Just need to talk this through, probably going to be a bit of a ramble.

[silverfrog]

I have two adult step children - aged 20 and 22.

Relations between dh and his ex have not always been harmonious (she was particularly fond of using the children as pawns, withholding contact etc. several court cases). dh has always paid well over the CSA rate for maintenance (not a whinge, just stating facts), as well as school fees, music tuition, now uni fees etc. As he should, and indeed wanted to.

He is now at a situation where it appears that the years of his ex bad mouthing him, bringing the childrne up to think they are disadvantaged, never letting them make planswith him - thye weren't allowed to bring friends over to his when they were younger, could never keep toys at his - you all know the kind of stuff I'm talking about - well anyway, it's all coming to a head for him.

Dh is increasingly feeling as though his relationship with his children is not very good. This really is not through lack of trying on his part.

They were never allowed to phone him, so he bought mobiles. Mobiles were always off or out of charge unless the children were with him, when of course they were fine so they could contact their mother (not that they ahdn't been able to before then!)

He got them a computer, to keep in email contact. It was never connected ot the phoneline - specifically the childrne had to ask for the cable - apperently to stop them running up huge bills, but dh paid for the second phone line, and didnt care (within reason!) what they did.

his ex would never let them make plans to do anyhting - eg a sports match, or a theatre trip - it was always "I'm not sure what we're doing", and of course, dh came the bottom of a very long list of people when it came to making plans.

This has all continued throughout their lives (dh and ex split when the children were 4 and 2), and is still going on, and dh is feeling as though he cannot take much more of it.

This Christmas, they came to stay with us for a day and a half. That's it. THey both have several weeks off uni, and have been spending a lot of time with their mother, so it is not a case of too busy for parents, but he had to chase and chase to get them to commit to even that.

After they had gone again (and travel time was taken off that day and a half) - time cut short because their mum wanted them home to help out with a dinner party she was having that evening - dh was very down.

He organised to see them, and they have gone away (yesterday and today) to talk about their relationship. He just desn't know what to do form here.

If this carries on, he can see a future ahead where he barely sees them. they only come now if he chases and chases.

I don't know what the purpose of this is - I suppose I could do with some ideas as to how to support him through this? but really, it's just to let it all out.

Life can be really shit sometimes.

My parents were divorced, and my father was crappy about it - no maintenance (led to a really shitty growing up for me, hom repossessed etc), no contact, nothing.

And now I'm married to someone who has childrne who think he acts in this way, when he has had regular contact (less than he wanted, as ex wouldn't let him see them more) always paid up as he should, is interested in them and everyhting they do, is supportive, but gets it all thrown back in his face.

thanks to everyone who replied, and added their own stories and situations.

It's one of those times when it is good to know it's not just us (as in dh & me) feelign htis way (although I wouldn't wish this situation on anyone!)

well, the talks went well apparently. some good points made on both sides, and everyone listened.

all well and good.

BUT (there had to be one, didn't there?)

that was Monday. Dh offered to take the elder one back to uni this weekend, both because he wanted to and as a favour as his ex is currently not well, and shouldn't be driving to much.

he heard nothing.

and more nothing.

on Thursday, the phonecall came - yes please.

so dh said ok (well, alongside the "thanks for the short notice") but he would have ot collect on Friday evening (worked for him, as he was over that way, so they could set off in good time today). for various reasons, he needed ot be at home this morning, not fetching and carrying half way around the country.

yesterday I called dh to see what time they would be home in the evening.

plans had changed

dc not coming down that evening as busy - dh having to go this mornign to collect instead.

so that's the whole weekend written off - dh had to stay here htis morning, so could only set off after lunch, to get dc (100 miles the wrong way) then trawl all the way back and on to uni (another 150 miles).

the lift is fine - dh happy to do that. it's the planning and execution that isn't.

on top of that, we have had zero response to asking for dates for summer holiday (remember, ths is following on, in the same week, form the children protestign that they really do want ot see more of dh, and promising to make an effort). we are totally flexible, all we need to know is when to book.

honestly, what is the point?

Hi Silverfrog - it sounds like the get together had some positive points which were then spoilt by the Uni issue. Such a shame that some (not all) young people can be so inconsiderate. I don't understand how so many have an 'it's-all-about-me' and 'screw-everybody-else' attitude.

I don't want to sound bitter but it's really hard with DSC when things go wrong because you don't have (or at least I don't) that maternal love which somehow makes things ok and easier to forgive. All I am left with is an empty feeling of resentment for the pain caused to my DH and our DC.

mj, yes I know, and we will.

I think it has hit dh hard though, especially coming in the same week as protestations that they do want to see him more, and having talked it all, iyswim?

really does look like it was all talk, doesn't it? actions speak louder than words and all that...

I would contact them and say you are going to book it by the weekend or whatever and if they dont contact you before then you will presume such and such a date - whichever one you decide is best for you if they werent in the equation IYSWIM - is ok. If you fear that they may then later say they cant come on those dates resulting in you having wasted money then the other alternative would be to contact them and say you have to book it by Friday or whatever and if they want to still come then they have to let you know by then.

Oggy I can so relate to your post - it is always hard without the 'buffer zone' of unconditional love that one has for ones own children. Someone elses being little shits are just well..little shits !! My DH and am sure most other natural parents can never understand or choose not to more like ! that other peoples children are always going to be much more intrusive than your own. Him having his adult son around him probably enhances his life mostly - it is detrimental to mine.

I understand that "the welcome mat must always be there" but sometimes, I think, these kids just get more indifferent when "daddy" tries so hard!

My DH has 3. They are not really step kids to me as two of them are at uni. They have their own lives; they're busy, independent and well rounded individuals. My DH has always been a good provider for them financially, above and beyond the usual rates; their mum has a mortgage free home (we have a big mortgage - that's just how it is) because he wanted to provide security for his kids.

Should say, his ex-wife had a 2+ year affair and my DH was devastated. Tried to sort things out but she carried on seeing the guy. Then, his ex was on her own for a long time and would have returned to my DH had she had the opportunity. I came on the scene 4 yrs later and we are now very, very happily married. My point is, no matter what he does for his kids, there's always this element of them "visiting" cause they HAVE to. Mostly,the youngest (17). He transports them to and from uni and he is happy to do that (and I am too cause it makes him happy). He looks forward to their coming over each week but, and this is especially true of the youngest, it seems grudging. There are times when he arrives to collect her and she sends him home cause she's doing something and he'll go get her again later. I've done my best to make her welcome but she mostly ignores me (and her dad at times) and it really pisses me off.

I don't go with the "it's a teenager thing" because I know that she's like this generally, feels hard done by and just seems full of disdain for anything we attempt to do with or for her. Over Christmas, it did upset my husband (and by association, me).

I know that their natural home is with mum. So does my husband but really, it does annoy me. My husband just says they're growing up and moving away and he expects to see less and less of them but at the moment, it feels more like they're punishing him for having moved on a bit with his life. My DH says that the most important thing is our relationship and as long as the situation doesn't affect that, then he's ok. But, is he?

I've had to battle for basic maintenance from my ex. He sees his son every other weekend. It's what I call the standard divorced dad procedure. My DH on the other hand has worked hard at maintaining a good, loving relationship with his 3 and apart form his eldest, the other two appear quite indifferent to it.

Am I being unreasonable? I never pass comment usually, though did mention it after Christmas. The youngest does resent dad having remarried and I feel this is so unreasonable considering the events surrounding their mother's affair and how utterly decent their dad has been since.

How true, how true!!

I can't say too much but know that my DH's ex is somewhat emotionally fragile and not a "coper".

I know that she relied heavily (and still does) on their extensive support in a way that a mother ought not to really.....as in, "who is the adult here?"

I think they feel that dad abandoned them to mum's ultimate unhappiness when it dawned on her how stupid she's been and how much she's lost.

Sound familiar?