Early signs of autisim?

[anniepan4]

hey everybody! just joined up today as wondering whats what with autisim really....
(i dont understand all this abbrev stuff ! so bear with me )..
have 4 children, 13,9,15 months & 4 months.. the 15 month old concerns me greatly...
it all strted really when he'd fall off something and just get up seemily not bothered, maybe on a really hard fall he'll cry but other than that nope.. nothing, thisis what has me wondering... he does not wave, rarely claps, says no words yet that mean anything, kisses with a headbutt!, spins round and round, has to close anything that is open,drawers,fridge etc... fascinated with wheels on a car, HATES going to toddler/baby groups in fact the ones we've taken him to in the past we have just ended up leaving as everyone stares so much at us with 'the screamer' in the corner! shows no interest when out on the pushchair at things going by etc.. basically hes just happy at home, hates change.. over the weekend we tried to sit out in the garden to no avail, he just stood behind the duvet drying on the line with on/off crying.... I know that if i go to hv with all this she'll just think im having another crazy moment but i just know somethings not quite right...tip of the iceberg being the phone dropping on his head last night full pelt to which he just walked off... any suggestions/ ideas / comments would be most welcome xx

I think if you ask pretty much any body here they will say that one of their biggest regrets is not pushing for a referral sooner when they had worries about their child.

You need a referal to a Paed for an all-over check. If all is well then all is well, but do not be fobbed off with 'it's too early'. It is never too early for early intervention and a couple of months worth at this age could save years of intervention later.

Do you know of the CHAT or M-CHAT

thank you... whats CHAT or M-CHAT ? xx

Hello Anniepan - I'm entirely with AngryWasp on this. With my DS it was actually the HV that referred us; I was furious with her at the time for thinking there was something wrong with my child but now not a week goes by that I don't thank her in my heart.
Go with your instinct - you have had two children before, which makes you an expert in my book. Being referred and waiting for an appointment is hell, but as AngryWasp says, you have little to lose and possibly a lot to gain from early intervention, if that is necessary. Good luck!!!

honestly anniepan ? i'd want him checked#
he could be nt

he might have a sensory issue

he might jhave asd

nut only a referral to a paed (both my asd son's were via gp) will tell you

In the menatime get his eyes tested as they need that for assessment anyhow and sometimes that can explain more than you think

Hi Anniepan, your description of your son, reminds me so much of my own boy at the same age. I was lucky that I had an efficient health visitor who referred him for assessment, and he got diagnosed with autism just before his second birthday. Looking back, I'm so glad that he got diagnosed early and we have been able to access the help and support out there. Early intervention is so important. Your son is very lucky that he has a mum who is on the ball, please don't allow anyone to tell you otherwise. Kate x

Hi Anniepan. My Ds2 was dx with autism when he was 2.6, and was referred to a paed just after his 2 year check, as I was concerned about a lot of his behaviour. A lot of what you have put is very similar to my DS2, so I would be aiming towards getting a referral. I was referred through my HV, althouh she was useless and thought I was being a paranoid parent. She was very apologetic afterwards, not that I expected her to be.

You're his parent, you know him better than anyone else, so please push for a referral.

He sounds very similar to my dd2 at that age too. We got a referral at around 20 months (i think) mainly due to the lack of speech (dd did not talk at all or make any noises), dd2 hardly ever cries, when she falls over she just gets up and carries on (last year she fell all the way down the stairs and just got up and walked away) . DD2 was diagnosed with ASD last year (at the age of 3.4) but we managed to get a lot of help (speech therapy, music therapy, special needs nursery) before we got a diagnosis. I think the fact we got early intervention has helped so much, dd2 is now 4 and is talking (still behind) and her understanding is improving each day.

Ask you GP or HV for a referral (you might have to push a little), follow your heart (you know your child better than anyone else and if you feel there is a problem then you need to get other people (your GP/HV) to see what you see, write everything down (like you have in your post) and go through it with your GP/HV.

Bu the way Annie

I hope youa re OK, I have this flash that getting agreement may be ahrder than anticipated.

Nonw of us know your child but its standard advice on MN that if you ahve any worries you should get tejhm checked. You can cancel a place on a waiting list but if three months down the line your concerns increase youc an't jump to the top. Always better to get a check.

And autism is not the end of the world. Admitteedly a lot of the paperwork / politics that accompanies it is a PITA but our kids are speical, and adorable, and clever and loved.

Witht eh caveat that I think you should geta check, I also have 4 children and ds4 at 2 is classed as high risk as he ahs 2 asd siblings. I am studying ASD at post grad level. I still ahve no idea if he has any traits, and certainly could not have given an answer at 15 months. So don't be down hearted but equally don't play ostrich either. It is proven that the quicker asd kids get help the better they do.

annie a lot of your ds's behaviours remind me of how my ds was at 15mths...I second seeing your GP for a referral to a developmental paed. (or a community paed). because not all GPs are necessarily clued up on ASDs. Although your ds is still quite young for a dx of ASD, it could take several months for a paed. referral to come to fruition by which time your ds could be 18mths old...which is, AFAIK, a cut-off for waving and pointing, i.e. if these skills are absent by 18mths, then they should be taken seriously.

In the meantime, here is a link to the CHAT test: www.firstsigns.org/downloads/m-chat.PDF

Good luck and keep us posted.....

annie, I had very similar concerns at 14/15 mths, no waving, no words, no sounds, limited play except with opening and shutting boxes. We went privately for a dx and it was the best thing we could have done.

Since then ds at 18 months has come along amazingly - he can do the shape sorters now, he has a vocab of about 10-15 words (behind his age, but great for him). He now waves all the time and says 'bye' - Partly it may be related to his delayed development, but partly also that we got a 'working' diagnosis, we started up with an at-home program to help him and are basically a lot more tuned in to what we need to do to help him. Autism or no autism, we know ds needed help and the paed's report just helped us access resources/help.

Thank you SOOOOO much to you all.... I rang the HV yesterday and the first thing sugested is because we now have no 4, he's come along and no 3 will regress......
but im going to stick to my guns she is coming round next Tuesday...
I really apprecaite all your feedback and info and the support coz right now i feel pretty alone about it all... I look at him and cry, I dont want there to be anything wrong I'm sure you've all had the same feelings etc, but Thank you all for being there.. I love the cyber world xx

I'm sorry to say this but most HVs are not trained in the complexities of ASDs. One HV glanced at my ds and breezily announced, 'oh he's got good eye contact and he's playing and pressing buttons on his toys' . I was also told boys take longer to develop than girls, are later to talk than girls, etc. All rubbish really when you have genuine concerns.

If you feel dissatisfied at the end of your HV's visit, then I would make an appt. with your GP asap and press for a referral to a developmental paed/community paed.

Does your ds ever point?

MannyMoeAndJack ... no pointing am i being parnoid or are all these things really adding up to something ???

AFAIK, lack of pointing is significant if is still absent by 18mths. How does your ds communicate his needs to you/others? What is his eye contact like and can he engage with you/others when playing (I'm talking here about what is known as 'joint attention', e.g. you hear a sudden noise, turn to look, focus on it for a moment and your dc wonders why you are distracted and looks at your eyes/face for clues and then follows your gaze - whereupon you are then jointly attending to the same event).

Don't forget your ds could be fine but because you have concerns, you are doing the right thing to get him checked out..

i guess he just comes over to me head down arms up if he wants something.. i suppose i dont help as i'm pretty in tune to what the noises mean.. maybe i should try to encourage him to express a bit better, he doesnt like playing with others . certainly doesnt play with anyone, if i try to sit down and do something together he just goes and does his own thing, he might wonder over but thats as far as it goes .... my elder boys are teenagers and ow i'm just confused as to what they were doing at that age.... heshows no intersest in wanting to feed himself with a spoon/fork does that mean anything?? xx

I would say that the self-feeding is a bit secondary at the moment - his communication/social skills are more important. It can be tricky to tell at 15mths whether there is something not quite right or not but you have concerns and you should follow your instincts but whatever happens, don't blame your parenting because there's a 99.99% chance that it isn't to blame.

I can remember when my ds was 15mths old, he didn't point, didn't wave, had no words, didn't play (pushing cars along, etc), didn't join in with games (even basic games like peek-a-boo), had fleeting eye-contact, etc etc. I desperately wanted him to be 'just' delayed but deep down, I knew there was something more. It is a very anxious time but your ds will still have his strengths on which you will be able to build.

Keep asking questions if you need to.

Annie, my HV was useless, and told me DS2 couldn't have autism as he knew the difference between hot and cold (he was hopping off the rug onto the cold floor).

DS2 hated anything in his hands, even finger foods, up until he was 18 mo, and never fed himself with a spoon/fork until he was well over 2.

Not trying to frighten you, or make you feel bad, but your ds sounds very similar to what my DS2 was like as a toddler. He is 4 now, and although he still does these things, they are easier to handle .

Good luck with your HV, Tell her you want a referral and if she says no, then go to your GP.

Hi Anniepan I'm lingle.
If you can afford it, i believe you might find it very useful to work through the book "More than Words" published by Hanen. I think the UK distributor is Winslow.

Whether or not he ever gets a diagnosis of autism or anything else, this is a terrific book. It is very popular on this forum. It is very positive and optimistic. It starts by helping you make sense of some of his unusual likes and dislikes.

I'm not suggesting this is in any way an alternative to the referral (and of course you would need to rule out any underlying medical conditions anyway) but others have pointed out on this thread that you can sometimes get help (and that includes self-help) more quickly than getting a diagnosis.

have you looked into floortime - that is also a good technique for encouraging playskills. Again you do not need to enrol on any program, but just by reading on the website, you can find ways to encourage play with your child.

every autistic child is so different, and hence the difficulty with diagnosing at such a young age.

Sometimes it can be the lack of only one, but very essential skill that can put your child in the spectrum. my ds at 18 months ,waves, points to share his interest, eats with a spoon, has quite a few words, is very social around adults and children, no repetitive play and great eye contact. But according to the paedatrician he is austistic because he lacks imagine play.

thank you thank you thank you... all of you
i've just ordered the book suggested, have begun muchmore floor time than we do all ready, about to embark on a casein /gluten free diet ( currently has no cows milk etc as allergic, but given him goats instead, so going to change that) seen some stuff about a woman in the states Jenny /mccarthy, going to wor through itall.. oh and have the HV coming tues and docs app thursday.. although he'd already told me not to change his dairy intake with his poor skin, ut we did it anyway i dont think hell take too lightly to a complete casein/gluten free diet.. but you know what I know #3 better than anyone of these professionals and am wiling to give it a go.....
will keep you all posted, i've really been grateful more than you all know for your support xx

ooh by the way.. i've changed my name! lol Anniex

great. The more knowledgable you get, the more you can get out of the health professionals too......

Hi Anniepan4.

I'm a Paediatric Occupational Therapist from the States, now living in London. I find it very inspiring to hear about all that you have already done to help your little boy.

I just joined this forum today and am a bit hooked! Since moving to London I've been so tired of hearing about the 'wait and see' approach, 'your child will grow out of it', it's 'too early for therapy', etc. It's great to 'meet' albeit through cyberspace, parents who believe so strongly in prevention and Early Intervention, and advocating for each other.

Anyways.........from what you have written about your little boy, it sounds like the symptoms described also fit under 'Sensory Processing Disorder' (SPD). I don't know if it's Autism or SPD. However, I have treated children with similar symptoms at a really young age and they have made such huge gains and improvements.

Here are some links on Sensory Processing or Sensory Integration-my favourites are the first one and Sensory Smarts. Sensory Smarts has a Tip of the Week that you can sign up for and they're really practical and useful.

www.sensory-processing-disorder.com

www.spdfoundation.net

www.sensorysmarts.com

www.out-o f-sync-child.com

www.comeunity.com/disability/sensory_integration/index.html

It sounds like it may also be worthwhile getting an assessment from an Occupational Therapist who specialises in Sensory Processing.

Hope that helps, and all the best to you.

Munira

Goodness me ot you're going to be overrun with messages on here if you're not careful.

My GP wouldn't refer ds (3 with Asd) to an OT because he's too young to have an occupation. My Paed wouldn't refer because the OT dept doesn't accept referrals for children with asd because they get to set their own criteria and if they did they'd be overrun.

Hi
I don't look on here very often at all- I am a professional and not a Mum...but Early detection and early intervention are my key areas of interest in both my independent work and in my research and the focus of the charity and centre I am setting up here north of the border....there is not a huge amount of belief in the UK amongst paeds/ HV/ SALTS etc that ASD can be detected at such a young age- however in the states it is a different case
have a look at this link as I think it is really useful- www.firstsigns.org/
and if you can get portage or similar then push for it as soon as possible- it doesn't matter at this stage if the intervention you receive is autism specific or not- just specific to the needs of your child and focuses on the key areas of communication, interaction and play
If you want to email me OT and let me know where you are based I might be able to point you in the direction of some local support/ services/ other families...
[email protected]
Best wishes
Ruth