Running away from the other boards...

[debs40]

...and hiding here.

I am supposed to be working but on this Easter morning, full of the joys of not being at bloody school, I've got myself in to a right battle of something stupid on the Primary Ed board and have the weight of teacherdom turn on me.

I should have known better than to venture into the outside world of mumsnet with the lovely 'normal' NT kids all getting 3s for the SATS etc etc

All my pent up angst about school came gushing out as I sat here angrily typing and crying .

Silly mare.

But on a serious note. The more I wrote about school, the more I realised what a bunch of sh**ts they'd been all year and how many battles await me when I return.

Do you ever feel you are losing the plot? I make such a fuss about everything now, I seriously don't always know whether I amm doing the right thing. Is DS happy where he is? Am I making too much of everything? How can a 7 year old with SCD be relied on to tell me either way?

Then I carry him back from a walk yesterday or hold his little putty like hand and wonder how if he ever remains upright through a school day without all the other stuff

Are there better schools out there? Someone on Primary Ed posted about one in Dorset which looked lovely - SEN policies and DDA statements on their website! Not alot to ask

Sorry, getting incoherent now.

I venture into the nt world now and then but have got skin like a rhino but now and then I retire back to here and grab a breath but then ds neither fits in Sn world or a nt one

oh and I'm always making fuss just moved and made it clear to new lea they want to play hardball with me I can throw right back .end of day our dc need us because we know and want the best for them not tied by purse strings

Pick your fights debs!
You need to make a prioritised list of all the things your son's school should be doing, and how often. Then you need to keep on at them to implement everything you've agreed effectively.
There are a lot of experienced teachers who post on the other boards, and they could help you out, tell you what's possible and ideas you could give the school when they say 'No, it's not possible' Tell you when they're not being honest.
Saying that we're an untrustworthy lot because we use the same pen to mark all work, and don't change our handwriting is muddling the issue and blurring your priorities.
This board is the place to rant and foam at the mouth, I've done it often enough.

Goblin.... I didn't come back to this board to re-hash the arguments. I think that is unfair. I didn't say you were all an untrustworthy lot. My son's teachers, however, have proved to be. My upset there arose because it is obvious that some teachers are not prepared to accept they ever act in anything other than an entirely perfect way. This is not, frankly, the experience of most parents because it is not how normal people act.

I made it clear on this post that I had started to post about one issue on Primary ED and then realised that I was actually angry about something else.

The thing is it always comes back to ME the parent doesn't it? I will not be blamed for my son not getting the help he needs. Your suggestion is that I should prioritise and I should tell teachers what to do. WHY? There are problems with this because:

1. Teachers DO NOT WANT to be told what to do and refuse to follow what I suggest in any event

1. Teachers may not know much about SEN but the have access to resources (internal and external). For example, there is an IDP on ASD, have they looked at it? No. Have they accessed Ed Psych? No. Have they accessed Autism Outreach? Under considerable pressure from the Community Paed

1. Pursuing this with them to the utmost of my ability, whilst endeavouring to remain calm and supportive, has soured my relationship with the school. Why? Because they don't want to be told what to do by me or anyone else and would rather pretend everything is fine

I am not used to having to so carefully pick and choose my words with ADULT PROFESSIONALS so as not to upset (or cause them stress) them by making reasonable requests for specific help. We are talking about a child not their pride.

So thanks for posting here too but from the posts on this board, my experience if far from unique and the fact is that if teacchers were less defensive and prescious about stupid things like bulk marking work, we might all trust them a little more

Oh Dear - not liking teachers - bad move Debs. I tried it once and am still picking up lumps of shrapnel. (only joking Goblin - you're lovely )

I can empathise and sympathise with you Debs. It sometimes feels like trying to nail jelly to the wall.

Small steps are what are required - but a big deciison has to be made. Do you peresevere with these deadbeats or start looking elsewhere for a suitable placement.

Remind me - what stage are you at with Statementing etc? That's the key to unravelling this mess.

Best wishes

Debs, I never meant you to feel I was blaming you in any way, your school sounds absolute rubbish if they are not doing basic things that other schools are doing easily.
Not accessing outside specialists, you writing his IEP, that's just crap management and indifference. If the inclusion team and IPSEA haven't had much success, then you are up the creek.
What other schools are there that might meet his needs better? Can you move him again, or home ed him?

Hi Debs, which school in Dorset was mentioned? (just being nosy), we are trying to get dd into SN school, i she doesn't get in we will be looking for a suitable school in Dorset.

Dd1 (AS) is happy at her MS school but we are looking to move her due to the school being not perfect and bullying (dd1 still wants to stay even though she has no real friends).

As for posting on other boards, i always regret doing it but i still go back and do it again .

I haven't started Wet.

I still don't have a full OT report as assessment is ongoing.

We still don't have a dx as the waiting list around here is about to be picked up by another Trust brought in to clear it and there is just confusion.

DS has not been seen by the Ed Psych.

ASD outreach go in later this month but don't speak to parents which is a bit of a worry as when the ASD psych went in the teacher told her DS was fine - even school were a bit perplexed by that.

I find the basic problem is that there is no real understanding of the little everyday issues which arise on a daily basis. For example, what to do when DS doesn't like going out in the rain or preparing for change (demonstrated by them removing the TA he felt comfortable with).

I saw that thread Debs -don't worry.I got what you were trying to say (and am a teacher) as I'm in a similar situation.

debs, heartfelt sympathies. (but goblin is a nice teacher - they do exist!)

how old is your DS?

the school sounds pretty much as my DS primary school was, and no matter how much i did, what information i got, what diagnosis he got, they steadfastly refused to acknowledge it.

if its got that bad, then you need to find another school. (i speak from experience)

also, get yourself a copy of the special needs code of practice.
then go see your GP, a diagnosis may help in terms of understanding for your son. i asked my GP to refer my son to a specialist in ASDs, and they funded it, he had been doing the rounds locally and no one would commit to a dx. ongoing assessment is fine but it needs to end sometime.

if there is one thing i regret its not going to tribunal. id have won. but i always doubted myself.

best of luck,

Thanks all.

Thanks Goblin. I know what you were trying to do. But it always feels like you have to micromanage everything and no one wants to help then you get the blame for being involved in the first place as this is a matter for teachers!

I also worry as we are in an 11+ area and the schooling here seems very competitive so I think schools' priorities just aren't with SEN. I really do think ths affects things and I feel we are a nuisance to be honest that they could do without.

I kind of feel we might have to move altogether but I don't know where and I'm terrified of making the same mistake. He is 7 and this is his 2nd school. DS2 is due to start school in Sept too - what to do????

Vicar, there is an ASD pathway here which I understand the PCT fund so they will refuse to fund referral out of area. I am awaiting a letter from the MP about it as he wrote on my behalf.

Marne, the school wasn't mentioned explicitly but I think it is this www.lulworthwinfrith.dorset.sch.uk/

Thanks Debs40, reading your posts make me think dd1's school is not too bad, last year they refused to except dd1's DX of aspergers but this year they seem to have taken it on board and are now helping to get he assessed for dyspraxia on the other hand dd1 was being bullied and left out by the others and the school hadn't noticed, eventually dd told me and i spoke to her teacher, also dd1 gets no 1:1 help and the school have been unhelpful with dd's physical problems.

By the sounds of things, this area is very good for ASD, we have had a lot of help/advice and very fast and easy DX's for both dd's.

Are you in NW debs?

No, SW.

okay

I am going across to hide the thread and shall not darken primary ed's board again - or at least for a while!

I know I am silly getting myself in to such a pickle. I don't know what I thought I was doing.

I'm looking for the Holy Grail!

Ok Debs - don't take this as kick-ass time but....

A formal dx is not necessary before requesting an assessment for a Statement - as you know.

Obtaining a formal dx may take some time - menawhile son's probs at school continue unabated.

There is a way to cut through this and that's to bite the bullet and apply for an assessment - now.

He will then be seen by Ed Pysch, Comm Paed (who can fast-track the ASD assessment process) etc etc. School may even be so fed up with you that they tell the truth to the LA and strengthen your case for an assessment.

But you need to know what you want. What is it that school / anyone can do for him that will assist him - cos that's what you want delivered by a Statement.

Forget chasing around Britain for suitable schools - if he needs one. There are planty closer to you than Dorset.

So that's may advice - stop chasing around in circles / worrying / waiting etc and slap in a request. They can only say No. you're a lawyer - you know how to put a case together and if you don't i know a brilliant solicitor in Bristol.

So go and kick ass

If I apply for a SA this will not be supported by school at this moment and I will have to challenge it.

That will probably end my relationship with school who will think I am acting OTT>

I need the OT's report to help set out his problems. And he isn't 'failing'.

I suppose I don't feel I entirely understand his needs without the assesssment being completed particularly by the Ed Psych.

Hi debs40

I have no advice or anything, just looking for plenty! Am new to these forums so hope not rude and presumptuous of me but but had a look to see what you had written to prompt such a desperate running away back to this forum. (Have just found these forums and have been devouring - a bit obsessively to be honest - entries old and new as so amazing to find other people experiencing same things as we are.) Your post on t'other forum was so clearly the desperation and letting off of steam of a parent about their own personal situation and I think it was unfair of some of the teachers who commented to take it as an attack on them and their profession. I do have friends who are teachers who are still able to listen to and have a jolly good rant about things that go wrong with our own children's education, without getting professionally defensive.

I just wanted to say really that I felt really bad for you and hope you have been able to pour a glass of wine or something and feel better. I would feel awful if I got such a hard time, but perhaps had better get a thicker skin if I want to keep posting! Hope will not get shot down for being so nosy and reading your other post

And hope you get somewhere with sorting school things out, sounds awful.

Our worst bits are mostly at home, trips to shops etc. DD2 seems to put all her energy into school so they can't see what problem is and save difficult behaviour for us. Have just spent last two hrs (not an exaggeration) getting DD2 into shower - she hates washing and is getting worse. Wish I could get TA support at home! Have just poured glass of wine (I know it is only 6pm).

Sorry post too long, need to get hang of shorter ones. Hope ur feeling better.

Debs
I'm really struggling with your response.

He doesn't need to be 'failing' at school he just needs to be experiencing difficulties that the school are unable / unwilling to support.

If you wait until he's 'fialing' you've waited too long.

The fact that school won't support your request is frankly irrelevant. You just need to make your own case for assessment.

An Ed Pysch will run the tests etc and make some stereotypical suggestions about possibilities that may help - but YOU are the expert on your child - not an Ed Pysch. if I'd followed half the useless advice I've been given by some of these 'professionals' both son and I would be basket cases by now.

I really don't understand this relucatnace to upset school (further) or start looking for an alternative school. Who cares if the school think you're acting OTT. They don't care about his eventual outcome - as far as their concerned he's just another pupil passing through. However you should be very concerned as you know early intervention leads to a much better outcome. Crumbs if i had a quid for every poxy teacher / doctor / LA official I'd upset I'd be typing this from the flaming cayman Islands.

You don't need to wait for dx / Statement etc to do this. You may find that a more understanding setting will allleviate many of his problems.

Also, why are ASD Outreach involved without an ASD dx? Can't you put pressure on them to get the referral accelerated.

have you considered buying your way out of this mess - commission own provate Ed Pysch report / Clinical Psychologist dx?

I just don't think that letting things progress at their rate rather than your rate is viable - as it will only keep you in your current state of stress every time school screws up - which they will continue to do.

Would you consider getting independent assessments now, debs? You can get a private assessment for ASD through a private paed or psych. It's what I did after I got exasperated with CAMHS and it was enough to get things going with a stat assessment. Other people have said that private reports get ignored but I didn't find that - also CAMHS eventually confirmed dx anyway, but who knows how long it would have taken if I hadn't nudged things forward?

Cambian run some amazing schools and they have some in Dorset. I'd encourage you to ring and look around them. Even if you think a placement isn't suitable or obtainable at this stage, it will open your eyes to just how effective schools can be when they are adequately resourced and run by properly trained staff. Even their cleaners get training in ASD!

Debs can I just second the advice about independent reports especialy an EP one. We had lots of problems with my daughter's old school; lying teachers backed up by Head etc. and having our EP spend most of the day there really moved things on. The report she did was very hard to read.

The school cannot refuse either.

Thank you guys very much.

MelJLincs - welcome and thank you for taking the time to read my other post. I did think they were overly defensive which is what made me so upset really. You can't get anywhere if teachers interpret everything through the prism of how it makes them look rather than how it helps the child.

Wet - you are right, right, right. I know. You always are!!! You can just have your confidence ground sometimes and it is an isolating business when you are stuck in the daily grind. I know I don't need school but I was kind of hoping that once the reports were through I could show them to school and then explain better why I was going to crack on and do what I'm going to do - apply for an SA.

I think ASD outreach come in because the waiting lists are so long here and any child who is on the formal SCD list is considered ASD pending specific dx. I'm not sure they're going to do much though.

I am considering throwing money at the problem but I would like it draw some sort of end to things. The tertiary referral centres don't take private referrals. The Dyscovery Centre does and would do an Ed Psych assessment as well as OT and ASD but it would cost about 3k. I can't see anyone arguing with their conclusions though.

The point about moving on is that we have been here a long time (years) but we have never bought a house as it really isn't where we want to be and we don't entirely feel comfortable here. We have always been overtaken by events - notice to quit, DH's job moves, family issues.

The place is very traditional, very pushy and old fashioned and parochial and I don't think the secondary schools would be much good even for my bright, bouncy DS no.2. So we do feel we need a plan and I'm running myself round in circles.

I am waiting on this letter from the MP - apparently a response is on its way from the hospital to tell me whether they will refer out of area or if not how long a dx assessment will take.

Perhaps we should just crack on and go to the Dyscovery Centre. Get that sorted and then see where we go

THANK YOU all very much for your time and very kind and supportive posts.

I feel safe again posting amongst friends....

Probably

Sorry, I didn't mean friends probably.... think I meant to start another sentence!!