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Do you have questions on the special educational needs and disability (SEND) Review? Ask Minister for Children and Families, Will Quince MP

129 replies

GraceEMumsnet · 26/04/2022 14:40

Created for Department for Education

The Department for Education is seeking views on the changes they want to make to the special educational needs and disabilities (SEND) and alternative provision (AP) system in England. For further information visit SEND Review.

Read below for Will Quince's answers to some of your questions.

About Will Quince MP:

“Will Quince is the MP for Colchester and was appointed as a Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Department for Education on 16 September 2021. As Minister for children and families, his responsibilities include children’s social care, families, children in care, children in need, child protection, adoption and care leavers, early years, special educational needs including high needs funding, alternative provision and vulnerable children.”

Here’s what DfE has to say:

“We have listened to many children, young people, parents, teachers and those who work for and advocate for children with special educational needs and disabilities, to ensure our proposals were shaped by those who work within the system and those who should benefit from it. However, it is critical that we hear from even more people to gain invaluable feedback and expertise from a wide range of perspectives before final decisions are made. Our public consultation is open until the 1st of July, and we want everyone to have their say and help to shape the future of the system. For further information visit: http://sendreview.campaign.gov.uk

Thanks, MNHQ!

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Onceuponatimethen · 02/05/2022 11:02

@Justmeandtwokids I hope you don’t mind me asking, but is that a specialist provider? We are desperately seeking something similar

perfectstorm · 02/05/2022 11:23

KnottyAuty · 02/05/2022 08:32

Amen to this @perfectstorm . Brilliant idea about the Ofsted rating!!

I would also say that the whole SEN system is based on the false assumption that schools and the LA can and will identify SEN. They can't and don't so early intervention doesn't happen, then entirely predictable problems happen again and again for families across the country. As it is far more difficult & expensive to sort out the resulting mess the NHS & SENDIST pick up the bill for early failures. What will the SEND review do about this?

What we measure, we care about. The DfE and Ofsted measure schools on rates of whole school exam passes and attendance. Not publishing separate figures for the vulnerable populations encourages schools to eject "difficult" pupils to game the system. There are mainstream schools with resourced provisions with more EHCPs on roll than actually attend - where is the incentive to get children engaged with learning when the schools aren't held to account about whether they are there but can keep their annual funding allocation? Will you change reporting standards so that schools publish outcomes specifically for pupils on SEN Support and EHCPs? Also attendance percentages of those on EHCPs (eg <50% and >90%)?

Yes! I can name 3 local parents off the top of my head whose children have been at home, long-term, unable to attend at all (or for eg an hour a day) while the school is getting up to £26,000 of additional funding for their SEN.

I would also agree that primary schools tend to block assessment rather than encourage it, because the longer they can, the more it becomes a secondary school's issue. The norm in this country for autistic kids is for them to fall apart in secondary, after a primary history of parents increasingly frantically asking the school for help, while the school insists there are no problems other than poor parenting and that, "they are fine in school". Then you have 12 and 13 year olds with suicidal ideation, unable to learn, being sent to eyewateringly, wince-inducingly expensive specialist schools - I'm talking well over a hundred grand a year - because they have become so profoundly harmed that any mainstream,
even a small gentle independent, is a pipe dream, as is a life without significant intervention in psychiatric terms. These are kids who could have been fine, if picked up on and supported earlier. I know, because I have one of each. I ignored the school with my second, had full assessments done when tiny, got the EHCP by applying myself, and we have a child in mainstream who is showing every indication of remaining there. My eldest has PTSD, has suffered unbearably badly, and costs the state a fortune. Which of them is the model to emulate, in provision terms? Yet right now, the damage option is the norm.

One of the other problems is the insistence on a misinterpretation of the concept of 'inclusion' - and at all costs. Nobody would insist that a girl should be the lone student in a school full of boys, and that she should in all ways appear indistinguishable, because that would be as dangerous as it is impossible - but with autism, that's seen as the ideal. Why can't we have 'mainstream plus' schools, along village school models? Smaller overall, smaller classes, plain walls for lower stimulation, PE that can be Pilates and FIZZY (the standard intervention for dyspraxia) for all, staff who are trained and who get it, and the curriculum delivery tweaked, so it's accessible for neurodiverse kids? A school that was just adjusted for kids like mine would mean all they needed was the Notional SEN Budget per child, not special school levels, so they wouldn't need an EHCP. It would save the state money in EHCPs, CAMHS, the criminal justice and the benefits systems, not to mention the lifetime costs of adults so harmed by their school years that they can't ever work - and it would save children such trauma.

We know the existing system doesn't work. We know the costs rocket alongside the harm. So why can't we try something else? Autistic children think differently, and see the world differently, and in many ways, not worse. Different. Yet we force them into schools designed for the most robustly neurotypical, and are then surprised when large numbers emerge profoundly harmed, and unable to work, or function, in adult life. Why are we not looking for a different approach? How is this norm allowed to continue as such?

It is not inclusive to force autistic children into large comprehensives at all costs, even if that causes them genuine, and profound, trauma. Anyone trying to force that as the model is mandating abuse. We can, and should, do better.

Onceuponatimethen · 02/05/2022 11:55

What is so tragic about the current SN education setup is that desire to cut economic costs at an early stage just increases costs down the line. More children with autism would be able to speak, read, write and work with better early intervention and early education.

GloGirl · 02/05/2022 13:04

I would also like to echo other posters from here who would like an understanding in the system that a lot of SEN and neurodivergence is inherited and often undiagnosed in adults.

My son has significant SEN and almost out of primary school. The school will not apply for an EHCP and I have no idea how to, He receives no additional funding or learning support. I also have learning difficulties and am struggling to access/understand the legal fights I need to begin.

How can us parents help our children to achieve when SENCOs are firefighting for support for the kids who most at need/risk? When our children don't throw punches or chairs but become isolated, insular, depressive or anxious.

Parents need a dedicated contact who is able to work in the best interests of all parties. One who knows the children and the school, and the system. Has the time to look after everyone who has an additional need. This exists but is grossly underfunded. Our SENCO could work full time in school and still be overstretched but only has 8 hours a week to work on the SEN register.

Silkierabbit · 02/05/2022 13:06

What is also being done to address the lack of school places? My son is in y10 and school said mid GCSEs and mid my chemotherapy they cannot meet needs. Every single school approached has said no. His problems worsened a lot in lockdown so at home is not suitable. I am not well enough to take it to court myself and not well enough to work but the only way my son can get any school place, and he has no behaviour issues, very bright, just mute and asd, is to use lawyers. The LA disregards all legal timescales, I first applied for EHCP 3.5 years ago, we got one after 3 years, its now in emergency review, we are 12 weeks in and still no draft. There are no consequences only rewards for this. But it means I am destined for a life of not working and so is my son, I had a very well paid career before this and he could have done with help.

perfectstorm · 02/05/2022 14:08

Onceuponatimethen · 02/05/2022 11:55

What is so tragic about the current SN education setup is that desire to cut economic costs at an early stage just increases costs down the line. More children with autism would be able to speak, read, write and work with better early intervention and early education.

This. So much this.

There's been research for 20 plus years now that in excess of 75% of those in Young Offender Institutions are over the diagnostic thresholds for ASD, ADHD, and related disorders. We know the unemployment rates, mental health disorder rates, and NEET rates for this cohort are sky high. It costs the state billions to fail them. Yet failed they continue to be, because it saves a few million in the here and now.

It is short-termism writ large.

grannybiker · 02/05/2022 19:21

When allocating places for secondary school, will any consideration be given to travel?

AReallyUsefulEngine · 02/05/2022 19:39

What do you think the ramifications of the proposals on EOTAS will be?

GloGirl IPSEA* *have a model letter on their website you can use to apply for an EHCNA.

Justmeandtwokids · 02/05/2022 20:46

Onceuponatimethen · 02/05/2022 11:02

@Justmeandtwokids I hope you don’t mind me asking, but is that a specialist provider? We are desperately seeking something similar

It's a unit attached to a mainstream primary (state)

hannahbjm · 03/05/2022 12:06

From how its worded are you removing the ability to select any school and we have to choose from a chosen list? This is very worrying. Thank you

danni0509 · 04/05/2022 17:45

Every child has the right to excellent education - particularly those with special educational needs and disabilities, who often need the most support.

From the send review, words spoken by the education secretary himself.

My ds is nearing the end of year 3, he hasn’t done a full day in education yet. Not because he can’t manage, he loves school, it’s because no school he has ever attended has allowed him too due to his behaviour, behaviour arising from his disabilities.

Reception 2 hours a day, year 1 a mix of 3-4 hours a day, year 2 the same, year 3 a mix of 2,3 & 4 hours a day. (Part of year 2 and all of year 3 in a specialist school) add all of those hours up he has lost over the past 4 years, doesn’t exactly tie into Nadhim Zahawi statement.

THOSE WITH SPECIALIST EDUCATIONAL NEEDS ARE THOSE THAT NEED THE MOST SUPPORT.’

Ds having some issues lately, change in adhd medication, school can’t cope with an adhd child ‘unmedicated’ whilst the new ones get into his system. 1 particularly bad day at school yesterday and they are cutting his hours down to 2 a day, from 4. Apparently ‘For 3 months until the new one is working’

Square 1 again.

(I’ve refused to co operate, I will not be accepting him home any earlier than he already is - remember he only does 4 hours as it is.)

The question I want to ask is, when will proper consequences be given for this behaviour?

Schools operating like this should be immediately graded inadequate by ofsted. It is to be used in exceptional circumstances only and for the shortest amount of time possible. NOT as a long term solution. This is from the dfe website.

So why has this happened in the 3 schools and nursery ds has attended. For almost 4 years in total. And why are so many more parents in the same boat as myself? My son has had an ehcp and adequate funding throughout so i don’t find any excuse acceptable.

My LA neither give a shiny shit about it. I have complaints going back years with it all.

AReallyUsefulEngine · 04/05/2022 17:47

@danni0509 you need to threaten the LA with Judicial Review. If the threat doesn’t work contact SOSSEN for help with a pre-action letter.

danni0509 · 04/05/2022 18:07

@AReallyUsefulEngine Thanks for your message.

I did this, I phoned his education plan co ordinator, complained again, said that what you said, (never sent pre action letter though) the local authority contacted the school, the school fed them a load of shit about ‘ds not coping’ (he honestly can, the school can’t cope with him) saying it was best for him and his anxieties to go slow and steady (which I’m all for but not a long dragged out process becuase it’s easier for them), and the local authority said it was better than him having no school at all. And as long as school where increasing his hours they were happy. His school increase it about half an hour after 20 emails from me, then a few months later same situation, we are up to 4 hours, but he’s been in this specialist a year now. Then he has a bad day, they try put it down again as my dilemma is this week.

Could bang my head off a brick wall several times over.

He’ll move from here at some point, but then next school I’m sure will be same situation. Never ending circle.

AReallyUsefulEngine · 04/05/2022 18:11

@danni0509 you need to follow through with a pre-action letter. The LA need to see you are serious. You can also ask for an early review and ask for a change of placement.

grannybiker · 04/05/2022 18:29

Concerns about the transition from DLA to PIP, particularly as there are already delays on new / renewing established claims.
Any reassurance how information can be simply carried over?
Shudders at the thought of that 40 page form

danni0509 · 04/05/2022 18:34

He has his annual review next month, I’m just thinking carefully what to do next before that comes, there isn’t a lot of options, but it’s not the school for him. It’s 20 miles away, he couldn’t go further, we have had real issues with taxi and transport and the LA having to do an emergency risk assessments recently due to worsening behaviour in the car. He’s on his 5th PA as they all keep leaving! He’s already harnessed in the car etc etc so I don’t think adding any more time onto 30 mins each way is a possibility for the minute.

I knew almost straight away this school wasn’t right, the staff don’t want any hard work, they are all the same. His teacher who he’s got for another year plainly dislikes ds but he makes it very obvious. The complaints I get, half the time is for something ridiculous, he’s thrown a shoe, he’s thrown a book, he said ‘tough titties’ 🤣 it’s a school that specialises in challenging behaviour. I’m not saying ds throwing things is ok, but it’s just so daft to make such a commotion over really minor (in my opinion) behaviours. He’s in a school like this for a reason.

Just seems to be one disaster after another with ds and schools. I literally give up! 😅

Thanks for your help, @AReallyUsefulEngine x

Morph22010 · 04/05/2022 21:41

perfectstorm · 02/05/2022 14:08

This. So much this.

There's been research for 20 plus years now that in excess of 75% of those in Young Offender Institutions are over the diagnostic thresholds for ASD, ADHD, and related disorders. We know the unemployment rates, mental health disorder rates, and NEET rates for this cohort are sky high. It costs the state billions to fail them. Yet failed they continue to be, because it saves a few million in the here and now.

It is short-termism writ large.

Exactly this and that ps ignoring the thousands of parents who have to give up well paying jobs (and paying tax) in order to go on benefits as their children aren’t in school for months or years at a time due to their needs not being met

Misspepperpotts · 05/05/2022 06:26

Will additional funding be made available for SEND ?
Will funding for SEND school provision be ring fenced ?

Silkierabbit · 05/05/2022 23:40

What provision will there be to keep SN children safe? My DS is very depressed as I have cancer and currently walks alone at school a 60mph road. The school have reported this many times to the LA but they will not provide any help or staff so if he is killed they don't care. Nor do the government. Its saves money if he dies.

AudTheDeepMinded · 07/05/2022 07:36

How on earth can you provide appropriate SEND places when there are not even enough school places to go round for any child where I live (Devon) Massive building programme of new houses but no new Drs surgeries, nurseries or schools. Specialist provision can't be put in place if there are no blooming schools available in the first place.

hiredandsqueak · 07/05/2022 07:57

@Silkierabbit you should contact Gavin at SENTAS He is the expert in the field of SEN school transport and a really nice bloke as well.

Luculentus · 07/05/2022 15:45

Silkierabbit · 05/05/2022 23:40

What provision will there be to keep SN children safe? My DS is very depressed as I have cancer and currently walks alone at school a 60mph road. The school have reported this many times to the LA but they will not provide any help or staff so if he is killed they don't care. Nor do the government. Its saves money if he dies.

If there is no safe walking route to your son's school, he qualifies for home to school transport. You need to apply for it, and if it is refused, use the LA's internal appeal system. If that doesn't succeed, contact SOS SEN about getting a pre-action letter done as a first step in judicial review proceedings. If you had to start action, your son would be entitled to legal aid to enable this to be pursued.

Luculentus · 07/05/2022 15:48

The only provision for accountability in the Green Paper is a vague assurance that this will be dealt with by the DfE. However, they have had power to make local authorities accountable previously, for example in relation to failed Ofsted inspections and failure to carry through effective action based on those inspections, but they have not used those powers. A report recently indicated that the DfE is not attempting to monitor whether LAs are delivering the provision in EHCPs. How can you expect anyone to have faith that this will result in a properly run SEND system where LAs and others will be held fully accountable when they fail children?

Luculentus · 07/05/2022 15:51

What is the point of the proposal for a further review if mediation fails to resolve issues? The Green Paper indicates that this would be done by the same panel as the one which makes the original decision which is being challenged. How can that possibly be accepted as independent, especially as it appears it will be made up predominantly from people paid by the LA?

Louise0701 · 07/05/2022 16:08

What can be do to ensure resources assigned for children with SEN are actually used for this purpose?
my son has a 1-1 but she is used as a whole class TA as I’m told there simply isn’t enough money in the budget and whilst my son is the only one in the class with an EHCP, there are a further 5 registered as needing SEN support.

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