having a really tearful day that DS is not "normal" and is standing out

[hereidrawtheline]

After the major meltdown today where he went totally nuts and then yet again cited the spider that wont get off his neck I called his preschool leader to see if she could shed any light, since the spider arrived on Tuesday at school. she sang little miss muffet to him that day and he was giggling and laughing. we talked a lot and she said he does behave in a strange way, that he makes strange noises, loudly a lot and they have to keep reminding him to try not to. And he doesnt play with the children. And he cries and wonders if I will forget to pick him up etc. And I just got really choked up. The noises thing upset me. And also I have seen children talk to him and him ignore them but I know he likes these children because he talks about them when they arent there.

She said she will encourage relations with the 2 boys I mentioned he talked about a lot. And we are going to have a meeting and do a IEP. But it was just really sad that she saw these problems. And he is standing out like a sore thumb at preschool. I just dont understand how it has happened. And he is so beautiful and brilliant and funny and loving but he is not behaving in a "normal" way. He just isnt making sense. I am worried there is something very obscure psychologically wrong and I just dont know what to do.

Last night we tried removing the invisible spider from his neck and put it in the garden but it was back in 5 mins. Today his playworker came and she said she put it in her pocket and will take it home with her so fingers crossed.

He woke crying but not really awake every 30-60 mins in the night last night, in bed with me and needing me to settle him again. He just put himself to bed in my bed 30 mins ago and is now snoring next to me. I'll just let him sleep another 20 mins then make him get up so he can sleep tonight. Same thing I have doen the last 2 nights and it doesnt matter he still cant sleep but I feel I should be doing something. I am so upset. I wish I had someone to take care of me and love him with me. Of couse DH does but maybe I mean I wish I had a mum. I dont know.

Why not leave him asleep, it could be better for everyone, even if he wakes at 4am raring to go, if you also get an early night you can tackle it tomorrow?

I thought of that. We did that last weekend he took himself to sleep at 5 pm and we thought well there is no point waking him up to make him eat a dinner he wont want and then try to put him back to sleep. He woke up that night at 3 am.

I wish someone could just decide for me. DH gets really stressy when DS doesnt sleep well and I feel pressure to "get it right" to keep him happy as well as DS when I havent got any miraculous insight, I am as confused as anyone else. But DH gets a bit antagonistic about sleep things. We have different parenting styles and we are trying ot get on the same page with it.

I thought of that. We did that last weekend he took himself to sleep at 5 pm and we thought well there is no point waking him up to make him eat a dinner he wont want and then try to put him back to sleep. He woke up that night at 3 am.

I wish someone could just decide for me. DH gets really stressy when DS doesnt sleep well and I feel pressure to "get it right" to keep him happy as well as DS when I havent got any miraculous insight, I am as confused as anyone else. But DH gets a bit antagonistic about sleep things. We have different parenting styles and we are trying ot get on the same page with it.

sorry my MN did something odd then

re:sleep - sympathies - DS's sleep was awful after he started (crappy) nursery. Is the weighted blanket no longer helping? In terms of the "very obscure psychologically wrong stuff" - I guess you are still spooked by what the CAMHS guy said to you. But what you describe socially does sound consistent with ASD or other language problems. I wonder if it might be better for pre-school just to ignore relatively harmless things like the noises - or maybe try giving him a fidget toy or something sensory to play with to see if that helps him be quieter.

I have been wondering if it is possible for a child this young to have something like schizophrenia or bipolar.

He was asleep next to me earlier and he sat up eyes open, crying, patting the bed covers saying where is the spider and I said it isnt here there isnt one. And he went back to sleep. 5 mins later he looked at me and said "mama where are you I am stuck up high in a tree" and I said I was there. He went back to sleep. 5 mins later I sat up to talk to DH who had just got home and he said "mama you haev to have your arm around me" and so on. Then he woke up and just started speaking all his nonsense words he makes up all the time.

if he struggles to settle could you ask for melatonin from paediatrician also regarding sleep my ds was like this when he was 2 we were advised by sleep therapist to make a bed up on floor next to our bed and let him sleep on that but always putting him to bed in own bed

we made bed up on floor so he doesn't sleep with me he was attatched to me also anyway i sleep on the side where his bed is and of a night he wanders in and goes straight into little bed and sleeps soundly but to begin with we were quite mean i guess but it needed to be done i put him on little bed and said its here or your bed he would melt down not next to me etc so i would carry him to his bed then go back to my room when he came in again its here or your bed after 2-3 attempts he settled to little bed an dno looking back he could see me he knew i was there

he is 4 and still needs to sleep on little bed of a night although can settle longer in own bed he had to realise he could be near me but not with me i wasn't sleeping it was ruining mine and dp time but it worked he is classed as having night time separation anxiety but will happily lay on little bed and go to sleep as he can see me

could you try this getting him out our bed was a huge deal not so much to keep hi in his bed but so we all had personal space and better sleep

whenever he played up wanting my bed we would carry back to his room saying little bed or big bed he'd cry little bed and we'd go back in tuck him in and he was fine from then

it is heartbreaking but it worked and wasn't as bad as i thought i let him climb in at 5 am but his normally up then anyway

could just be severe anxiety playing on his mind slight night terrors

I want melatonin for him but I still havent been told when we are going to see the peadiatrician and I've been told here GPs cant prescribe it? I chased up the pead by emailing her secretary all I got was "after he sees CAHMS we will contact you with an appointment"

we also had 6 mths of only sleeping in little bed to be able to get him asleep then we worked on his bed first we did what we had to to get sleep but he had to be in little bed only

i could lay on big bed and then sneak out when he was asleep no more silly o clock bedtimes for me

how long does he take to settle? if its less than hr its classed as reasonable anyway ds wasnt settling till 3 in morning up at 7 was long and hard that was

we start trying to settle him around 8 and he is usually asleep by 2am, in my bed with me. If we go straight to my bed at say, 9 or 10, he will take an hour or two.

try putting him on bed next to you if you can make it up as ds was too used to me being with him and was told to just move him to make shift bed but leave him in my room

id lay on the bed and have him on little bed and we could get him to sleep in about an hr and it did go down we would read story then id say good night and turn my back so he could see me but not engage in chat just sshh go to sleep if need i would hang my hand down and stroke his head but that was it then id sneak off

obviously not saying it would work but i think for all of you to get him out of your bed would be a good start i missed him not being next to me to begin with but knew i was doing the right thing and settled better for it

is he over tired at 8 as i found if ds was over tired it was much harder to get him to fall asleep we aimed for 7.15 sleep and cut it back to 6.30 as well this was before the real sleep problems hit so not sure where your ds is at is he tired at all when ds was up till 3 he was not tired at all wide awake when he was tired he settled better with early bed

I am not sure if he is overtired or not. I know when he has no nap by 4pm he is very overtired, then he is taking himself into my bed and just crashing out for an hour or so til DH gets home. But other than that I cant really tell as there isnt too much variation in his behaviour til he gets into meltdown. I would (if I were in control) stop his nap if I absolutely must but put him to bed for 7 but he simply can not stay awake. He has to fall asleep.

It sounds quite aspergers to me - she has told him a nursery rhyme about a spider on him and he has taken it over-literally. What about you now make up a nursery rhyme with its own tune and actions, the last one of which is the spider walking down his back (you do the finger movements) and then swinging out of a nearby open window on its web. Then shut the window firmly and say you can see it scampering off. Worth a try?

to be honest my ds is up at 5 and goes to bed at 6 as he cannot stay up any longer then he will come through to my room at 9-10 to little bed wakes few times in night but we leave drink on his bed and dummy as its the only thing that settles and off he goes again were dreading it as we need to remove the dummy yet its a saviour to us but we have said sept when he starts school dummy fairy will take them to the babies and he seems ok with this so far

we do dinner at 3-4 and then bed from 5-6 with dvd on and then little bed rest of night till 5 i prefer early starts and he sleeps longer with early bed for some reason i like my evenings to myself as i feel ive had a break then

i'll check in tomorrow to see how you are im off to bed to keep me sane for night wakes big hugs your doing great xx

I agree with sickofsocalled experts - firstly that how you have described him in your posts over the months sounds consistent with ASD or some sort of language delay rather than anything more obscure. also that he has developed some kind of wrong association with spiders - whether it's sensory (e.g if they had kids run fingers up necks or something while singing the rhyme) or whether some throw away comment was made that is still bugging him. well worth trying what sickofsuggested, having a symbolic bye bye spider moment(!) to see if that helps.

I have to say that the spider thing sounds like an OCD type fear to me, he is having a fear about an imaginary spider rather than , as is more usual, real spiders. DS2 developed fears about poisonous mushrooms and sharp knives which developed from things he had overheard, the anxiety led him to say very odd things at times. This all blew up just after he had finished Primary2, a very hard year for him (he was 6), he has a verbal DX of mild AS (from the SALT and the ED-Physch). I talked him through it over the school holidays and he has been OK since (still a bit scared of the dark, monster under the bed etc.).

Also DS2 had night terrors when younger, 2/3, and woke up a lot in the night during his first year at school (having been a brilliant sleeper as a baby), he was usually crying when he woke and was hard to comfort.

Again he is now fine in that respect.

He also grunts a bit sometimes and blanks even good friends when he is deep in his own world (or he sees them out of context).

He is tons better than he was and even enjoys school the majority of the time, it will get easier .

Maybe compromise a bit and make up a "camping bed" in your room temporarily so that you can all get some rest, take the long view, you will not be spoiling him.

we will do what sickofsocalled suggested

all the "experts" (irony here) dismiss ASD straight away. Its like they think I'm from another planet considering it.

We tried to settle him just now in my bed with me but he is jumping around. He said he wants to try his bed but it is just a ploy to move around. At any rate we are going through the motions just in case, DH is in there reading to him. I expect he will be back in here soon.

how exactly do you find someone who can look at DS and DX with ASD? And do any of you have links of ASD info you could share with me that sound like my DS? TIA

I just found a good website called familyeducation.com which talks about the difficulties professionals have in diagnosing aspergers, because it can so often look like something else (eg OCD). I don't know your DS, but from what you've written on here I would say he is ticking several of the 6 boxes they cite. The trouble is that you will need to see a paed who specialises in ASD/aspergers. Was the person you saw more of a generalist?

i've had a quick look at this site, think you will find some of the Q & A useful as they seem to focus on the stress and anxiety that go along with Aspergers.

www.aspergerfoundation.org.uk/faq.htm#11

from what you've described your DS's language is very good, so I think sites on Aspergers would be the most relevant for you to look at.

thanks for that link I am exploring it now. The pead we saw is a developmental pead but that is all I know. Then she referred us to CAHMS who is who we saw yesterday. I didnt get his job title. I believe he was some sort of child psychologist.