Discuss your views of the Scottish Referendum with the UK government NOW CLOSED

[MichelleMumsnet]

With fewer than 200 days to go until the Scottish referendum, UK Government has produced the latest edition, in a series of information packs, focussing on money and the economy in the context of the independence debate.

Read more: Scottish independence referendum: Money and the economy.

UK Government wants to find out what Mumsnetters' views are of the Scottish referendum coming up in September. When it comes to the prospect of Scotland going it alone and possible impacts on the economy, like changes in currency and taxes, what are your views? Whether you're Scottish or not we'd love to hear your thoughts.

Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury says, "As part of the UK the Scottish economy is growing, inflation is down and more people are in work. By remaining part of the UK, Scottish industry and jobs will be protected by the generous freeze on duties on spirits and the £3bn tax break for oil and gas industries we announced at the Budget, as well as the big cuts in income tax helping 2 million Scottish workers.

This new pack sets out some key facts people in Scotland need to know before the referendum in September. I urge everyone to read up on the facts and understand the true benefits being part of the United Kingdom brings to Scotland."

Mumsnet will be hosting various content and activity in the run up to the referendum from all sides of the debate, so do keep a look out for these in the coming months.

Thanks,

MNHQ

I would rather see them vote yes and leave than devolve further and merrily keep all the benefits of staying while giving little in return....

blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/02/06/scottish-independence-the-30-charts-you-need-to-know/

This link has some useful charts for you:

"10. Scotland’s share of UK public spending is higher than its population share but so too is its share of tax revenue. It is not a drain on the public finances (Source: Parliament.)"

"11. The gap between government revenues and spending is smaller – or rather, was smaller in 2011-12 – in Scotland than the UK as a whole. (Source: FT.)"

Free university education for Scots and other Europeans but not the English springs to mind.....

Two points:

1. University education was always free at poiint off access until Westminster decided to change it. Scotland is not doing anything different, and neither is Europe.

2)Free university education in Scotland is not paid for by the English taxpayer. Scotland gives money to Westminster, Westminster gives some back. The Scottish government then prioritises its spending rather differently from WM.

I am a YES.

I want a government that represents us (SCOTS)

YES it's scary. We cannot have a constitution until we have the referendum and people vote yes. So there are no answers to lots of questions yet.

It is not a vote for a politician or a political party. I have not been to any meetings yes or no. But friends, who have always been nationalists, have been amazed at the breadth of people attending Yes meetings and not a politician among them.

It would be fab to have a new order of honest and open leadership. Now that would be a huge change from the current political culture that seems to depend on slanging matches and talking down what they do not want to promote.

I will be delighted if a bit anxious when we succeed in getting independence.
I will be disappointed if the country votes no.
I will be gutted if we fail to get independence because fellow Scots don't use their vote.

The bit I don't understand, is the companies merge to reduce overhead costs. Smaller companies struggle more, and have less financial stability. That model works just the same for countries, hence unions such as the EU. Telling people Scotland will be richer, well... have they considered the costs of funding all those extra managers, working parties, parliamentary committees, etc etc?

Equally, long-term, it is not wise to rely upon one source of income. Oil is fantastic for now, but it is a finite resource. There is also tourism, which can be fickle as an industry, but will hopefully continue at least in its current form. Scotland needs a plan to develop other industries, and plans to develop trade agreements with other countries to export the products of those industries, be they physical or cyber, or...

There are other small countries, with similar geography, who do well (e.g. Switzerland, Scandinavia). The cost of living there is very high however. Once the oil revenue stops, will it be similar in Scotland? And if so, would there be a 'brain drain' to other European countries, where intelligent, highly educated people would be able to have a better quality of life? You can't just look at the next ten years, but the next 100, or 500, when considering a change such as this.

The bit I don't understand, is the companies merge to reduce overhead costs. Smaller companies struggle more, and have less financial stability. That model works just the same for countries, hence unions such as the EU. Telling people Scotland will be richer, well... have they considered the costs of funding all those extra managers, working parties, parliamentary committees, etc etc?

Scotland already has a government so it already has many of the structures in place

Scotland also pays lots of money to WM to manage these things UK wide. On independence we would have this money to spend.

To edit your analogy slightly. Big company has smaller office in different location. Smaller office is partly autonomous but things like payroll are done from head office. Smaller office brings in lots of revenue which all goes through head office which then gives a portion back.

Head office starts making really dodgy decisions which those in the wee office don't agree with but have to implement. Wee office decides to split off as a separate company.

Equally, long-term, it is not wise to rely upon one source of income. Oil is fantastic for now, but it is a finite resource. There is also tourism, which can be fickle as an industry, but will hopefully continue at least in its current form. Scotland needs a plan to develop other industries, and plans to develop trade agreements with other countries to export the products of those industries, be they physical or cyber, or...

"If you do not include oil and gas revenues then there is little difference in the figures - GDP per head in Scotland was £20,571 in 2011 and for the UK it was £20,873"
m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24866266

So without oil Scotland's GDP per head is broadly similar to UK. Oil is a bonus but not essential.

There are other small countries, with similar geography, who do well (e.g. Switzerland, Scandinavia). The cost of living there is very high however. Once the oil revenue stops, will it be similar in Scotland? And if so, would there be a 'brain drain' to other European countries, where intelligent, highly educated people would be able to have a better quality of life? You can't just look at the next ten years, but the next...

High cost of living compared to the UK perhaps. The people in those countries seem to be doing fine. There appears to be no particular drain drain from Switzerland/Scandinavia to the UK where cost if living is lower?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine and RandomPants, UK Government will not be posting on this thread. Sponsored discussions are usually just a space for an external organisation to start a discussion but then let MNers discuss the topic amongst themselves.

@mumsnet, the title of the thread is therefore rather misleading!

I see thread title had been changed.

Disappointed Dave won't be on for a debate, maybe as scared as us as he is of Salmond.

On that topic, pretty pathetic that DPM Clegg can debate a nobody like Farage but no one of importance will come and debate with the FM of Scotland over such an important issue.

not been changed

Usually the term "with" means, well, with

To be fair to MNHQ this "discussions" always follow the same format. An organisation pays MNHQ, in return they get a stickied advertising post, and a MN focus group.

If you want discussion you'd need to have a webchat (although being politicians theyd only answer what they have had pre-written for them.

I urge everyone to read up on the facts and understand the true benefits being part of the United Kingdom brings to Scotland." MNHQ

I am surprised that MumsNet HQ is promoting a NO vote. Surely the administrator should be neutral or at least disclosing their position. The comment above is partisan.

So in balance...

There are many good reasons for voting YES, not least of all for the future of Scotland and the future of your children.

A better Scotland is possible. And the women of Scotland could be standing up and making this a reality. We can do it much better than Westminster politicians.

NO is negative, determined to maintain the status quo and promising further austerity and impoverishment for Scotland. All Westminster wants to do is scare the residents of Scotland into voting no.

YES is positive, forward looking, inclusive, aspirational and exciting. A chance to reshape our society and change the things that are wrong. A chance to do things differently.

I challenge anyone to read the following (watch the video) and not feel that Independence is an opportunity for their child.

www.yesscotland.net/theReality

www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL2-LQh4BnSEdvNdrxRkjOEgEwQUcxnEXC&feature=player_embedded&v=NclkfOjQle0

My baby boy is due in August. I want a better Scotland for him. I do want him to have to struggle to find work, a decent future and a house. Independence also gets rid of Nuclear weapons from Glasgow and the Clyde.

There are so many inaccurate comments above that I suggest people have a look at these sites if they really want to inform themselves.

yesscotland.eu
www.businessforscotland.co.uk

You will get all the information there. If you have any questions, about anything, please ask me.

The last sixty years of Westminster rule has impoverished Scotland.
Look at the graph below that compares Scotland to the SE by wealth. (Source is UK Government)

Scotland CAN [[http://goo.gl/Mxsngy SHOULD]] and [[http://goo.gl/IKC5nd MUST]] be Independent if we are looking for a better future for our kids.

Natalia

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NclkfOjQle0

Interesting Scan... see the video.

Nice graphic - I keep forgetting we can put up images :)

Would you look at that! Scotland exports more than oil...

And we do pretty ok, either with or without oil...

Both charts are from that well know hotbed of Scottish Nationalism, the Financial Times

blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/02/06/scottish-independence-the-30-charts-you-need-to-know/

But by sponsoring this, MNHQ, you appear to have a political agenda, which I've not come across in 12 years on MN.

Please try to be politically neutral. This is possibly marginal for some, but for Scottish Mumsnetters it's vital.

The fact that you have been happy to present this as chosen by Danny Alexander shows that either you are on his side or don't actually understand how important this is for Scotland.

A reason for YES and a nice thought.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NclkfOjQle0

But by sponsoring this, MNHQ, you appear to have a political agenda, which I've not come across in 12 years on MN

Please try to be politically neutral. This is possibly marginal for some, but for Scottish Mumsnetters it's vital

The fact that you have been happy to present this as chosen by Danny Alexander shows that either you are on his side or don't actually understand how important this is for Scotland

I actually think this is a bit unfair. Mumsnet isn't sponsoring this, ukgov is. It is no different to any of the other paid for discussions on the site.

I'm sure the Yes campaign would be very welcome to do the same if they coughed up the readies.

What I do find interesting is that this has been paid for by ukgov, I would have expected it to be funded by the Better Together campaign. Taxpayers money being used to pay for unionist advertising on Mumsnet? Tsk tsk.

Welcome to MN Natalia and I'm sure you'll find lots of interesting ways to waste hours days before your baby arrives!

Please don't bombard the thread with campaign material, however. It's not really 'cricket'. We would like to hear your views

Let's not reduce the debate to bickering over the 'rightness' of the thread rather than the issues. Similarly, point-scoring on the 'rightness' of the campaigns doesn't get us any nearer to unravelling the issues which - rightly pointed out upthread - are really fundamental to MNer's futures.

The thread started with campaign materials, would have thought that kinda set the tone...

I know, and it's sponsored by uk gov, but I thought that WE had gotten beyond that, to more meaningful exchanges. Obviously not.

To be fair, it's like any thread on Mumsnet. Some people read the whole thread and take the time to write out what they feel about the OP and the thread.

Others just read the thread title and then post a one sentence reaction.

Wouldn't it be great though if MNHQ could get some relevant folk in for a webchat, or even a google hangout.

Yes, relevant. Unlike Danny Alexander, that joke of a man who spends his days pandering to his Tory chums in Westminster, and failing to represent his constituents beyond ensuring his smug chops are pictured in the local rag at every opportunity.

I'd like to hear from academics, business owners, economists, sociologists. People I don't get to talk to every day. I've heard all Danny's hot air already. What do you say Mumsnet?

So you're a fan of Danny Alexander Cashew ?

Natalia, interesting links.

As I've said up thread, I'm a YES. I have noticed a few fb friends (coincidentally Scottish born and raised but living and working in the southeast of England), posting better together banners across their home-pages. I wonder if they are concerned more with what independence means for them as expats, rather than what it means for residents living and working in Scotland.

I have put some neutral links on my page, but no saltire waving just yet. Maybe nearer the vote.

A completely non scientific observation, made by my student DS, in Edinburgh City centre recently, two stalls with people representing both sides of the debate. DS watched for a while, and told us that people were stoping and chatting with the YES camp, but flowing around the NO camp like "migrating wildebeest avoiding an obstacle".

Hi everyone, thanks for all your posts so far, it's been really interesting to read your different opinions. I'd just like to reiterate that Mumsnet do not have a political stance on the Scottish referendum and will be hosting various content from both sides of the debate in the run up to the referendum in September.

This thread, like other sponsored discussions, is a space for an external party, in this case the UK government, to start a discussion and for MNers to post their views and discuss the issues presented with each other.

RawCoconut, interesting what your son observed; BetterTogether actually had people out campaigning! From what I hear, they have a habit of not showing up... A school debate had to be cancelled recently because BT didn't/couldn't field a speaker, and the school was nervous about appearing partisan. This seems to be not unusual.