Would like your opinions on this please-PECS

[waitingforgodot]

We had our first meeting with Ed Psych who suggested PECS for DS (aged 3 currently being assessed for ASD). He has high levels of understanding but low levels of output if you see what I mean. He is still at 2 word sentences, mainly requests but we are working on that to try and build on it. The SALT has never mentioned PECS as an option and I am not sure how useful it would be. I admit I dont know that much about it but wouldn't he stop verbalising and rely more on giving me a picture?

I've just posted something about this on Starlight's thread - The Help wrt SALT but I'm not a PECS atm fan so probably very biased !

I have very positive experience of using PECs with a verbal child to increase sentence length- have recently sent a detailed e-mail to cyber on this topic about what we did - could you CAT me and I'll send it to you as well.

Morning ladies. Have sent a CAT request to you Totalchaos.
Hello Cyber, how are you? Will go check out Starlights thread

What TC suggests is excellent advice for a verbal child - but I don't think PECS purists would approve as it is not PECS as exchange/communication system.

Oh good-will look forward to receiving her email.
Did you try PECS or are you a bit of a cynic like moi?

WFG, we were in that sit with ds3 when PECs was suggested by BIBIC, when wegot someone to trial him the change was so quick- from pretty much non verbal to verbal in maybe 6 weeks?

Amazing things, I could eulogise them for hours, just seemed to give the idea of why he needed to communicate IYSWIM.

I'm not satying his language is fine now- he ahs ohysical issues as well, and is still seveely delayed- but has IMO a full verbal capacity affected by the autism, rather than a severe SLD problem, IYSWIM? When the asd is not having a bad day he is really communicative and chatty if you can understand him.

I have to admit We have never used PECS seriously. I wanted to introduce them when DS1 was about 2.6 and non verbal but NHS SALT said was 'too soon' . I employed a private SALt to start PECS but with no luck but to be fair. the private SALT was a lovely person but not experienced with PECS. Since DS1 became verbal about 3.6, I've kept a slightly open mind but am very put off by the zealous way they are advocated. But no, you won't find PECS carved on my heart when I die.....

cyber
NHS SALT "too soon"= I have no training in PECS so let me fob you off for a while?
Peachy-that sounds really positive.
So, do you reckon I should ask the SALT for her opinion?

PS when Ed Psych was in, DS managed to haul her by the arm saying "come on, bye" whilst trying to shove her out the house.
Obviously has the ability to use 3 words when under pressure

i agree with everytihng Starlight says and I know and understand PECS like the back of my hand.
Most SALTs don't really understand it (I'm a SALT) and most people have neither the discipline or creativity to extend it beyond use at snack time at early levels.
At the higher levels, it allows childen to create complex requests and comments
(eg 'I want the small blue car and the train.I need the key for the brown cupboard')

Many children (even those who want to communicate) have difficultiy with sequencing, auditory memory and attention so being able to lay out and build a complex utterance visually for a support with bverbalising it is enormously helpful.

We tried PECS with my ds, but tbh they didn't work for him.

I went on a 2 day course, and it was all very interesting, but my ds was beyond the level, that imho, PECS is aimed at.

I was out of pocket for the course, missed my ds's birthday for it, but I couldn't not go, iyswim.

Obviously, this is just my experience with my own ds, I felt I had to give it a try, there is no way I would have known without going that it wasn't going to work for ds, but I do wonder if the SALT/nursery etc. should have been able to advise me based on my ds's abilities.....

I did learn some useful stuff, but not enough to justify the expense.

How much does the 2 day PECS training cost and where did you all attend?
Thanks for your replies. They have def given me food for thought.

You need to check the pyramid website for info.

ok will do thanks

Here's the link Godot.Look under Workshops then under Basic 2 day Workshops.

thanks moondog-thats great!

I think it's very difficult to get advice about whether PECS will be right for your child. I think many NHS SALts do mean well and would not intentionally suggest it for a child that does not need it but lack of time with the child may mean that it is suggested more as something to do rather than something specific for that child. IME Ed. Psychs do not really know anything about PECS except that it is what is 'recommended' for autistic children. If your child takes to it fairly easily, it's another avenue to use and almost certainly will not be time wasted and it should open up new possibilities - but in my case DS1 did not take to it and I always got the feeling that it was him rather than the approach that was being seen as the failure. I do know there are massive gaps in his language but if a child can ask for a red apple or a green apple, why is he a failure because he does not want to pick up a card to do the same thing ?

Valid point CS

DS3 wasn't at that stage- he could understand what the apple was, very possibly knew he wanted it, but didn't actually ask- PECs seemed to help him get that bit.

I completely agree with you cyber. I am trying to explore all avenues though.
Just been reading about Denver Model. Do you know anything about it? (You are my font of all knowledge cyber!

I think what we did has a name but I've forgotten - Maybe the 'slave approach' ? But we rushed to give him anything he asked for so he would make the connection. He seemed to take to the 'I demand I get' approach very quickly ! But like most of these things, it's very child dependent.

I do think PECs might best serve those (or at least be a preference for) those who cn't do demand-get becuiase tehy don't demand, IYSWIM?

The basic thing learned by DS3 was the concept of requests, he had to find out why he should ask and PECs seemed to format that for him.

Completely agree and the assessment process needs to work better at finding those children in the pre requesting stage. I really do want to use visuals etc to build language but i am finding that PECS purists want us to start at base camp even though he has failed two attempts already. I am a bit puzzled all round as he got a surprisingly good language report from school - i would even say pushing at the boundaries of reality (I am not in denial, I know there are big problems) so if that's the level he is supposed to be at, why entry level PECS?

Can you try something similar to Totalchaos-but not PECS and not requiring you to go back to the start. Well done wee cyber for good school report!

I am realising more and more that it is a 'total system' - though no one has explained it as well as you. I still feel though that we don't want to be fully baptised into the faith but just to be agnostics with some visual supports along the way.

WFG - I am working on TC style ideas and hope to discuss them with SALT. I'm hoping for mutual agreement esp as PECS was not strong suggestion.