multi disciplinary meeting - confused

[claw3]

Ds has come home with a letter in his book bag stating the school are organising a multi-disciplinary meeting and will inform me of the date.

Im confused!

1. Ds has never had a multi-disciplinary assessment, so who will the school be inviting?

1. Do you need to have a MD assessment before you can have a MD meeting.

The only person who has been into school is senior SALT to assess after Paed requested this.

Starlight, I do take minutes, I have written his IEP, I have told the school what targets.

I sent it to the school attached to my letter.

X physically separates himself from the rest of the class if a lesson involves an activity he dislikes and he becomes non commutative when addressed.

To help x become more comfortable with daily routines and transitions from one activity to the next, x will use his NOW/NEXT visual timetable, supplied by x. X will prompt x to check his timetable after each activity and cross it off/cover each activity after it has happened and look to see what is next.

x will be able to use his visual timetable and cross off/cover each activity after it has happened without prompting.

Miss X will observe x during this time and fade out prompting when appropriate.

x struggles to get undressed/dressed for PE

x will use his NOW/NEXT visual sequence chart, (example enclosed) supplied by x. X will prompt x to check his chart to see what item of clothing to put on/take off next. A sticker will be given for doing well as incentive. (

x will be able to undress/dress himself in less than 10 minutes, at least once a week.

Miss x will observe Jacob during this time and fade out prompting when appropriate

X finds it difficult to build positive relationships with peers

1. x will be provided with the opportunity to play a game of question and answers, in a group, supervised by miss x, x amount of times each week/month, where each child take turns asking questions about each other and providing a short answer. This can be explained to him that a good conversation is where both people get to share the talking equally.

1. x will be provided with the opportunity to role play in a group, the situations he has trouble with: initiating a conversation, joining in another child's activity, or inviting another child to play a game. supervised by Miss x, x amount of times each week/month

1. x will be provided with social stories provided by Miss X about how to handle criticism and rejection from others and managing disagreements with compromise instead of emotional outbursts. The appropriate behaviour and comments to end the interaction. These will be read to x once a day by Miss X.

1. X will be provided with the opportunity to work in a small group as a team (perhaps building a joint Lego model or a drawing a joint picture), supervised by Miss X, x amount of times a week/month and learn how to incorporating the ideas and suggestions of others into an activity. Give and take in conversation and activity. Recognizing and understanding the opinions of others. Empathizing with others in both positive and negative situations

For x to able to build positive relationships with peers.

x will be observed by X during these activities and will receive praise and feedback on how well he did and what he could do to handle situations that arouse during these activities.

etc, etc, etc, etc.

The school are planning to have this MD meeting with limited professional there ie SALT to agree that if ds is 'doing just fine' without any intervention, that they dont need to give any help, to shut me up once and for all.

They can quote we had a MD meeting and everyone agreed that ds didnt need the help you are asking for.

SENCO commented to me during our last meeting that the kids with statements didnt get the amount of help im asking for!

Obviously i am going to have to turn this around and get as many professional there to agree with me.

Claw

Was your son a hospital in-patient?

If so, there is a little known clause in the SEN COP that states that the LEA must undertake an assessment for possible need for a Statement if a child has a spell of 3 or more days in hospital.

Could you use that to get what you want?

Do you get where im coming from, everyones suggestions have been great of what help to ask for and i have copied them down. But before i can discuss WHAT help, i will have to convince the meeting that he actually NEEDS help.

The school supplied me with their IEP and i responded with my IEP, a week later i had a meeting with the school to discuss the IEP and they told me ds wasnt having the problems stated in their IEP anymore, so he didnt need any help.

Totally unbelievable that all his problems had disappeared a week after writing the IEP. They are obviously lying. But when im sat in room full of professionals and the school are saying they have no concerns, im going to look very silly insisting that they do.

Hi wetaugust, wow thats amazing, do you know where i get info about this?

He was an in-patient for 4 days, my black cloud has been lifted

Claw

If you have reached the point where you genuinely feel you are being lied to and this doesn't change after the meeting, you have to change schools.

I know from experience with a nursery school that you cannot leave your child with people you do not trust to tell the truth. It is the road to nowhere.

So, if you feel that whatever you say, these people will not do anything to help, that they are prepared to lie and not see the obvious (and I don't doubt this for a moment), then you can either try and force them to change, by applying for statutory assessment and a statement or move.

You can of course, do both! WetAugust's point is a great one to take. But if you don't trust these people, you will always be chasing them

I think, for what it is worth, that you need to get out of that place.

Debs, up until this point i thought the school just had a severe lack of knowledge and understanding and perhaps the 'he doesnt have these problems anymore' was due to lack of communication and being lazy.

His class teacher never attended any meetings and SENCO goes in one day a week, so has not even met ds. The learning mentor, is aware of who ds is, but doesnt see him as he doesnt use his card! The same as the Head.

So the 'doesnt have these problems anymore' i think ds behaviour isnt monitored or info recorded properly, they dont observe him at lunch time, playtime or in the class room. When i asked how they knew he didnt have these problems anymore 'they asked his teacher'. His teacher refused to use visual timetables or sequencing charts for silly reasons 'we dont have room', 'i have nowhere to put them'. It boils down to she couldnt be bothered!

All of that is bad enough, but I would still like to believe this because its better than the alternative, that they are telling lies in order not to give him help.

But now im actually suspicious of a game plan going on. I could be wrong, they could have organised this meeting to put some action into place at long last. I suppose what goes on at the meeting will be the deciding factor.

The SENCO has never met your son? OMG. That can't be right? It certainly can't be best practice.

Follow your instinct Claw, I think it is the best guide us mums have. You've been right this far. If you go to the meeting and they're crap and deceitful, get yourself and your son out of it...it's sounding like a persistent mindf...k!

No she hasnt! she is only in school one day a week and if she has been so busy since November that she cant even return any of my calls, especially when ds is discharge from hospital, i doubt she has much time for anything else.

Debs, mindf..k it most certainly is! they have made me question myself endlessly. Thank god that SALT has noticed what i see and put it into a report, after 3 years of people doubting me, i was beginning to doubt myself!

I will apply for a statement, Starlight was right my confidence in doing so is not very high. I will try to find the clause that WA mentioned and apply ASAP.

Thanks its nice to know im not alone

Grr the more I read the more depressed I get. Claw, your version of the IEP sounds fab. I think you are right to be suspicious. I'd be tempted to tell the school you will be asking for assessment and if they say you won't get one say you will because of hospital stay (thats great I didn't know that!) they have to give you one. If they say everything ok etc then you can say well the professionals will be coming in to observe so we can get to the bottom of it. Might make them less likely to fob you off if they know they will be caught out. But ultimately if you get an assessment the authority are really likely to say given your son is doing well academically that his needs should be able to be met within the schools SN budget and not need statement. In our area schools expected to put in first 20 hours a week. So there is a good chance it will be thrown back to the school. And my experience is that you then get Autism Outreach team of teachers and they go into school (very occasionally) and tell them to do things but they cannot make the school do them, ie the school will probably be as bad whoever is telling them to do it. Ask the school and authority what the schools SN budget is and how it was spent last year - when a parent I know did this (she was told no money for 1:1) it turned out they had spent it on playground equipment and put a few "sensory" toys in there and called it SN.

"I would still like to believe this because its better than the alternative, that they are telling lies in order not to give him help"

I gave up months ago, our authority SEN officer told me all the kids at special school we wanted were basically vegetables, you needed a feeding tube to get in / get a statement, DS was not their responsibility until he was 3, the head teacher of SS had said school was unsuitable for DS, the SEN panel had seen the diagnosis reports in reaching their decision, and that she had definitely not lost a file of papers from nursery - all were lies - she even rang the nursery after the meeting to send the file again! We have had months and months of spurious reasons why DS does not need any help.

Re visual timetable - Debs you were talking about disability discrimination yesterday - not having room for a timetable must be not making reasonable accommodation - its like saying you can't bring a wheelchair into my class it takes up too much room. They can tape it to a desk FFS.Or do they have a Smartboard? They can put electronic version down the side of a Smartboard I'm sure.

But ultimately you will have to move. Your DS can't afford this. He needs 1:1 at playtimes and not just any 1:1 but someone trained. Hopefully the SALT will back you up??? The SALT can recommend timetables etc. The Teachers who ran our earlybird course had numerous stories about schools who refused to implement recommendations. You can ask the SALT for her service to come and run a weekly social skills group.

Read this about complaints. I think you have grounds for a complaint to OFSTED and ask them to come and inspect!

Grumpy, i have just realise we met at bibic didnt we? You would have seen the state of ds's face and hands.

Sorry my head is all over the place, how are you? Thats terrible, that she lost a file. Why cant they just come clean. I would have a lot more respect for someone who can say i made a mistake it wont happen again.

The school described ds as 'average', which totally conflicts with the bibic and ed psy report where he scored extremely highly in all the tests and was described as a 'gifted learner'. Ed psy also identified his reading and spelling age of 7 years old. He is placed in the 'bottom groups' because he has special needs and its the only group with support, the other children in the group have learning difficulties and he gets a reduced work load, ie 5 spellings instead of 10, gets books to read with one line in them etc, etc. I havent mention this to the school as i thought there were more important things to sort out first. So he is not behind, but unless they start treating him as an individual, i suppose he soon could be.

I agree, it is discrimination and i am wasting too much time trying to get the school to admit that he needs help. I can use their IEP and the fact that they have made referrals to outside agencies to prove they must feel he needs help. A complaint to the Board of Governors too?

The school were planning on using the school SALT and not the Senior SALT who did the assessment. The school SALT does first assessment, then refers onto the senior one if she identifies problems. I can ask the senior SALT to attend, she can only say no.

I recently had to complain to the new borough about not having sensory OT. I seem to do nothing but complain lately!

Thanks Grumpy for your patience, it must be very boring for those who have already been there and done that!

Oh and thanks for the link, i have bookmarked it and will set about complaining tomorrow.

I cant find the clause that WA suggested, would i have to quote this or can i just say literally what WA quoted when if i apply for assessment?

Claw
I can't find the reference. I know it applies because my son attended hospital daily as an out patient for 6 months and I was desperately hoping they would admit him so i could invoke the clause.

I downloaded and squirreled away so much info at the time I can't find it now . I think it was a DfeS Circular, probably 14/96 which I can't access as it's been superseded by other guidance (no doubt suitably watered down as it talks about 15 days). IPSEA could probably quote you the exact reference.

One document I did find useful useful was "Access to Education for Children and Young People with Medical Needs" - the Dept of Ed guidance to schools etc.

It states what you should expect when you child is in hospital and on discharge. Paras 3.6 & 4.5 tells the LEA that they should consider an assessment of SENs.

The school/LEA should have put together a plan of action to reintegrate him back into school.

The document is full of useful info.

Thanks wetaugust, i have been googling like crazy trying to find it! I did come across the 'access to education for children and young people' link funnily enough and bookmarked it so i will take at look at what you suggest.

Within it is also stated 'if a child cannot attend school because of sickness or injury the LEA must arrange suitable education for them, if less than 3 weeks the school must provide work for the child to do at home'

They have reported me to the attendance officer, for their failings and i shall add your action to reintegrate him too. Thanks

Hi Claw

Mine was out of school from Jul one year until Feb the next when he was admitted to the hospital school. During that time the LA provided home tuition as GP had said he was too unwell to attend school.

Home tuition kicks in after 15 working days of absence from school on medical grounds and they are only obligedto provide 5 hours er week in basic national Cirriculum. More if teh child is facing exams. I got the LA up to 9 hours home tution before it all stopped when he enetered hospital school.

You school sounds crap - which is surprising because you say they have an ASD base attached. i woudl have expected them to be better informed about ASD/SEN support.

The IEP that they gave you actually describes a whole range of ASD behaviours - so why are they not looking to do a full assessment for ASD?

A multi-disciplinary meeting should involve everyone who is involved with the child - i.e. Ed Pysch, SALT, Drs, Social Worker, SENCO, parents etc etc - not just SALT, SENCO and you.

I woudl write back and tell them that yould would welcome a true MD meeting and tell them to arrange for all those people to be present. It's not your job to do this - that's why school has a SENCO.

Also take someone to make notes. That's vital. If you don't have a friend ring your local Parent Partnership and ask for someone to accompany you. They will.

As for failing to respond to your letters - as has been said - giv ethem a dealine and if they don't respond then refer the mater to the Head and then the Chair of Governors. You can also complain directly to the LA about the school's failure to act in paternership with you.

You also need a plan of action. These things will drift on indefinitely as they will be quite happy to string you along - it doesn;t cost them anything.

My suggestion would be

1. Tell tehm you want a proper MD meeting and you expect them to arrange suitable attendees

2. take frend / PP to the MD to make notes

3. Decide ifit's worth continuing at this school or whether you should look elsewhere. If it wasn't for the fact that the ASD base is at this school I woudl certainly look elsewhere. But my aim would be to get him into the ASD Unit at that school - for which you will need a Statement.

4. Apply for a Statement. He has chronic and acute SENs that have warranted hospitalisation. He is not improving and will need a lot of help to be proactively taught social and communication skills. That's what i woudl use as the bais of my own application to the LA for a statutory assessment. It's similar to what i used when I did this.

You need to take control and let them be under no illusions that they can string you along.

You have absolutely nothing to lose by seeking an assessment for a Statement and everything to gain. Don't let a fear of possible failue put you off. With you son's medical hsitory etc a Tribunal is almost certain to rule that they shoudl at least assess.

Best wishes

The school that ds is currently at doesnt have the ASD unit. The one i have applied for does, we are 4th on the waiting list for the mainstream school.

You and everyone else are right, i need to take control of the situation. I have been doubted by people with no knowledge of ASD for so long and without a dx or any reports until recently, i suppose i have been scared to speak up, just in case i was wrong.

I have written to the school today, requesting that they invite Ed psy, OT etc and have asked that they inform me if any of them cant attend.

I have taken notes of all the advice that you and everyone else have offered and i will set to work tomorrow.

Sorry Claw - I misread your post and thought the ASD base was at your current school.
In that case I wouldn't waste my time with the current school. They don't seem to realise that the behaviour they described in the IEP is pure ASD and that the interventions they suggested are pathetic! What makes them think his behaviour deteriorates when he doesn't like ceratin lessons. There could be many other reasons - sensory overload, phobias etc that ASD children can have about things. they have just taken the easy option without investigating what really makes him tick - and that's what an Ed Pysch assessment would reveal.

I took a look around an ASD base. It would have been the perfect placement for my son - but he was dx'd too late in life.

You want the best outcome for your child then the ASD base will probably provide it. He may be gifted but coudl still benefit from the ASD specific approcah to teaching. And being in a base menas he has access to the full Nat Cirric and opportunities to take the same qualifications as he would have in mainstream. It just provides a more sheleterd environment for those who have social and com difficulties.

But to get him there will almost certainly require a Statement - as you know.

Best wishes

Wetaugust, thats exactly it, the school have absolutely zero knowledge of ASD, and are not making the connection between his behaviour and ASD, thats why they have not done an assessment for ASD.

To the school and many others without ASD knowledge x will not join in with activities he dislikes and becomes non communicative when addressed = ds is sulking because he doesnt want to do something. Lack of discipline at home. Spoilt brat syndrome

X struggles on occasion to get himself undressed/dressed for PE = ds has been babied at home, mum lets him get away it.

Eating is also a concern as x has an extremely limited diet = Mum lets him eat whatever he wants.

X blames kids for hitting him at playtime = he is a liar.

Although it hasnt been said exactly the school think ds's problems are down to bad parenting. They even got TAMHS to come into school to interview me about ds's problems and my parenting techniques.

The fact that up until November this year, ds has never been assessed by anyone and no report had ever been written, so it just been my word against theirs.

They have added my concerns to the IEP as i did kick up a fuss about it, the fact that they didnt include any help, monitoring or targets for my concerns, suggests to me this was done only to try and pacify mum.

This meeting isnt going to be about WHAT help should be provided for ds, its going to be about whether there is any evidence that ds's problems are due to anything other than bad parenting.

Its not just the school who think like this. I have had dietitians telling me 'his diet is limited because you let it be, just dont allow him to eat the food he wants to eat'. My GP telling me 'dont worry he will grow out it'. Threads on here started about mothers trying to blame their child's behaviour on ASD or ADHD and people agreeing with them.

Unfortunately a lot of people take this attitude and until a child receives a dx or an expert to back you up, you are on trial.

Starlight, you are totally right, i do feel helpless, its the worst feeling in the world watching your ds suffer and desperately trying to get people to believe what you are saying, without any experts to back you up.

I havent just been standing by and letting it happen. I have had to make official complaints to the NHS about Paeds, OT, SALT and the service (or lack of it) that my ds has received.

As a result of my complaint SALT carried out an assessment in school in November and wrote a report. I visited bibic in December and paid for an Ed Psy assessment myself and now have reports from them. I have moved boroughs. Ds is on the waiting list for another school.

Ds's problems in school came to light in September 2009, ive been moving as fast i can.

Anyhow i did as you suggested and wrote to the school requesting that ASD outreach, Ed Psy, OT, Senior SALT, CAMHS and Paed be invited to the meeting. I also asked why my letters of the 24th November and 9th December had not been replied to and why the reasonable adjustments i had requested in my IEP had not been put into place as a matter of urgency in the meantime. I also enclosed copies of the school IEP, my IEP and letters and copied all the people i requested be invited to the meeting and the Head.

I will apply for a statement, but this takes times, complaints take time, the meeting will take time. I want something done now.

Starlight, yes i keep records and do exactly what you said by following it up in writing, i learnt from this mistake early on!

My doubts were about whether ds had ASD or not, i have received conflicting advise from inconsistent Paeds, GP etc over the years, yes he does, no he doesnt, lets wait and see, dont worry its normal for a child his age etc, etc. This has made it difficult when dealing with the school as they are from team 'no he doesnt'. Although to me it has become much more apparent over the years that he does have ASD, until i had my concerns validated by SALT assessment i didnt have the confidence to insist on ASD if you see what i mean.

I seem to do nothing but make complaints, appeals, appointments, letters, make notes etc lately, its taken over my life! Welcome to the world of SN i suppose!

Thanks for your help.