What do you think of UK Government’s Scottish Referendum YouDecide tool? NOW CLOSED

[MichelleMumsnet]

Today, the UK Government is launching YouDecide; an online tool that helps you to see what remaining in the United Kingdom offers you and your family.

Here's what UK Government has to say:

"We have created YouDecide ahead of the Scottish independence referendum on 18 September, to help you explore what the United Kingdom provides and what this means for your home, your family and your work life. YouDecide has been designed so that you can drill down quickly and simply to get facts on the issues that matter to you.

"We all know that the independence referendum is the most important decision to face voters in Scotland in 300 years; it's a decision that affects everyone in Scotland and the rest of the UK. The information you find on the YouDecide tool is informed by the facts and figures published in HM Treasury's Scotland analysis programme and also reflects UK Government policy.

"There is a wealth of information on the referendum subject. We want you to be as fully informed as possible ahead of making such an historic and permanent decision.

"There are of course a number of things we cannot answer, because no one knows the full impact that independence would have on all areas. Splitting a 300 year-old union would be complicated and many new agreements would need to be negotiated. We can't speculate on unknowns but we can give you the facts about the existing UK policy.

"Together as England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland we have created one of the world's most successful unions. Our UK Government policy is that we want to see Scotland remain part of the UK because we believe that by staying together we have much more to share and much more to gain."

Have a look at YouDecide and let us know what you think of the tool and the issues surrounding it by posting your thoughts below. Do you feel you have the facts and information you need to make an informed choice about Scotland's future to remain in the United Kingdom or to leave and become a separate state, permanently, or not? You can also look at the UK Government's In the Know factsheets series and booklet: What Staying in the United Kingdom Means for Scotland.

Thanks,

MNHQ

Did you all get the booklet full of lies a few weeks ago from them as well?

Here's a funny vid of a chap ranting his way through it, lol.

voteyestoindy.net/englishman-rant-on-better-together/

I've already made my decision. However, if I had not, the very last place I would look is on a central government link. Youdecide was not created to help people make an informed choice. It is propaganda for a no vote.

I would love to hear your thoughts on this MNHQ.

This is the second sponsored discussion the Westminster government has paid for on here.

Don't think the last one went to well either.

AuntieStella I could definitely be massively thick here, but in that case why is there no serious border control between NI and ROI, if the UK and Ireland are neither of them in Schengen? Ireland and the UK are not the same country.

awaits answer to daft question

I'm really enjoying the links though.

If Scotland join Schengen surely it would then be up to England to have border controls as it would be them that didn't want free movement?

Ireland opted out of Schengen as due to UK opting out it would affect the common travel agreement between both countries so wouldn't be beneficial.

How much of our taxpayer money has been wasted by HMQ to pay for this sponsored discussion, if it has been paid for?

Sorry Republic of Ireland & UK have a common travel agreement in place so no borders needed.

Countries who were in the EU before Schengen had the right to opt out (which ROI and UK exercised), but countries which joined since had to enter.

Outside Schengen, countries can set their own border arrangements, and that is what the two governments did for that particular land border, in light of the particular historic and current features of it.

That might not apply here (conditional because no-one knows on what terms the EU will let the new country iScotland join, and whether a Schengen exemption to normal accession terms will be either sought or secured. If iScotland does not join Schengen, then there's no need to change. But if it must join, or if it chooses to, then the question is for the rUK government - does it want an open land border with the Schengen zone? The answer is likely to be no, hence need for border controls.

For ROI/UK, the only people crossing the border will be the respective citizens or those whose right to be there has been checked on entry to at least one of the countries, and both governments are satisfied about the admin of that. For Schengen, the number of countries is much larger and although the same (EU) people would have the right of entry, confidence in the border controls of the entire perimeter of Schengen is not as great as that for the island of Ireland.

This is a good read:

archive.today/mFYaL

"Denis Diderot, the great encyclopedist who was a friend of David Hume, wrote: “Every colony whose authority rests in one country and whose obedience is in another, is in principle a vicious establishment.” Scotland was never a colony. But, having once been a partner in the union, it became a dependency in the course of the 20th century. The empire’s opportunities shut down, Scotland’s industrial economy died or was killed off, and decisive political divergence began as Scottish voting patterns separated from those of the rest of the UK. The outcome was authority in London requiring obedience in Scotland – Diderot’s “vicious establishment”."

I think a more likely outcome in the event of a yes vote would be Scotland continuing as a member of the EU (it doesn't need to join because it's already a member and all of its citizens are EU citizens) under the existing opt-out agreement (as has been alluded to by some senior EU bods) but then rUK leaving it (which is a worrying but real prospect).

Also Auntie, the border controls would affect one way traffic only, assuming Scotland continues to offer free movement as is proposed. So the threat of border controls being wielded by Westminster is within their control and not something likely to be imposed by the SG.

Nice link, Yama. Re border control, I think it's most likely we'll stay with the Common Travel Agreement, whether rUK leave the EU or not; it's the most practical, sensible solution. Personally I wouldn't mind joining Schengen, even if it meant border controls at Gretna, but my own preference is of course less important than the free movement of people and goods within this small island.

The precise nature of any putative border controls would depend on what agreements were made. A Schengen iScotland would have to check all those coming from a non-Schengen rUK were EU nationals or had a Schengen visa.

Of course. Which is why we won't be forced to join Schengen, since Schengen is about reducing borders, not artificially creating them.

That's my point exactly OLKS ... it's the rUK that's the spanner in the works here. The EU has no reason, no motive and no incentive to throw Scotland out. It makes no sense. The ball would be in the rUK's court.

There won't be a problem, then, as NobOrders are official supporters of the union.

This is for those who think that the referendum is about one man (as that Labour Party link would suggest).

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202597056944035&set=a.1084423027205.2014169.1125263410&type=1&theater

I think the website is OK, but I didn't need to read it as I know when I'm well off. Still, if you like to have numbers to throw at people in arguments, I suppose it does that.

The Yes campaign could answer their points, one by one, but who knows which set of figures actually reflect your reality?

Because - and here's the thing - your reality is not likely to be mine. Our society is so divided now that any changes brought in to help one group of people will harm another. And since we're all globalised, vested interests are as powerful here in Scotland as anywhere else. We need to work together towards making society fairer, rather than waste time in escapist fantasies imo.

For the first few years of independence, there will be a frantic scramble for power in all the new institutions, and it will be those with friends in high places and the sharpest elbows who win out, because they always do. So don't expect things suddenly to get better, for society to get fairer, for the rich to share their wealth and the poor to get jobs and houses. That won't happen any sooner in iScotland than it will in rUK.

As someone said, there will be changes whatever happens in September. I want to see Scotland with more devolved powers within the UK, so that we can work together to get rid of the Tories. All the main parties have promised this, and we will have a lot of clout if it's a close call. The Westminster Govt will know that the passions that have been fired up by this debate aren't just going to die down, so let's hope they keep those promises.

Like they did in 79?

Remind me. Who promised what in 79?

In 1979 Scotland voted for devolution.
www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/affairs-scotland/6847-anniversary-of-79-referendum-serves-as-a-warning-to-scots-say-snp

In February 1979, just days before the devolution referendum, former Conservative Prime Minister Alec Douglas-Home told Scots that if they voted against the assembly then on offer, a future Tory Government would deliver a better scheme.

He lied. He's dead now. I believe the SNP boycotted the cross-party movement which campaigned for devolution in the 80s.

Politicians do lie and change their minds.

Well nhs Scotland is ripe for privatisation - just like we are seeing Ruth nhs England.

And I don't see much sign of austerity in London - quite the reverse. The scale of investment in infrastructure is staggering. I barely recognise areas I grew up in. The contrast with Scotland is just shocking.

Frankly if you think the Westminster government is going to make any effort to improve life in Scotland you are a fool. And the Labour Party doesn't seem to be offering anything different from the Tories in terms of welfare reform etc