when I was at Uni. As a child I saw him once every 2 weeks, on a saturday.

Even though my dad was good at providing financially, I'm not that close to him at all, and feel that he isn't really that bothered - however reading your comments I'm starting to wonder if this is really the case or not. He still gives generous birthday presents, wants to meet up with us at christmas etc, and we have been to stay with him a couple of times (however in the last year or so he hasn't invited us again). He remarried 10 years ago, & has a lovely wife & step-kids that he appears to love & get on with better than he does me or my sister. He does regularly call me to chat though, and your posts have made me realise that actually I need to call him more often too, to show that I care about keeping our relationship going.

I think that spending time is more important than Dad's just giving money. I would also love it if my Dad offered to come & visit me & my husband, or said again that he would like us to visit, as he hasn't said this in a while & I'm not sure if it was an open invitation for ever or not.

OP - For your husband's children, their home is always going to be with their mum, she bought them up, and that is where they grew up. I think it is so hard to repair a broken relationship (I don't think the relationship I have with my dad will ever be repaired), but I suggest that you & your husband just keep persevering, inviting the kids to your house, offering to visit them for a weekend etc. If you don't keep trying, or just give up, the kids definitely won't come to your husband of their own free will, as this will signify to them that 'he just doesn't care, so there is no point trying' - I wonder if this is what happened with my dad.

As your SC grow up, they will realise that they want you & your husband in their lives - when they get married, have children etc. I think children of divorced parents always feel unloved by the parent that 'left', and you/your husband backing off will just confirm this to them.

OP - forgot to say, I think it is great that your husband is meeting with his children to discuss his worries, communication like this is so important!

From my husbands point of view, contacting them was, and still is difficult.

Their mother, and her current husband do anything they can to make it awkward.

Anything my husband says to his eldest daughter gets told to her mother, who then twists it around and makes it into some sort of problem as well as some "poor me, its all about me" posts on facebook. (We dont have her on FB but she puts in on the kids walls so that she knows he will see it.

On christmas day, none of them rang him. They spend the day at their mothers and she doesnt like them talking to him in her presence. If he rings them, she can be heard in the background slagging him off.

The last time eldest wanted to "come visit us" he looked forwards to it, only to find all she really wanted was a bed for two night for her and her boyfriend, while she went out to visit her mothers family who live in the area and her old schoolmates who she hadnt seen for a while. My husband suggested we have a family meal (no, havent got time).. or a few hours at the pub together (nah, got to meet someone else).

Hi I'd like to join in if I may - I have been keeping an eye on this thread since it started. It's reassuring (yet sad) to hear stories which reflect my life.

A little background - my DH has 3 DDs - all in their late teens/early twenties. Together we also have DC.

The DSC lived with us for the whole of our relationship (12 yrs) whilst having regular contact (2 nights a week) with their mother who lives close by.

I'm not going to pretend being a SM is easy but because the love I have for my DH it is totally worth it. I believe I have mostly been a supportive and loving SM.

The middle DSD moved out when she was 16 because we refused to allow her boyfriend to stay at our house. She treatened to move out and we called her bluff - we were not prepared to be blackmailed. Since then contact has been sporadic (although it's getting a little better) and she has ignored numerous birthdays, Father's days etc.

The eldest DSD left 18 months ago as she wrecked the house with a party while we were away. We had about £1000 worth of damage. Anyway the thing that really caused problems wwas her attitude - she refused to apologise or even help clear up. She was annoyed that we were mad at her for having a party as according to her 'it MY house aswell I can do what I like'. Silly silly girl!

Anyway, she walked out. And never came back. and we've only seen her a handful of times - the last being on her birthday in August when she collected her gifts then buggered off. We haven't seen her over Christmas.

My DH doesn't know what to do. The drama the DCs cause is exhausting. He texts them (they seem unable answer their phones and have an actual conversation) and they ignore him. He text them all on Christmas morning and the eldest replied at midnight saying something along the lines of 'am surprised you remembered you had another DD'. She did, however, message the next day to apoloise for that - she was tired. My DH simply says 'it's ok I understand' which I think may be the reason why they treat him this way as there are never any consequences.

Got to say despite the inevitable ups and downs that come with in a step-family - I never thought it would end up like this as fundamentally they are good kids - but people that are happy to hold grudges and punish the one person who has been the only constant in their lives.

Sorry it's so long but, God, it feels good to get it all off my chest.