I was only spending a penny .......... bad start to access weekend

[Petal02]

Stepson arrived tonight for his access weekend, he's here til Sunday night. He usually arrives around 6.30pm. I got home around 5.45pm, and went to spend a penny in our downstairs loo. I was alone in the house at this point. The toilet door was pushed too, not quite shut completely, but pushed as far as possible into the frame without being completely shut (if that makes sense).

Anyway, husband and stepson arrive at the house earlier than usual. I'm still in the loo, at the far end of the hall, with the door almost completely shut, and I am not visible to either husband or step son.

I shouted 'hello' (silly, silly me .....) at which point husband hurtles down the hall, grabs the loo door and slams it shut. Which was a bit of a surprise cos I've now finished my wee and was just about to exit the loo.

When I challenged husband, he gets really cross and says I shouldn't go to the loo with the door open, when SS is in the house ..... in my defence, I was alone in the house when I entered the loo, but even when they came in, the door was shut sufficiently not to embarass anyone, and also (for gods sake) is a 16yr old boy really going to be damaged by knowing his father's wife has a bladder???? The child has a mother and sister, who probably also use the toilet ........

So a huge row errupted, I asked if perhaps I shouldn't permit bodily functions when The Messiah is in the building (which didn't go down to well) and I've now promised to limit my DISGUSTING habits to the en-suite with the door locked.

I'm not asking for advice, i really don't think there's an answer that exists. But don't you think my husband was being just a tad over-protective? This sort of madness only perpetuates ill feeling between me and stepson.

Allnew - thank you so much, that's EXACTLY how it is. It's so comforting that someone understands. You've hit the nail on the head, when you say that SS should be treated as part of the household, rather than a VIP visitor. I've tried to explain this to my husband before: some years ago, the Queen visited my place of work. Obviously, the entire place ground to halt, and to be honest it was quite nice to get back to normal afterwards. No offence to the HRH, but it caused a lot of disruption. And that's precisely how access weekends operate sometimes.

Even though he's 16, there are still so many things we not allowed to do on an access weekend, as its supposed to be a special visit. If these visits only happened occasionally, it wouldn't matter, but when it's Thurs-Sun EOW, the 'lost time' can be a real problem. Imagine if the Queen visited work every other week, we'd never get anything done!! A while ago, husband was going to take my car to be serviced, but then decided not to because it was an access weekend - I could cite countless similar examples, where normality is suspended for the duration of the visit. A few weeks ago we had to delay painting the landing, due to it being an access weekend.

I should add that SS never asks or expects for any of this. My husband is a very decent guy, who tries to do the very best by his son, but I feel he tries so hard that it actually creates an artificial situation that benefits no one.

So much 'normal stuff' has to be suspended during access weekends, and the toilet incident felt like a step too far. Thank you so much for understanding.

I've managed to talk DH into doing some decorating tomorrow when the DSCs are here. He agreed, but it will be the first time it's happened.

The way I've tried explaining it to him on various occasions is that if the DSCs never see anything normal happening on weekends, then it's going to give them a very odd example of what adult, and family life, is like. Most things are learned by seeing, and if the DSCs never see the adults in the house doing normal things like stripping/painting a wall/fixing a shelf etc etc then they'll never learn how to do anything. Also it's teaching them to be entertained on a permanent basis, which doesn't make for a very independent/able adult

Well on top of it being an access weekend I also now have the MIL visiting - good lord, it's enough to make me want a strong drink

My sympathies Petal; we had DP's DCs over for a 2 week holiday. we live in France so DP doesn't see his DCs that often. I know that he was bending over backwards to make sure they had the best time, even though for the entire first week, it was " we want to go home" (this was within 5 minutes of arriving from the airport). I was 7 mths pregnant and exhausted from cooking meals and dealing with the general fussiness.

I got slagged off by DP for not "joining in enough", and when I asked please could the DSC's & DP turn down their computers (3 in one room) so that i could have an afternoon nap, his response was " they are just being kids". I can see that up to a point, but DP felt there was no need to make allowances for me, so long as he could be a great Dad for those 2 weeks. we def had a couple of bad rowss during that time, as I was really at the end of my tether, and although DP was aswell, he would rather take it out on me than on his DC's.

Anyway, I have decided that next year when they descend, my new baby & I will be having a nice vacation at my parent's in the UK.

(sorry for hijack of thread, but you really have my sympathies....)

Hi Petal02,
I also thing its a bit crazy really, if your SS was your own, your DH would have handled this a lot differently, that is your house and you can do what you like. Just think how different the situation would have been if he had called you a "silly mare" and laughed with your SS. When we were growing up our family were always bursting in on each other when we forgot to lock the loo door or something and we just laughed.
It just sounds like a huge misunderstanding which has got out of hand as if your house if anything like ours on an access weekend everyone is treading on egg shells around each other all the time.
Don't worry sweetie I'm sure it will all calm down, hope you guys can sort it soon.
xx

Allnew ? I was interested that it?s not just our household where reality has to be suspended on access weekends. It?s very frustrating. I agree totally with your point that such sanitised weekends are not good for the step children.

Romilly ? you deserve a medal!!! After two weeks with your step children, I dread to think was your blood pressure was like.

Husband and I have agreed to differ over this incident, and peace has been restored, although it didn?t make for a very comfortable weekend. I just want to reiterate that my husband?s a really lovely guy, who has his son?s very best interests at heart, but he loses sight of the bigger picture sometimes.

Allnew I agreee with every single word you said! We have my DSC half the time and that time includes Saturday one week and Saturday and Sunday the next week. (This was DH ex idea!) This means we never have a whole weekend to ourselves and only have every other Sunday to do normal stuff around the house - as my DH wants to spend all the time the kids are here entertaining them. I have given up saying all that stuff about how they don't see any of normal life as none of it happens here when they are with us and I'm pretty sure it's the same at their Mums house. It just makes me even more cross if I say it and nothing changes. It means we rarely get any time to do stuff just as a couple and it seems obvious to me that I'd have to be a much better person than I am to not resent that! They will grow up not having a clue about all the things involved in actually running a house and surely that can't be right.

Hi glasscompletelybroken - it's somewhat comforting to know that these issues are relatively common. The good think about here is having a place to air these issues. I find that in real life I can't really speak about them. It's hard to talk to DH about them without things getting into a row, and I find that friends etc. have so little clue about what it's like to be part of a step-family that I can't really discuss these things.

I find the other thing is that DSCs aren't expected to do any household chores at our house either, and DH is reluctant to say much. For example my teenage DSS just leaves his bed unmade, leaves his dirty plate on the dining table etc. and never lifts a finger. If it was my own child of that age living with me, I would be expecting, and insisting on, a much bigger contribution.

Tbh I really do think that my DSS will have trouble ever becoming a fully functional, even semi-independent adult. My recent fear is that DSS ever wants to move in with us when he's older. The idea of having a adult living in our house, in whose upbringing/manners etc. I have had no input whatsoever, is frightening.

ALlnew - my stepson doesn't do any chores either. My husband wouldn't dream of asking him to make his bed or pick his clothes up off the floor. The only meal he can prepare is pouring milk onto coco-pops and I've never seen him make tea or coffee.

He has recently started 'working' (I use that term loosely) with my husband on a Saturday morning. Husband is a builder, however it's hardly preparation for real life, as husband goes out to work as usual in the morning (minus stepson, cos he's still asleep), then when stepson wakes up, he texts husband, who returns home to collect him, and THEN he starts 'work.' Not the sort of timekeeping that would keep him employed in today's construction industry.

I can't picture him ever being prepared for higher education or employment. He's 16 now, and I really think we're doing him a disservice with our lack of guidance and preparation.

Allnew - I know what you mean about people not understanding. it's hard to say you don't want to spend every weekend with your DSC without sounding like a horrible person. My DSC are still quite young but at their age my own DC were doing quite a lot of "chores" including stripping their own beds. I don't think my DSC even know that happens! They never put anything away but go around the house getting one thing out after another and just leavibg it all where it falls. I tell my DH that if they don't get into the habit of helping now there is no way they will suddenly start when they are teenagers! ha ha ha - laughing at my own joke now, teenagers helping ha ha ha (falls off chair)...

Yes, if you admit to finding your step children hard work, people tend to think you're being horrible. It's a tricky situation. Thank heavens for forums like this!!

Hi Slimbo, I recall that when we first lived together, husband didn't like it if I invited my friends or family over when it was an access weekened, just in case stepson didn't like it. And it got really silly. Things have relaxed in that respect now, but husband still prefers it if we don't make plans on these weekends.

In some respects I feel sorry for my husband, it must be awful to feel so insecure about your relationship with your child, that you have to go to such lengths.

Hi Petal (am following you around today !}PMSL at 'the Messiah' - Might rename my DSS that instead of his current 'in heat of the moment' title of Little Lord Fontleroy.

On a more serious note - and I hope this doesnt sound like am sticking up for your DH - I actually have an issue with this with my adult DSS. He has a downstairs bedroom - with en suite - his doors in a corner just off the kitchen (IYSWIM). He comes in goes into his room leaving door open then goes to his loo without shutting himself in there either and proceeds to piss ( complete with all the groans of relief - lovely !!) - I go beserk as I just find it disgusting to be able to hear him in my kitchen ffs and I always slam his bedroom door shut when he does it.

But in your defence I think in your instance it was very different - I'm sure you wouldnt wee audibly with two doors open between you and a kitchen. You didnt do it deliberately you got caught short alone in house - I think I would have gone mad as its the minute they walked through the door ffs and sometimes it feels like they {DHs} almost dont want you to get on !!

Hi Suda - no offence taken! I'm a very private person by nature, and husband often humours me about this (in a kind way). Which only makes the whole incident even more infuriating, because when we're alone I'm considered amusingly Victorian, yet the minute SS arrives in the door, my habits are deemed inappropriate !!!!!! None of this endears me to stepson.

I have to say that your SS's habits sound utterly gross, does he expect to find a wife one day????

thats my worst fear Petal - that he wont and yours truly will be stuck with him for life.

You know what - pisses me off about it (no pun intended) its the total lack of chivalry and respect towards me - like - its only her she's nobody. He goes to his grans for Sunday dinner for example and she is quite proper and I just know for a fact that he never ever would dream of doing that there - or if anyone else is here he does shut his door - just complete lack of respect and it seems specific to me. He does it when his dads around but its different dont you think - men stand at side of each other at urinals etc. Another thing he'll do which - actually sorry this is a stick up < hijacks > is comes out of his bedroom/en suite when he's had a shower with a towel tied round his waist and walks round makes a brew watches bit of telly etc then goes back in room to get dressed.?? I find that so inappropriate - and the towel is really low IYSWIM - more round his loins than his waist - as if it could drop off any second. What gets me is there is no reason for him to do this - he has obviously dried himself - so why not get dressed before coming out instead of few minutes later - its like he's making a point almost.

goes off trolley bashing thinking about DSS's head and feeling awful for hijacking Petals post

just a thought but sometimes do you think because we go on about SCs behaviour or habits etc that the minute we put a little foot wrong they pounce- just a thought re your OP. As if to say - well your just as bad - I mean my SS breaks stuff for fun - everything he bloody touches but when I do my average of once or twice a year breakage my DH absolutely pounces on it and laughs at me saying - 'pot and kettle' etc.

Grrrrrr.....

Suda - do you think that your DSS is subtley, or actually not-very subtely at all, trying to make you feel threatened in some way? I don't mean actually trying to scare you, I mean in some way marking his territory and presence in a way that is almost deliberately intruding on your privacy and making you feel uncomfortable

It does sound that way - no way is it appropriate for him to wander round in low slung towel - yuck!

You have my sympathies Suda. My SS is actually a nice lad, and I can't fault his attitude towards me - it's husband who creates the problems with his 'lioness/cub' routine. I think you raise an interesting point though - due to my challenging the Disneyland Dad stance, it makes husband extra defensive, so even if I commitment the tiniest 'offence', I'm immediately in bad books, whereas SS can do no wrong. Again, not SS's fault, but it does make me feel resentful.

I hope I'm not speaking out of turn, but your SS sounds like a real slob, and I think you deserve a medal for tolerating things for so long. Has it turned you to drink yet????

PETAL - No not yet . and dont worry - you can talk out of turn all you like about that one and I think my point about the tit for tat defensiveness is useful one to remember because its one of them knowledge is power things and sometimes when something really shit happens like your OP story and you can see no light at end it helps a lot to see it for what it is and not just a case of you and DH being poles apart and feeling hopeless. Now I've identified it if I do break/drop/lose something and DH goes off on a smug one I just throw him a bemused look and say something like - Oh I see what youre trying to do - because Ive lost my keys for the second time in my life I'm as irresponsible and chaotic as your DS whose on what ? - his fourth set of house keys and third set of car keys in three years - Oh I see (very sarcastically). DH hates it that I know whats going on 9 to be fair I honestly think they dont even realise theyre doing it sometimes )and it stops him doing it to an extent.

Allnew - thats a brilliant theory - and very interesting cos I often think this behaviour is almost his way of saying - this is my territory - like he's in his own house and I'm the lodger/visitor - he's just too comfortable iyswim. Now l know many NPs might flame me now and say well it is his home why shouldnt he feel comfortable - and l certainly dont want him to feel uncomfortable but l think you can be too comfortable - and walking round like that and peeing through an open door within earshot etc is tooo comfortable.

Think i need to go to assertiveness classes - cos if I do say something its angry or arsey as Ive let it stew until I cant hold it in - like for example with the low slung towel I'll just give him filthy looks as I make a sharp huffy exit out of the room complete with door slam etc. I wish I could just calmly say something but I just know DH doesnt see a problem with it cos have mentioned it once in passing and he said - well you see lads walking round in shorts or builders with their arses hanging out - he's just as much covered up - whats the problem ? He just takes it as yet another problem I have with his DS. So I know he would absolutely flame me if I did say something to DSS for embarrassing him which is ironic really.
Then if I say I find it embarrassing - what if his towel fell off - and DH will just say well thats his problem he would be more embarrassed than you. I just dont think these men get things sometimes - any men around on here at moment would be interested to hear your perspective !

Suda: You wanted a man perspective? Well excuse my bluntness (and this probably applies to Petal02 too). I didn't really want to post because I feel I am somewhere 100% polar opposite on views to yourselves :)

First, I accept being a step parent is not easy. It is not easy having some other child around, harder if they are an adult (I mean they are not your own).

Second,

when I read your posts, I have the impression of - And it's an impression on the various posts. Apologies if inaccurate, its just a perspective of vague reading.

: Hate the DSC
: Resent the DSC
: It's my house and they are a visitor only
: Can't wait for them to leave
: Wish they didn't always come round, can't they go somewhere else.
: They are ruining my time and life with my DH

I say the above, because it is what I read in your posts. I suspect you give of similar vibes in real life. I am not arguing if you are right or wrong, I am purely saying this in my perspective.

Now Dad who sees his kid 2 days in 14 ? You say don't make it special, make it normal. If your DH was away working 12 out of 14 days, and came back every 2 weeks for 2 days, how would you want it to be? Mundane boring, do your own things, or want to spend more quality time. Add to that it is a lot harder to nag nag nag for two days and expect someone to want to return for more nag nag nag. I know when my DS is away, and he returns, and if I start to "tell him off" I regret it thinking couldn't I have laid of for a while or did I need to do it that way.

Having said all that, I suspect a lot of the problems here are to do with your attitudes and vibes your DH perceives, and your DH in a defensive mode over HIS rights and feelings not so much his DSC (though it may appear so).

Suda: the towel thing, well to me it's just plain wrong behaviour from your DH and DSC. Was it allnew? who said territory? From the DSC I think it is just that. And I think its bad behaviour. And he is old enough to know that. And your DH should be doing something. I mean while I always wish the parent house should be the child's as well, it is your house too!!!

But like I said, I suspect it's more underlying than that. I would imagine that if your DSC was drinking paint stripper, and you said don't, your DH would say don't stop my poor child. But I don't think it's a defence of the "poor child's rights", but a defence reaction to your feelings or more to the point, a reaction to how your DH feels YOU feel about his child. Unfortunately it is one of those cycles, you resent, he defends, you resent more, he defends more, anything you say regardless of merit is taken as an attack on his DC being there in his life ...... if you see what I mean.

The other part of the problem is , it's probably too late for him to fix (and he knows it). If he now takes on a critics role, he "validates" your view, which from his perspective is about dislike of his child. So combined with above he makes light of it, to sweep it under the carpet.

I don't have an answer, but you asked for an opinion.

Who had the toilet door open issue, Petal02? I wonder if your DH dislikes that idea altogether? Perhaps it simmers under the skin. "Why don't you *** close the door, what if someone came in the house, do you expect me to check all the toilet doorss" type of simmering. The son being present was just a trigger, and his feelings were not really the point. Sometimes when everyone has focused on a single point (DH defending DSC, You resenting DSC) every issue revolves around them??? Just wondering, because once again it does seem somewhat of an over reaction on his part, and yours somewhat - though completely justified and understandable.

whoa long post, rambling once again, apologies to anyone reading

Wildfish ? it?s really interesting to get a male perspective.

Before I respond, can I just point out one tiny detail? I wasn?t using the loo with the door open, the door was pushed to, as far as possible into the frame without actually being shut, the doorway was completely obscured by the door, and I was not visible to anyone in the hallway. I didn?t want you to think that I go to the loo with the door open, thus giving DH something to get cross about, regardless of whether SS was in the house or not.

You do make some interesting points. That a father who only sees his child EOW wants to make the best of that time. I can understand that. However the flipside to this, is that the father?s new wife/partner, then effectively ?loses? 50% of her weekends. And the stepchild would generally be more welcome if each access weekend wasn?t treated like a royal visit, with life grinding to a halt. That?s generally my gripe ? not the child himself, but the fact that reality is suspended as soon as he walks in the door.

You?re also correct about negative cycles. One person criticises, the other gets defensive, which leads to more criticism and then more defensiveness.

My husband summed all this up some time ago ? he?s the first to admit that access weekends don?t seem to work for many families. It?s not ideal for the bio parent, it?s not ideal for the step parent, and not brilliant either for the child. But, like me, he has no better ideas. He said that following the break-up of his first marriage, he?s left with a son he wants to do the best for, but also he wants a new life post-divorce, and realises that it?s hard to fit the two together. In an ideal world, parents wouldn?t split up so there?d be no need for patchwork families and access weekends, but real life isn?t like that.

In Suda?s case ? I think her husband simply takes the line of least resistance with this son, for the sake of a quiet life. But fails to realise how much distress this causes Suda. Her stepson sounds quite devoid of manners. It?s great to be comfortable in your own home, but surely there are some basic standards of decency to observe when other people are present? I mean, I wouldn?t expect my husband to pick his feet/nose/bottom in front of me. But it sounds like the negative cycle exists in her home too, which is why it never gets resolved. I?ve said before ? I think Suda deserves a medal.

WILDFISH - thank you so much - well I did ask ! . No but seriously I did think at first you were just going to flame us throughout - but to be honest I did take your initial comments about giving off bad vibes creates more etc etc on the chin - I do admit it has become like that - so fair comment. Can I just point out that my SS lives with us 24/7 - never stays with mother who lives away - so your point about making it special being a natural desire after a week or fortnight apart doesnt really apply to my situation.

I think your insight into why my DH behaves as he does - belittling my complaints - downplaying DSs behaviour is brilliant and you have hit the nail on the head. He always makes me feel that whatever I object to - no matter how objectionable it is - I am just confirming not liking his son around IYSWIM.

I think that maybe - the pick your battles - advice that someone gave on here once in a SC situation is probably the best. That I suppose might reduce the NPs defensiveness if they are not being constantly bombarded with complaints about their DC - however justified.

Also I agree about DH knowing deep down how bad his son is but I think he also knows its too late to change him - so what can he do other than defend him ? I agree that he's embarrassed by him.

Thank you so much - I do think a lot of my problems stem from me aswell - lack of assertiveness - isnt that all about ability to complain without being inflammatory etc etc ? - which I struggle with especially in face of DHs defensiveness - its like I have to make a big deal of something to have my complaint taken seriously as I just know from experience its probably going to be dismissed - so I overstate it - which is inflammatory I suppose - sorry cant explain what I mean really. !!.

Example - a friend of mine who is very assertive and no-nonsense walked in my house one day and DSS had his feet up on settee - made no attempt to accommodate her sitting down - she just stood over him ,clicked her fingers and said "excuse me,shift !! " in a jokey way and so confident was she that he would (he did straight away !) that she didnt even look at him and proceeded to sit where his feet would still have been had he not moved ! It was very powerful yet very matter of fact and dismissive IYKWIM.

I just thought WOW - wish I could be like that. If it were me I would have perched
on the edge and just hoped he moved and silently stewed then had a go at DH about his sons manners when he came in and then we would have rowed and blah blah blah blah !!!

Petal - thank you once again - you are so supportive and you are so right about the quiet life theory - I often think that - have caught DH hiding evidence of DSs bad habits/misdemeanours many a time - when I challenge him and say - Why oh why are you cleaning that up for him etc - he just says - well I didnt want you to start !

Suda:

Your friend has a skill what I'd like to be able to do to :)

I admit my position is heavily biased towards the child (I have a 6 year old). My bias is on - its not the child's fault the situation is so messed up ... etc etc.

I also acknowledge a step parent's role is complicated and difficult for a whole range of reasons. Can't even attempt to summarise.

---

24x7 : An adult too. A badly behaved adult too. No quick solution here. Ouch

It is perhaps hard for you to see it from this viewpoint, but from your DH I am sure he sees his boy (bad as he is) as a child. And with your own child it is very hard to give up on them. He probably feels there is hope. Maybe damaged from the separation/divorce. Maybe something he did bringing him up. Perhaps maybe etc ...... Not being critical at all here, you obviously see this child as an adult :)
I think it is similar to where in the news you see the parent(s) of a killer defending him, protecting him, while all we think is "animal" and why are they standing by him. (simplification)

Pick your battles: It's probably the best thing you can do in life in general. Certainly very applicable when dealing with "children". But the key thing for YOU and YOUR sanity is to let things pass over you. To instantly dismiss things from your mind and not mull over them or fester - this is key for you. More important issues you bring up. Others you ignore - perhaps like cleaning up - let it pass without thought. Other behaviour you pull up on.
So easy to say but I find (when you can do it) it changes your life and how your life is.

I understand that you may overstate it, perhaps hoping to break that wall of your DH "unable to understand". Like I said I think he does understand, but as you realise inflaming the conversation results in automatic defences being put up and a fight starting for the wrong reasons.

This may not make sense, but from what you say, I get the impression your DH is standing in the middle. I don't know if this would work, I think it would if I was there, but if you can pick the battles, stand by your DH, support him, and drop the "perception of hating his child", then he might be able to do something about those things you make a point on. When I say "perception of hating child" I mean his perception on your views. And when I say he might be able to do something, I mean that he would feel free to do so, because he doesn't need to defend his child being hated by you. ..... does that make sense?

Petal02: Just realised this is your thread being hijacked :)

On the door open, not locked, I understand. What I was trying to say it seems like a reaction simmering over or over something else, but pinned on that and the DSC being there.

Yep and I understand that about the 50% loss. I do understand it, I am a person that likes his space too. My child doesn't invade my space, but I think I can relate to another person present loses you that space and time. And yes the whole thing is a big mess about access, eow, rotating weeks, alternate days or whatever scheme is thought up .......

Like I said to Suda, I take a simplisitc view and am biased towards the child.

Parents are grown up, and they made this mess - so tough luck to them.
Step parents are grown up, and they chose to enter this environment. However I don't think many appreciate what they are entering in :), so tough luck too
The travelling child, is the one paying the price in many ways. From having a moving home, or being away from home, or having differing standards, or not being disciplined right, or being unwelcome (kids can sense more than adults care to admit), to well many many complications.
Even the child in the home who is resident (be that step parent+parent or other child), I feel has a better place - they have a home 24x7, even if for a few days someone else gets special treatment.

Hence my bias.

I don't think there is a single solution for everyone. But the one I think comes across as a very good tip - pick your battles, and let other things just go. It makes a big difference.