AIBU?

[claw3]

To have taken back into school ds's shit covered trousers and hand them to TA who always states during meetings and to outside agencies that this has NEVER happened in school and she would have been aware of this because of the smell and ask her to record it?

Ds came home wearing spare school trousers yesterday, with his poo smothered trousers placed in his book bag (not even in a carrier bag) he was still smothered in poo and had obviously changed himself, as spare trousers were on back to front and his shoes were on the wrong feet. This isnt the first time.

yanbu

definatly not BU

She didnt look too impressed and almost dropped them as she unfolded them

Apparently ds had told her, he had wet himself ( i think there would have been a wet patch at the front) so she sent him to the school office to ask for spare trousers and told him to get changed in the toilet.

He has spare trousers and wet wipes which i sent into school and a strategy supposedly in place for when this happens.

yanbu in the slightest.

did you ask her if she knew the difference between wee and poo?

honestly claw, the more I read about your ds school the more I wonder why they are so desperate to deny any SN at all.

that is practically inhumane, tbh (the treatment of your ds, not your treatment of TA ). I mean, do they really think he is doing it on purpose?! what do they thik they are going to achieve by leavign your ds covered in poo?

bloody hell, this makes me so

Silver, they appear to think i am making it all up! I have been telling them since he started school that ds poo's himself and returns home in soiled trousers. Its not just a school problem, it happens everytime he needs to go.

Written in ds's IEP 'mums says he has a problem with soiling, although the school are unaware of any incidents of this in school' = mum is lying!

I have pointed out to the school whether this happening in school is the NOT the problem. The problem is that ds is not asking for help when it does happen and they are aware that this happens in school because ive bloody told them it does.

Ds also plucked up the courage to tell them in January and came home with poo trousers in a carrier bag. But in Feb IEP school stated the same thing.

In a meeting in Feb with outside agencies TA who works with ds in class, sat there and claimed it had never happened and she would have been aware of it happening because of the smell.

IEP states ds has spare trousers and wipes on his peg and IF he does tell, he will use thoses and receive help if needed.

I should have waved them under her nose like smelling salts to revive her sense of smell

BUt surely he must smell when he has an accident (sorry, that sounds really horrible, writing it like that)

if he was prompted by TA (or someone who cares) - would he then admit and let himself be helped, do you think? If htye are sitting back and waiting for him to ask, which is his problem (is he embarrassed, or jsut very private and not waning help form, essentially, strangers?) then it's never goign to change, is it.

If they (tactfully, although not sure possible in this schools case) prompted your ds, would that help matters? Does TA just not know how to address this? How could she possibly let a child sit there all day smelling? At the very least, it can't help your ds' integration with the res tof the class.

I know I couldn't leave a child like that. And I know (believe me, I know!) that peole can get funny about an older child soiling htemselves, and havign to help clear up etc, but really, what the difference between that and changing a baby? it's just someone who needs help at the end of the day, isn't it?

Silver, ds appears to have limited sensation about 'going' and also problems communicating clearly, for example he always describes how things look or what they do, because he cant remember the names. Even the most simple things he cant name, like a kettle if you ask ds what it is called, he doesnt know, he will just describe what it does ie you make tea with it, a washing machine - you wash your clothes in it etc, etc.

So he probably couldnt find the words and he has described how it feels 'my trousers are wet' or he feels wet or words to that effect.

The idea of the wet wipes and trousers on the peg was that ds didnt have to ask, he could just go and get them. Then obviously a teacher would see that he has got them and she could ask if he needed help.

I would have hoped that when ds reported feeling wet, he would have been directed to his peg and asked if he needed help. Whether he was wet or pooed! Not sent to the school office to ask for trousers and then to the toilet on his own to get changed.

I can certain smell it when ds came out of school and gets into the car and other children have in the past called him 'shitty pants'

Seems to me that staff are not informed of strategies which have been put into place.

and that is giving them the benefit of the doubt, as to whether they can smell or not. Perhaps if TA had not sat next to him that day etc, etc, she may not have smelt it. But if he has verbally reported it, there is no excuse!

so it does seem to come down to TA ignoring the problem (unless she has a veey poor sense of smell - I do myself, but have always managed ot notice when the dds need help!)

So it is back to deliberately leaving hiim like that really, isn't it?

why? why would they do this?

I understand they have a lot on, busy classroom, etc, but then why aren't they backing oyu up in asking for more help?!

It is most extraordinary. Did you ask TA why she sent ds to the office (not very helpful, given his issues with asking for help!) rather than help him out, using his own clothes and wipes?

And did she say why she had left him uncomfortable in clothes the wrong way round/shoes on wrong feet?

I hope you have noted down every detail of htis - i would be livid over any one aspect of it, never mind the hwole thing. And I would have been far less restrained than just handing over shitty trousers - the whole school would have heard me, i reckon!

Silver, it was a brief exchange as she comes out into the playground as bell rings to escort class into class room and i was trying to be discreet for ds's sake. But i will certainly be following it up in writing asking questions.

She looked quite shocked that i had taken his trousers back into school. The trousers were also folded neatly in his book bag, something that ds would not do, so someone else obviously put them there and he wouldnt have taken his book bag off to the toilet with him.

Why would they do this, is a question i have asked myself lots. I assume because ds is a very able boy academically and his self-care skills just do not match. So i suppose they probably feel he is just being 'lazy' and leaving him sitting in his own shit to get uncomfortable is the best way to 'teach' him.

They also feel that ds's only problem is having an over-anxious mother who mollycoddles him.

But, but, but (and I know you know all this too - the school's attitude is archaic to say the least!)

what they are doing is borderline (actually, probably not borderlien at all) abusive.

If you had a visit form social services, and they found you had left your ds covered in shit all day "because he is lazy" - the very least you would be accused of is shoddy parenting (ie not teaching him how to help himself)

this is just NOT acceptable. I can understand why oyu were trying to be discreet for your ds, and they should be being so as well. ut discreet does not = leavign him alone and not calling any attention to it. As oyu say, the other children have noticed beofre.

Do they REALLY think he is doign htis (both the poo, and the not cleaning up effectively) becuase he is LAZY? the mind boggles.

and even if he were, surely it is partly their responsibility to make sure he is gettign changed properly - not least for the health and safety aspect of him being covered in poo.

Are these really adults, supposedly intelilgent adults?

THe mind boggles, it really does.

I have to say, in your situation, I would be looking at how I could force the LA's hand over this. We withdrew dd1 rather than leave her in a situation that was borderline abusive (and that really was open to interpretation - in dd1's case it was abusive becuase of how she understood the situation, not htrough any actual action on the schools part) and challenged the LA to find her a school place. It was a littl easier for us, as we withdrew dd1 form a pre-school (she was reception age) and the onus was on LA to find her a suitable school place.

God, what a nightmare.

I cannot believe the school are leaving him like this, denyig any issues at all (at the least, surely, they should be citing behavioural issues because of his poo habits?and that's only if they deny the SN, of course) and not backing you up in asking for extra help.

what are they hoping to achive form this?

Silver, for the school me asking for help has turned into a battle of who is right or wrong. For school it appears not even to be about ds anymore, its about proving me wrong.

There opinion is that ds is not autistic and all his problems are caused by me being an over anxious mother. Me being an over anxious mother has been recorded and placed on his file.

So this isnt about ds, its about them proving that i am over anxious mother. Obviously having evidence that ds does in fact soil himself, proves me right, not wrong.

Im wondering whether i should email LA too to try and force their hand?

This is absolutely disgusting Claw and I think you should write directly to the Head confirming what happened with DS, indicating that as the school have acknowledged in the IEP, this is not the first time and asking that a proper care plan be set up with the school nurse's involvement.

Give the school nurse a ring. DS had this in his reception year and I was advised by my HV to get the nurse involved and she was fab and told school just what to do. She took control and wrote up a care plan - who would do what and when and it was all recorded and signed.

Then send everything to the LA

Oh and then.....get out of that place as fast as you can because they are crap beyond belief.....so crap, they make DS's school look like a shining beacon of inclusivity.

School havent acknowledged that this happens. Despite ds coming home with poo trousers in a carrier bag in January, they continued to write in IEP 'mum says he soils himself, no incidents etc in school' and state at meetings that it doesnt happen. Which is why i took poo trousers back to school today and handed them to TA who always backs up SENCO with she works with Jacob and would smell it if it did happen.

School dont have a school nurse based at the school. I will try to find out where she is based and her number.

Will definitely be putting this in writing.

Thanks Debs.

Sorry, Claw, I misunderstood and thought you said they denied it but there was provision for it on the IEP. Defo put it in writing.

Debs LOL you didnt misunderstand, i misunderstood what you had written, blimey this is getting complicated

Lets start again, there is provision written into his IEP which wasnt followed.

Ds came home with soiled trousers in a carrier bag in January too, so school were obviously aware that it was happening in school. Yet in February they write in IEP 'mum says he soils, but school are not aware of any incidents etc' and TA stated in a meeting in February, that it had never happened as she would have been aware of the smell.

So they are denying the poo incident in January happened. Despite having provision for it, in IEP.

Then, I think you keep on referring to the IEP for confirmation that the school are quite well aware that this is happening or why would they put it in the IEP??

Record it whenever it does and do tell them you will speak to the school nurse who is trained to assist with issues like this. It all helps get an external record of the problem.

Debs wow i have just spoken to the school nurse, she has made a referral to a continence clinic via email as we spoke (i have been waiting 9 months for the the referral OT made, only to find out it was to the wrong place)

She will call me back Monday to advise about referral and a care plan will be put into place by next week. School do not have any involvement in the writing of the care plan, they just have to follow it!

How cool is that! thank you very Debs, its such a relief to be getting some action!

Leonie, your poor dd, school nurse is obviously the answer if your dd still experiences the problem.

Ick, YANBU. That's pretty negligent on the school's part.

And reading on, glad you got some joy out of the school nurse.

good god, this is one of the most upsetting threads I've seen on this section. on the mercifully very few occasions DS has soiled at school they get him to shower and give him spare clean clothes.

If you haven't put the clothes in bin/to wash, I would take a photo as back up.

Good for you Claw! They give you enough shite so give some back to them