Funding in schools

[claw3]

How much help can or should a main stream school provide for a child with SEN?

Im assuming that a school would receive extra money for SEN, so can they really say they cannot give my ds who is on the action plus register any help at all because they dont have the funding or the time or the staff?

Surely he is entitled to SOME help without having to apply for a statement?

as far as I understand it, I am sorry to say that no, your ds is not entitled to anyhitng at all unless he has a statement.

of course, he SHOULD get help, and that is what (apparently) school action and school action plus were designe dfor.

in reality, there is not enough funding, as you have been told, and so there is nothing that can be done. and school action/action plus end up not being worth the paper they are written on.

the only thing that is enforcable is a statement.

Thanks Silverfrog, i was afraid someone was going to say that!

How heavily are expert reports relied upon in the statementing process?

My problem is that at the moment all i have is a SALT report highlighting things such as ds does not understand the concept of before and after and this could lead to him having problems following instructions etc.

In the meantime, ds is an extremely confused and anxious little boy, who has taken to pulling out his eyelashes and scratching the skin off of his face because of the stress and anxiety of school.

oh, your poor ds

I know it sounds extreme, but is taking him out of school an option?

I am totally the wrong person to ask about statementing - we have had a complete nightmare, and have been in the process for over 2 years now, with still no sight of a statement. we have changed dd1's school (had to move across country to do so), and then took her out of school as it was affecting her so much. we have found her a new placement, but are funding it ourselves while we fight the LA.

you've just been to BIBIC, haven't you? you'll get a detailed report from them, hopefully.

we used all dd1's paed reports, BIBIC, SALT reports for statementing initially, supplemented with private SALT and OT reports. they didn't help us much though, and we were offered 7 hours support a week for dd1 (moderate-severe ASD, with extreme chllenging behaviour by way of (charmingly) manipulating people)

are school onside with statememnting? as they have a whole section to fill in as evidence. so if they agree he needs a lto more help then they might pull out all the stops?

Aha, i paid privately for a Ed Psych assessment and should have their report in a week or 2. I am also waiting on a senior social and communication report (any day now), also a bibic report.

My other problem is that the school are not recognising ds's difficulties, because his behaviour doesnt cause anyone else any problems, then its not a problem if you see what i mean. For example he doesnt eat or drink a thing at lunch time, he soils himself, but doesnt tell anyone. He is extremely passive and all his frustrations are directed inwards, at himself ie low self esteem, self harming (unintentional)

My GP is crap and doesnt understand ds's behaviour at all.

All the reports from Paeds, Dietitian etc, all state 'mum says' ds has a problem with whatever, but no actual 'evidence'.

Should i wait for reports before applying?

I cant bear to send him to school anymore, without having any help in place.

He was admitted to hospital on Saturday, with impetigo caused by the constant open sores around his chin where he scratches himself. The infection spread all over his body and he had to IV antibiotics to prevent septicemia. The infection was so bad on his finger, the dr thought it had spread to his bone and it could have resulted in amputation (luckily it didnt)

Im really pissed off with having to rely on luck, i need some help put in place NOW.

Sorry Silverfrog, crossposted with you!

School are not onside at all, in their opinion ds doesnt need any extra help and that is exactly what he is getting.....nothing! He doesnt even have an IEP in place, im having to fight for that!

I have decided not to send ds back to school until some help, support and an IEP is put in place, what do i do next?

Who do i inform?

He cant go back until he has finished a 5 day course of antibiotics anyway, so that gives me a bit of time.

Hi Starlight, no social services involvement.

No HV, ds is 5.5, so we have moved onto the school nurse, i did leave messages for her, but she never got back to me and to be honest i saw her as just another person to have to try explaining ds to, so i havent bothered to keep chasing her up.

I have just hand delivered a letter to the SENCO, with a copy to the Head Teacher, stating the fact that ds has wiped and picked at his face and eyes to the point of injury, medical intervention and the risk of having a finger amputated has been extremely distressing and highlights my concerns that an IEP and some reasonable adjustments need to be put in place as a matter of urgency.

I have told them he will not be able to return to school as he is still infectious until he has finished a 5 day course of oral antibiotics and I would really like to get some help, support and an IEP put into place before he returns.

I have given them 5 days to response to this request, if they dont i will keep him off and write to the LEA and the Board of governors to tell them why.

I did give parent partnership a ring and they were crap. I told her my understanding of the IEP was that someone who had no knowledge of ds or his problems could easily implement the IEP and this was not the case with IEP the school had drafted. It isnt an IEP it is just a list of concerns and nothing else.

Her response was 'why is it a problem, does he often have a supply teacher'! ARGH!

claw, i agree with Satrlight, your ituation does sound extreme.

whereabouts in th ecountry are you? do you have any SN groups you can go to? (they won't cure anyhting, but don't underestimate the restorative powers of sitting in a room where the majority of people understand that fussy eating is not disliking peas!)

on the schools front, I'd ask the home educators what to do about de-registering if that is the way forward for you. they'll all know what to do.

I would not wait before applying for a statemnt. you have to write reams of stuff on how the situation is at home as evidence, and it will be a chane to get it al on record.

would you be up to (politely) calling the LA and talking it through with a case officer - along the lines of "ds doesn't eat at school. he is unable to. this is not acceptable. jhe needs support. ds is unable to ask for help with toiletting. this needs to be addressed. he needs support." etc, and going through all his needs? when they (inevitably) start wafflign about strategies to put inplace, try to pin them down a bit.

I do actually have a reasonably good case officer, who has agreed that dd1 wasn't getting the support that she needed (albeit in a roundabout way). Stating facts baldly often helps, I find. I described dd1's issues in minute detail "dd1 feels unable to use the toliet at school. she is dry at home. at school , she refuses to use the toilet, and will hold on all day. this results in either: dd1 refusing to drink so that she doen't need to go to the toilet, which is unacceptable and dangerous to her health, or dd1 holding on al day, which is unacceptable and dangerous to her health. in a year of attending school, school have been unable to address this issue. dd1 does not have this problem anywhere else, or with anyone else. the school is unsuitable"

,sprry to go on> and so on, for each problem with the school. once the issues are listed fully, it does become harder for the LA to state that your ds doesn't need a statement, or to claim that the school are coping.

on the IEP front - totally ridiculous! if your ds is on school action plus (fwiw), then surely the school themselves are stating he needs extra help? for him not to have an IEP is surely against COP? the school cannot have this both ways; if he needs extra help (thus action plus) they can't then turn around and say he needs no help!!!

Thanks Silverfrog, i have never heard of a case officer and wasnt even aware that you could phone them, this is a good idea, i will try.

I live in Kent, but ds's school comes under London Borough of Greenwich. I dont know of any SN groups in this area and yes i am feeling very misunderstood, i had to laugh at the pea comment, i have heard that so many times!

Yes he is on the action plus, but receives no extra help from the school or outside agencies! (OT did a runner, thats another story and we are on the waiting list for CAMHS, SALT has just done an assessment and made recommendations, none of which are included in the IEP!)

Ds is extremely passive, he isnt able to speak up or show emotion, instead of throwing chairs across the class room or screaming or crying, he sits and quietly scratches the skin off of his face and pulls his eyelashes. So the school feel he is 'coping really well'

Starlight, I have a statementing package from the National Autistic Society which includes a template, i will have to have a good look at it.

Academically ds does seem to be managing ok, although the Senior SALT is not sure how he is managing to do this, as she identified lots of processing dysfunctions (still waiting on her report). Ed psy identified in some areas he is very advanced ie anything non verbal, but when having to use words he is well below average. (waiting on her report also)

The school seem to think because he is not behind academically, he doesnt have any problems. Im having such a hard time trying to explain to them, that he is unable to apply the same logic in the 'real' world.

Claw

Stuff the IEP's, they're really not worth the aggro honestly nor the paper they are written on. The IEP is but a tiny tool in a very large package. I actually wryly smiled at the alternative name given to them on here, "Individual Empty Promise".

Nothing short of a Statement will have anything like SALT on it. Nothing. Not at all surprised to see these were not on the IEP - it is par for the course for such things.

Not really surprised either to see that PP were useless; they are not independent of the LEA at all and thus tow the party line. You really could do with speaking to a truly independent and thus not LEA controlled organisation like either IPSEA or SOS;SEN.

www.ipsea.org.uk - their website is informative and has lots of information on it.

You will have to kick butt with these people firmly to get anywhere, y'know the person who shouts loudest and all that.

Haven't heard about having two IEPs necessary before applying for Stat Assessment (that sounds like dodgy practice on your LEA's part to me Starlight), just apply for the Statement personally asap. If Greenwich LEA say no you can appeal the decision. You need to get that letter in asap (you will need to write to the Chief Education Officer at Greenwich LEA) and give them six weeks to reply.

Your DS is still young and his needs are not currently being met because there is not enough support in place to help him. Poor luv is barely coping and stressed out to the eyeballs. You are your child's best - and only - advocate.

Longer term as well I'd be wondering about moving your DS to another school particularly when you name the School on the Statement.

You are truly best placed to fight his corner. Because no one else will.

oh good lord, you have my sympathy if you are in Kent.

we used to live in Kent, before we moved (partly to get away form Kent LA, tbh!)

ironically, dd1 has now ended up going back to school in Kent. are you even vaguely close to Brands Hatch? I am currently travelling across to there form surrey (!) to take dd1 to school - if you want a coffee and a chat, I have all morning to fill... I will have dd2 with me (she is nearly 3, and NT) but she is reasonably well behaved.

I agree with Starlight - it doe ssound as though you are going to have to jump up and down and generally make a nuisance of yourself to get heard.

You shouldn't have to, but if you don't then they aren't likely to start providing support.

Starlight, I dont think you are being unkind at all, sometimes a kick up the arse is what is needed!

I wonder where ds gets his extremely passive nature from

Statement it is then, i will get to work on it tonight. Ive been thinking about it for some time and a kick into action was needed, thank you.

Silverfrog, Im in Welling, is Brands Hatch Swanley kind of way, if so not far at all.

Ds's school comes under Greenwich, which is even worse than Bexley!

yes, a bit south of Swanley.

If you want a meet and a chat, then I'm happy to oblige, but also understand if you'd rather not meet up with a random stranger!

I am struggling to imagine anyhting worse than Kent LA, they were an absolute nightmare. They signed dd1 off from SALT at age 3, because she was verbal.

Verbal yes, but it was ALL echolalia. So she could sing twinkle twinkle, and could recite Maisy books, but couldn't answer her own name or tell me she was hungry - obviously no great issues with language then

You are going to have a real fight on oyur hands if greenwich is worse. But it IS possible, and you are doing the best thing - getting help and advice on how to go about helping your ds.

Starlight, i have 2 draft IEPs from the school, i wasnt invite to the meeting, he just came home with the 1st in his book bag.

His teacher FROM LAST YEAR and the SENCO knocked one up in about 2 minutes flat from the look of it!

Silverfrog, Oh right, Brands Hatch is about 20 miles away then. Meeting up with someone who knows fussy eater doesnt equal not eating peas, we are practically family already!!

My email is law dot d at hotmail dot co dot uk.

Ds is the opposite he cannot recite a nursery rhyme, but has no problem with his abc's and phonics. I suspect because he is very visual, show him a picture and he can pick it up easily. Trying to sing a song, he gets all the words wrong as he doesnt hear it correctly.

Had to laugh when the Ed Psy asked him 'what would you do if you were cold and shivering' (expecting him to show how you shiver)

He replied 'get a blanket'!

Thank you everyone for your support and advice, i will start the statementing process later on this evening and no doubt i will be back to pick your brains again at some point.

Im feeling much more empowered and confident now, thanks again.