How much should we expect from an ADHD son - he risks being seen as lazy and entitled.

[FedUpandFiftyNine]

How much leeway do you give SN young adults and when do you step in and say ‘look, you need to learn to address this’?
DS23 lives at home with us after a post grad last year. Claims to be wanting to look for work, but no evidence of any activity.
We just came back from a family self catering holiday with wider family and DH and I were shocked and embarrassed by how he came across.
He just didn’t do any of the normal stuff like help pack or unpack cars, or make a round of coffees, lay table for meals, bring food through, clear plates, load/empty dishwasher etc. on the morning we were leaving everyone was running around tidying and emptying the rental house and he emerged from his room 30 mins before we were due to leave and started making himself breakfast!

I drove home separately with DS (due to other weekend logistics) and I did the whole 4 hour drive. Within minutes of arriving he asked when/what was for dinner, and when I said ‘no idea’ he started microwaving himself a ready meal. I had to ask him to stop and help unload the car.
Is this just his ADHD or is entitledness and laziness creeping in? If he behaves like this with his friends he won’t have any!
Obviously he’s always had traits like this but they seem to have got worse!

Interested to hear what’s said here. I have a brother who is around this age and I could have written this. Still lives at home with my parents who seem to enable it. So unappreciative and gets extremely defensive when anyone suggests anything.

He sounds like an overgrown teenager i expect more of my teen whos nearly 10 years younger.

He behaves that way because you let him - why didnt you call him out on the way he was behaving right from the off??

Presumably its how he behaves at home and he gets away with it there too. Adhd isnt an excuse: he should be developing strategies to cope with it, he could use reminders on his phone, lists etc. Pretty sure adhd doesnt prevent you from offering to make a drink for others if you've remembered to make one gor yourself, thats just selfishness!

When he asked 'whats for dinner' my reply would not have been 'no idea' it would have been 'you tell me! Why don't you cook for us all tonight?'

We do call him out on stuff like this, but as a previous poster says he acts very defensive and always has an excuse for why he ‘can’t’ do something - it’s exhausting.
I did suggest he cook us something and he argued there was ‘nothing in the fridge’ and I didn’t have the energy to argue.
i think I knew he takes advantage of us at home but was genuinely shocked on holiday. His girlfriend was there and she mucked in. If I gave him a specific task (lay the table, cut some salad etc) he did it, but nothing more.

Does anyone have any experience of addressing this attitude successfully. He gets very loud and angry when we try to have any kind of conversations about this kind of thing.

This is exactly why I’ve asked this question - how do we nip it in the bud, and is it even possible?
Or is this just how the ADHD brain is? My other adult child had a flatmate who was very similar.
Also my (also ND) own brother was the same and I saw my parents pussyfooting around it, so I want to avoid ending up the same.
But it’s so exhausting feeling like you’re living in a battlefield in your own home 😢

I have ADHD and I’ve always worked hard and tried to pull my weight with others. I don’t always get it right. I appreciate focus / executive function is an issue - could you spell things out to him?

Thanks - I appreciate the input from someone with ADHD.
Can I ask, what would have helped you, in terms of spelling things out? What would that look like in practice?
DS seems to take any kind of discussion as a personal attack.

I was late diagnosed as an older adult and so the not knowing meant spending that time coming up with coping strategies to mask and fit in.

Maybe that’s more how women are though…

I might have forgotten / lacked focus when left entirely to my own devices but if I had clear instructions on what to do that would work. I.e. he’s not working so dinner is his responsibility to sort for everyone x number of nights a week, give him a cleaning rotation to muck in. I can be guilty of hyper focusing on the wrong things.

I did spent a lot of time feeling useless - could that be where the defensiveness comes from? I don’t want to say it’s more personality that ADHD - but is that his excuse? I’m not sure about the defensiveness - can you frame it as everyone needs to pull their weight? Good luck

@CopeNorth - yes, I do wonder if DS often feels a bit 'useless' and is constantly masking/ coping to appear 'normal'.
On holiday he was hanging around when people were preparing meals etc and trying to distract them by talking about and showing them memes on his phone. He just doesn't seem able to read the room and make the connection to 'everyone's busy, I should offer to help'?

It does end up making him look entitled and lazy as he just lets everyone else do all the work, and we all tend to avoid 'making a scene' about it until something tips the balance.
The other problem is that he's a perfectionist and often takes such a long time to do a simple task that people can't wait!

If he has a post grad degree, he's definitely high functioning enough. Sounds like weaponised incompetence - I mean, why should he bother if others pick up the slack?

Maybe tell him to move out to a shared flat, subsidising his rent until he gets a job

So, imagine it is the 1960s or 70s or 80s when ADHD didnt exist, or we didnt label everyone with everything. You write or read this, would you describe him as naughty and lazy? ADHD is just a thing to hide behind. If he can complete a post grad and concentrate to do so lets question whether his ADHD is genuine or something he can use to get away with doing sod all. Get him to give his head a wobble and get a job. Appreciate he is your son so you probably wont be as harsh but he is lazy and taking advantage for his own benefit and is very clever in doing so.

He’s playing you like a fiddle.

its not ADHD its the way you have brought him up.
Tell to shape up or ship out and mean it.

My son has ADHD and drives me up the wall. Some of his stuff I can attribute to ADHD others he’s just a knobby 19 year old. ADHD stuff is, messy gross room, unable to organise himself, obsession with playing PlayStation, he gets fixated on games.
knobby 19 year old stuff, lazy, unmotivated to get a job until his savings ran out, not helping out around the house. He’s also took to smoking weed a few nights a week which I’m unsure which bracket that falls under. It will most certainly calm his brain but at 19 it could just be typical. And no I’m not happy about it. But asides from explaining the risks of smoking weed, especially at his age my hands are tied. However if we were with family and I asked him to chip in with jobs he would. Teenage boys are EXHAUSTING, but yours is in his 20s so I think he needs a sharp kick up the behind.

Is he clear about what actually needs to be done? Could putting a chore chart up in the kitchen that can be ticked off help him to organise tasks and learn what needs to be done around the home?

Son 24 with acquired brain injury jury from birth has been very like your son. His dad my husband died suddenly lying 2 yrs ago and his behaviour has ben concerning. Hearing my younger Son of 22 who is atypical has been a learning curve. I regret not having the same standards for both when you get. I thought I had but clearly I didnt. The 3 of us have worked hard this past year to improve his attitude and our relationships. Not been easy but we are getting there. Insist on better behaviour now. Tackle it head on. It will only get worse. Good luck x

@FedUpandFiftyNine
For what it's worth even though he has a reason he's sussed things out and is
seriously extracting pure undiluted urine in the circumstances
He knows you'll always be there to make excuses for him and do anything that needs to be done short of wipe his behind
so sod YOUR feelings
Thing is, if you weren't there/took a serious stance
He'd have to sharpen up so
Stop being played like a fiddle

I think the phrase “explanation, not excuse” comes in handy here. His ADHD might explain his behaviour, and you need to understand the cause of something to find a solution. But this is very different to his ADHD excusing his behaviour and suggesting you should tolerate it because he is neurodiverse.

there will be people far more knowledgable that me about how you move forward in a way that caters to how his brain works, but separating explanations and excuses can help to reframe how you tackle this.

ADHD has always existed you ignorant moron. We've learnt a lot in the past 50 years, maybe one day we will find out what's wrong with you and how to fix stupid.

Time for him to get a job and leave home. You're not doing him any favours regardless of his ADHD. My son has this condition but would not have been allowed to behave in this way..

Firstly, does he only have ADHD and could he also have Autism? I would start by clearly telling him what needs to be done around the house. No vague suggestions. If he is a perfectionist, he may not start something in case he can't do it well enough and fears failure. Reassure him and don't criticise him. There will be push back and battles but stay firm as it's worth it in the long run. He probably struggles with procrastination and motivation and that's why he hasn't got a job yet. Again, you're going to have to help him get started or give him a deadline.

Mum of DS teen with ADHD and similar behaviour.
Look up RSD, often seen in those with ADHD esp with the perfectionism you mentioned.

The whole experience of traveling, sharing space, change of routine, lack of normal food etc will also have effected his regulation.
This is something to work on at home rather than on holiday with an audience.

If you go again you can make a plan together.

I might dig into the slow perfectionist thing if he can cope with conversation about it. He might not be trying to help because he expects people will be cross with him for being too slow so thinks it's better to not interfere with the people who are getting on competently.

Being a slow perfectionist will be a hindrance at work as well as everywhere else. ADHD coaching is maybe worth investigating.

I have a 23 yr old son with ADHD and dyspraxia who had to leave uni as he couldn't manage to plan and coordinate 'adulting'. He was perfectly capable of doing individual tasks (shopping/cooking/studying/laundry/life admin etc) but being responsible for it all overwhelmed him. He was a bit of a mess for a while and quite irritating to live with (messy, slow, zoned out of what was needing to be done etc) but we cut him some slack initially. The difference is he really wanted to improve and once he came home we got him formally diagnosed and he started medication which totally turned him around. He's going back to uni in Sept but he's delightful to live with - really helpful and considerate and mucks in with all the household chores and he's on top of his job and life admin. I think you need to make sure your son is receiving the optimum external help - probably medication but could include ADHD mentoring etc - and then you need to make your expectations clear. He can't go on as he is - he's not a child anymore.

I can so relate to the post OP as my adult daughter has ADHD. She’s recently moved out to live with her partner and I’m thrilled. The older she was getting, the harder it was to get through to her. Their brains do work differently and I believe if I was aware of her diagnosis earlier than I did, I would have understood and worked with her better. There’s some good advice here, take what you can. Best of luck x