Need a book about poo! Only on here could I ask such a thing...

[sphil]

Can anyone help? DS2 is still refusing to do a poo in the loo or toilet chair though he's now almost 100% reliable and independent for wee. Someone suggested using the book 'Everyone Poos' - I've looked it up on Amazon and although there's 'look inside' facility, it only shows the first couple of pages. DS2 needs something very very simple and very direct - showing someone actually pooing on the loo if possible. Can anyone recommend anything?
TIA

Sorry, have no suggestions, but am in the same situation. Wee, he will happily tell us now when he needs to go, been trained about 3 weeks. Poo, now that's another matter, tells me his scared of the toiler/potty (does his wee standing up). Tried everything we can think of, but he just goes and hides somewhere.

Hope someone comes up with something soon.

We have the Everybody Poos book. I've dug it out and the last page does show a boy sitting on the loo doing a poo but it is part of a line up (!) and the others are all animals so I am not sure if that would be too distracting.

The majority of the book is about animals and their pooing habits then leads into human habits.

My HV sent me some photocopies of a story about a boy sending his poo to pooland but that was more geared towards having a fear.

I can't say either of the above helped DS1 though it was the promise of an ELC rocket.

I might have a copy of the book I could send to you (but not sure as i had a book cull recently). We found this issue tricky too and DS1 is still only 'safe' if constantly watched and reminded. We did not find the book very good though as it is not particularly direct or explicit !

Erm...we ended up doing lots of drawing.
However - there can be light at the end of the tunnel. DD, after months and months of pooing in nappy or pants finally went on the toilet with no prompting from me about three weeks ago. Just clicked.
She's nearly 5, BTW.

Here you are. Published by the NHS and described on this thread. A choice of 2!

Am thinking of getting the "up to 7 years" one as we've just potty-trained for wees but haven't yet succeeded with poos.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/nappies_potty_training_etc/740676-Poo-of-Pooland

sorry forgot to add that with our kids' language issue these books may not work but let's see.....

Can you make your own book sphil, using photographs.

When my friend had to teach her dd about periods the clinical psych took it right back to basics - so my friend had to show her dd her period (yuck I know- but she is similar to your ds2) and they put together her own social story -again very simple. Maybe you could do something similar with pooing.

Where does he poo? pants or nappy? If nappy could you let him poo on the toilet wearing a nappy then slowly chop the nappy away?

pooland!!!!

it sort of worked with DD,in that she will sometimes go on the toilet now and says her poos are being flushed to pooland,we got a photocopy of the book from an NAS course,it may be on their website.

The link to Pooland doesn't work any more But as Lingle says, I'm not sure it'll be simple enough for DS2. He understands the word 'poo' but wouldn't get 'pooland'. Doing our own book might help, but he isn't great with photos - can't recognise himself. He poos in his pants if it's day time and in a pull up at night. We've got to the stage where we can get him into the loo once he's done it (VERY reluctantly), empty the poo and flush it away. He used to struggle and gag but he's stopped doing that now.

I tried some role play with a teddy bear and a fake poo (!) this afternoon - he was very interested, but when I suggested he might like to imitate teddy, he gave me a filthy look and said 'NO!'

What I need is for the author of 'Bear On a Bike/Goes To Town' etc to write me a book called 'Bear Does a Poo', complete with rhyming text and bright, bold pictures!. You have influence with Barefoot Books, MrsT - can't you suggest it?

Part of the problem is (I think) he always poos standing up (or asleep) - not sure he realises you CAN do it sitting down.

Funnily enough, he hasn't had a single poo accident at school (yet) - I am pretty sure he knows he shouldn't be doing it in his pants, as he always goes off by himself.

Do you have The Mole Who Knew it Was none of His Business?
If not, I think we have 2 copies so I'll send one to you

hi sphil - guess what - SNAP!

dd1 is doing brilliantly for wees - not independently going yet as she can't dress/undress, but asking on time, performing on time etc - but poos are a long way off.

Thankfully she only really goes in the morning, so still has her night nappy on, but we face the same problem - she only ever goes standing up.

She was the same for wees, though, and has (only recently) cracked it. Our vb consultant (who obviously multi-tasks ) reckons her issues with weeing were to do with low muscle tone - she just didn't know which muscles to use to push with, and this will be the same for poo.

Am I right in thinking (sorry for tmi) that your ds's poos are soft/mushy? vb consultant reckoned again that was somethign to do with it - dd1 has never had to "try" to poo - never been constipated or anyhting - she just goes with the flow so to speak, and so does not know "how to poo" when she needs to. It was the same for her weeing - she would do everything perfectly - ask, sit nicely, clearly need to go, but not know how to go (she also only ever used to wee standing up - not so convenient for girls ) but she has recently sorted that out. dd1 was the same re: school and accidents (and also when we were out shopping) which was why we thought her problem was about knowing how to let go - she has never had an accident outside of the house, however long we are out for.

So, after a lot of waffle, my conclusion is that it too will come in time. vb consultant did say he would try to look up someone who might be able to help with the muscle tone bit (the mind boggles really, but there must be someone who would know how to train the right muscles for "pushing") - if he does get back to me, I'll let you know (but might have to chase as the urgency has gone for us for now)

wrt books - I saw the everyone poos book at ddd1's school the other week - it is pleasantly diverting for a child if they are interested, and I think might work for a child scared of pooing altogether, but not sure it would work for loo refusal particularly - it has pges and pages of lots of animals pooing, and then at the end shows a (drawn) child sitting on a potty/loo but iirc the emphasis is more on the pooing (and that everyone has to) than where it goes (could be wrong though, as only had a brief look)

oh that is a problem with doing your own book sphil.

I wonder if some sort of homemade knitted/felt pooing doll would work. Rather like those NCT knitted uteruses that give birth.

Have you tried modelling for him - I know it sounds gross, but whilst you're sitting down, mummy/daddy/ds1 is sitting down, we are pooing, oh look there's our poo that came out. The clinical psych was pretty adamant that for periods the real think needed to be seen as well as all the modelling and photos and social stories etc.

silverfrog- I suppose the muscles need to be trained to contact when not pooing but then relax rather than push because the sphincter is usually contracted but relaxes when pooing (really trivial factoid of the day )

There's an acupuncture point at the base of the thumb- sort of in the v shape of the hand called 'the great eliminator'. It's meant to be good for constipation (!) and pooing when you can't and I've also been told rubbing the back of the calves can help.

Will he sit on the toilet? What happens if he's sat on the toilet then needs to poo, does he hold on then stand up?

I have asked some knitters whether a knitted pooing doll is possible....

oh I know, MrsT - it's just generally thought of as "pushing"

after an ex long term boyfriend who had Crohn's, a stepson with chronic constipation and a dh with bowel disease, I know more than I ever wanted to know about the mechanincs of pooing

we haven't yet tackled pooing properly with dd1 (as due to her current timings it isn't an issue) but when she was having issues weeing you could see her sitting there and trying out various sets of muscles, trying to go. was interesting and quite a revelation - yet another thing that just comes by instinct for most of us, that dd1 had to learn to do.

a knitted pooing doll really should be possible - it is just a case of finding someone wiling and able.

my mum would have been able to do one (and this is probably the most bizarre reason for missing her that I have had so far ) - a variation on a Jean Greenhowe doll shouldn't be too hard. I did have a contact for a knitter who was willing to try out new things (have used her for various knitted foods etc for the dds) - will have a dig around and see if I can find her again.

there's always this hideous thing

silver- you sound like you have a lot of experience with bowels

more than I ever wanted, MrsT - and more to come too, by the look of it!

I saw that doll in Costco recently, and just couldn't bring myself to buy it - it was just too hideous, but it did at least do what I wanted it to do...

I had one in the 70's. But I fed it real milk and so it smelt disgusting. Another time I didn't clean it's mouth properly after eating and it stuck to my wall so had blue painted lips forever more.

Just seen one on Google called "Liam goes Poo on the toilet". the illustrations look very simple. As a crafty minded person I wouldn't think it would be that hard to construct an "orifice" in an existing soft toy, eg. undo a short section of seam in the appropriate area, wiggle a hole in the stuffing, insert a small childs sock into the hole and oversew around the opening, then put your ffake poo into the sock/rectum (can't believe i'm typing this!). If it was a reasonably snug fit the fake poo might stay in until you squeezed the toys tummy. DS3 has various items of toy plastic food that i often mistake for nuggets of poo on the floor!

Sorry, but I am rofl at the turn this thread has taken . Knitted pooing dolls - only on MN SN!!
Strangely enough, yesterday I designed my own version - a teddy bear which wears a tight jumper, up the back of which I have stuffed a fake poo. When I sit him on the potty chair I can push the poo out. But making an orifice is a much better idea!

He never sits on the loo when he needs to do a poo MrsT - he runs off somewhere else. I did follow him round tonight (much to his disapproval) and got him to sit on the loo - but he jumps up after a few seconds and I can't force him to sit there. I might try the portable DVD - but I do think it's fear issue. Will look at the Liam book.

Thanks so much for all these suggestions - it's reassuring to know others are in the same position. (And as usual Silverfrog - spooky!)

Ah yes running off to do a poo. I have to say we did do the force him to sit there approach (but he wasn't distressed by sitting there- just flitty so it was more sit him down and then throw everything we could at him so he didn't have time to think about moving).

they did have similar problems in Horse Boy but I'm guessing a trip to mongolia to see a reindeer shaman is out

I've got a dvd about a bear that poos.. It was recommended on here. Am at work at the moment but will dig it out when I get home and post the name of it.

Thanks Kettle - DVD might work better than a book.

MrsT . Could take the campervan I suppose...