What do you think of UK Government’s Scottish Referendum YouDecide tool? NOW CLOSED

[MichelleMumsnet]

Today, the UK Government is launching YouDecide; an online tool that helps you to see what remaining in the United Kingdom offers you and your family.

Here's what UK Government has to say:

"We have created YouDecide ahead of the Scottish independence referendum on 18 September, to help you explore what the United Kingdom provides and what this means for your home, your family and your work life. YouDecide has been designed so that you can drill down quickly and simply to get facts on the issues that matter to you.

"We all know that the independence referendum is the most important decision to face voters in Scotland in 300 years; it's a decision that affects everyone in Scotland and the rest of the UK. The information you find on the YouDecide tool is informed by the facts and figures published in HM Treasury's Scotland analysis programme and also reflects UK Government policy.

"There is a wealth of information on the referendum subject. We want you to be as fully informed as possible ahead of making such an historic and permanent decision.

"There are of course a number of things we cannot answer, because no one knows the full impact that independence would have on all areas. Splitting a 300 year-old union would be complicated and many new agreements would need to be negotiated. We can't speculate on unknowns but we can give you the facts about the existing UK policy.

"Together as England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland we have created one of the world's most successful unions. Our UK Government policy is that we want to see Scotland remain part of the UK because we believe that by staying together we have much more to share and much more to gain."

Have a look at YouDecide and let us know what you think of the tool and the issues surrounding it by posting your thoughts below. Do you feel you have the facts and information you need to make an informed choice about Scotland's future to remain in the United Kingdom or to leave and become a separate state, permanently, or not? You can also look at the UK Government's In the Know factsheets series and booklet: What Staying in the United Kingdom Means for Scotland.

Thanks,

MNHQ

Ah, I guess the link won't work, hadn't realised quite how long it is.

[Grin]

FFS

Ha! Nothing like making a late entrance & fucking it up!

Have just had a look at the actual "tool"

• how is a piece of propaganda a tool? What is the actual point of this??

The point is dressing the propaganda up so people won't recognise it as such. Shoddy and underhand and not something governments should be doing with their populations.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the UK government believe the Scottish population to be of low intelligence.

Why is it on mumsnet though?

Because the Westminster government paid MNHQ.

Itsall summed it up beautifully. Taxpayers money - yours, mine, wherever you live in the UK - paid for this piece of obvious (and not very good) propaganda. And it's on MN (and FB, and Twitter) because WM gvt thinks the more publicity, the better, and MN can be an influential site.

Delighted at the responses, though. I suspect a few more Undecideds have been swayed towards Yes by this kind of shite.

OldLady nah I'm dead boring :) Most of my twitter feed is trade union politics with the occasional bit of cybernattery ;) It would be nice to think anyone out there was reading, but rather unlikely.

YouDecide is really shite on multiple levels. One thing I noticed is housing. Housing is devolved to Scotland and has been since the creation of the Scottish Parliament. There are no benefits which exist from remaining in the UK in a devolved area of politics. It would look the same if we were independent as if we were not (at least at first).

So the "Own your own home?" part has to resort to things like "You would suffer because supermarket costs would be higher!" Not only is this completely made up, so if you only rent your home you don't have to eat food then? Or everyone who rents is bin howking? If the increased cost was true how would it only affect people who owned their own home? It's a bit desperate to say the least.

"Rent your home?" is possibly even more stupid. It advocates the Help to Buy scheme - if you're in Scotland it's LIFT, not Help to Buy, that you would attempt to buy your home under. However, this is a scheme run by the hated Scottish Government and cannot be mentioned.

My favourite is "As part of the UK, Scotland benefits from interest rates, which could be up to 1.65% lower than if it were a separate country." Indeed, and my fanjo could be made from money and gold. That figure is entirely pulled out of thin air.

It's like if I said "If Scotland doesn't become independent I will personally send 99 dogs to bite you on the arse". It's a series of ridiculous, over the top threats which cannot even be vaguely likely to be followed through.

Here is a good piece by the fantastic young playwright Kieran Hurley on his reasons for voting Yes. Video too at the bottom, if you prefer. He's a great writer.

This blog is great too : awomansviewonindependence.wordpress.com/2014/07/22/a-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-frances-brown/

I've looked at You Decide, I've looked at Scotland's Future online (paid for by the Scottish Government) and an awful lot of articles and blogs linked to in various places (yes and no). A few years ago I thought I would vote yes, but now am a very firm No. Interested to see people still linking to Wings - the last few times I've looked both he and his commenters were getting increasingly unpleasant and ranting.

I do wonder what the point of these 'paid discussions' is though? What do they expect to get put of them, considering that most people posting will probably be those already holding firm views?

I think the WM government has only just cottoned onto the power of social media, and is desperately trying to start some sort of grassroots movement.

Wings can be pretty abrasive, but the articles are always well written and fully referenced.

That's really interesting that you've moved from Yes to No - bucking the trend there!

I like to buck the trend! It was quite a while ago though, the yes phase was post the 2011 election (in which I protest voted SNP, a move I regret now) and wasn't really something I thought about, it was more 'I suppose I will', can't remember when exactly I started doing a lot more reading and thinking - but I'm glad it was a while ago, wouldn't like to be making the decision now when everything is getting more intense. And I'm so glad it was before I discovered referendum Facebook pages

Why do you regret voting snp? Just out of interest.

Can I ask a question which has been puzzling me for a while - why, of itself, is tone and stridency of argument so upsetting to people?

I find it hard to understand, because I think what matters most to me is the argument itself, and what facts/opinions/perspectives come out of it, and I'm really not that bothered by how shouty people get about things. I do think it's preferable on the whole to stay calm, but sometimes feelings run high and I allow room for that without feeling that it necessarily undermines the content of what's going on.

So when I'm reading Wings, for instance, who I agree is occasionally extravagantly furious, I would say that he's furious because he's feeling so strongly about what he's discussing (which has included some really extraordinary deceptions and misrepresentations that we should all be furious about). Doesn't stop me from appreciating the content, or the argument, or the sources which he collects and presents.

But so often you hear people (often women? Or is that just my perception?) saying that they're put off debates by politicians arguing or (re. the referendum) by the ranty tone of one side or the other. Isn't this all stuff that's worth having a vigorous debate about? And shouldn't people and politicians express their views forcefully? I want a bit of passion in a debate which is so important, and don't feel that that means it can't be respectful.

So if you're someone who feels put off by shoutiness I'd really like to know what it is exactly that you don't like - is it the strong feelings? Handling disagreement? Does it make you feel that you ought to respond in similar mode? What would make you more comfortable with a vigorous discussion?

You know , that Priti Patel on Question Time link upthread has Justine MN on the panel. Unless my eyes deceive me. Far right, stripy T-shirt.

Germy I suppose the main reason I regret it is that it was a protest vote that I hadn't really thought through. And I wouldn't want it to be seen as an endorsement for independence ( although I should say that I'm well aware that not everyone who supports independence is an SNP voter, and that conversely not everyone who voted SNP is in support of independence). I'm also not keen on some of the things they are doing with the new exams, single police force etc.

OhBuggerandArse it isn't so much stridency that bothers me (should maybe have thought of another word) and absolutely, this is a debate that people are and should be passionate about. And a lot of his stuff is good but I find his tone (and possibly more the commenters) goes too far for me more and more these days. But then that's happening a lot and I think does reflect the level of feeling on both sides. I suppose for me it is a fine line between passionate debate and moving into something more aggressive. But then I'm not really used to getting this involved in political debate, so it has been a bit of a learning curve.

I think the independence debate has matured over the years. Speaking personally, I have come from roots where it was very anti-English and inward, but with the passage of time and in a more global age people are now realising that we can be welcoming and open but we want to be in charge of our own destiny. However, that bitterness lingers in a small section of pro-Yes people and it definitely has had a lasting effect on the way we are perceived by others, who sometimes see an aggression and a dark kind of nationalism that really is dying out now. Which is a great shame.

It's not a shame that it's dying out! It's a shame that it has left a legacy of doubt and suspicion.

Massive wording fail there, sorry.

There's bitterness on both sides, hopefully a vocal minority. I've had some good discussions with people voting yes, and I've seen/heard some shocking stuff from both sides. With such an increase in the amount of political debate then it is inevitable that things get heated. Hopefully the level of political engagement will stay high afterwards.

Stay high in a constructive sense I mean. Clearly past my bedtime and my brain is not keeping up.....

OhBugger I've been denounced in front of an audience of hundreds for my politics (if you're interested, I was a destructive force taking us back to the bad old days of the 80s and the Militant) I was in the audience giving it the Jeremy Kyle headshake and handflap ;) But that was someone who was angry with my politics, not with me.

I don't mind a bit of confrontational politics but it has to be political. The bloke behind Wings isn't always very good at this. He's personal. He's also aggressive. It's the difference between saying "The comrade has some extremely mistaken ideas" and "You're a bitch and a cunt".

I think this is a real error in tone and he's not precisely making friends. It shuts down discussion because "I strongly disagree with you politically" comes across rather better than "You're a piece of shite". Even if that's what you think, that should not be what you say.