What do you do when they're melting down?

[Shells]

I would really appreciate some experience and advice here as I'm at a loss.

DS2 is just 5. He has delayed and disordered speech and autistic tendencies, although no diagnosis of autism. He is generally quite a laid back kid and I haven't had a huge amount of non-compliant behaviour from him, and when I have its been fairly easy to distract him or calm him down.

Lately however its been getting worse and he gets himself into a complete pickle (over something very small usually) and it seems so hard to get him out of it and I wonder what the best thing to do is.

So for example we went to visit friends at Easter. Arrived at their house and he'd taken his underpants and jeans off in the car as he was hot. I told him he needed to put them back on. He totally kicked off. So I sat in the car with him and calmly repeated myself about 1000 times. The others went in. Now he knows that the friends have lots of toys he likes. He knew there was going to be chocolate. But there was no way he was going to give in and put the jeans on. So I kept persevering and he got more and more distressed. Then I got cross with him and told him he had to stay in the car on his own (I sat outside) which usually he hates. But he just sat in the car and sobbed. We ended up by compromising on just wearing underpants. But that took a whole hour of back and forth between the two of us.

And then an hour later he'll do it again over having to go to bed, or get in bath or whatever.

Now I am trying to prepare for these situations a bit better with visual charts etc. But what I'm really interested in is how you diffuse those hysterical moments. All the tactics I'd use with my NT son don't seem to work and I'm worried I'm just making DS2 worse and more upset.

I wonder if it's sensory issues 'kicking in'? If it is, then to him it would feel like this:

"Oh no, change of routine - we're going somewhere! I've just had a whole change of routine over Easter because people visit and do things in a different order and it's so scary, but I know I've got to behave so I'll cope somehow. But today, we're going to see friends and I'm already SO tired from all the routine-changes. And now my clothes hurt and it's hotter than the very desert in this car.

The noise from the engine, the smell of the petrol, someone talking to me - I can feel me getting more and more and more scared .

These jeans SO hurt me. I've got to get them off...I've got to find a way to cope. When we get there, there's going to be people doing the scary eye contact, and people asking me questions and jostling me and it all hurts, and I can't handle it. I want someone to make it all stop. Oh no, mum's talking to me to make me put the hurty hot jeans and pants on again. Can't do it, don't make me do it, it hurts, it's so hot, I don't want to go in the house when I'm so tired and scared.

Oh no, mum's shouting at me, it sounds like an explosion because my hearing is so sensitive when I'm like this. I want to hide, I need to hide. No way am I coming out of the car to face that hell..."

Same principle with scratchy pyjamas or any other change of clothing. For us it can be like taking off several sheets of sandpaper and putting on more sandpaper. Baths? I won't get in one. No way. Even as a adult. Echoey, cold, splashy, smelly-lotioned, huge contrast between temperature of water and the bath...it's a sensory nightmare. Others with an ASD may not agree, but for me it's a big thing. I'll do showers, but not baths.

That's how the world can look from our perspective.

Visual charts can help, because we need to plan how much energy we need to use, when. We can save a bit to cope with the visit to Aunt Esmerelda that way. A quiet corner for us to be in can help. Very low sensory stimuli can help - think "what perfumes are in here?" "are there flickering lights or screens?" "are there lots of children chattering and screaming?" etc.

In a meltdown, extreme quiet and something to wrap himself in to calm down. It might help? And a very large cuppa for you.

My ds used to do this at a similar age, and really leaving him to work through it was the only way, because once he had started down that path I don't think he could stop himself until his spring had as it were unwound. Then he needed lots of cuddles and love to recover. School used a sensory room quite effectively (they had a unit for children with behavioural disorders, although ds was in the mainstream). At home his comfort blanket was quite effective at calming him, and we also took it on journeys and when staying away. He didn't have sensory issues with his clothes though, just real intensity issues about getting upset (most but not all of which have resolved as he has got older - we have a recent outbreak at his new school, which is problematic as teachers (and friends) are rather less forgiving of this sort of behaviour at coming up 10 than in the early years).

Amber - thats really useful. I never used to think he had sensory issues but they are becoming more and more apparent. The clothes is a particular one. And maybe the bath. Although other times he'll hop in happily - especially if I'm in there too!

I am going to try and introduce a comfort blanket.

And Nooka - sounds similar to my DS- he's hysterical and cross and then very upset and needs cuddles.

But of course sometimes we just HAVE to get in the car because its time for school or whatever and so I feel like I have to insist and then don't know what my compromise point should be if you know what I mean.

I'm really happy for him not to have a bath/wear scratchy clothes etc. but other things are non negotiable (going to bed/getting in and out of car etc.).

Shells, have you ever seen the Spoon Theory thing by Christine Miserandino? It's so good at explaining why we can manage something one day, but can't the next day. It wasn't written for ASDs but goodness me, there's a lot in it that is SO true. I did an ASD version for my friends, but can't put in anywhere public as the original version by Christine is copyright and she won't allow variations.

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

I hadn't seen that Amber. Very interesting. Do you think there's an element for children with ASD to just be so fixated on the one thing (for example - says he won't get in the car) that even if its not important - it becomes important? And then its impossible for him to back down or see a way out because thats what he's decided.

I'm not trying to trivialise his feelings by saying something is unimportant, but as an observer, sometimes thats what it looks like as no amount of talking down or trying to distract or dissuade or even order will change his mind.

And he seems to need a compromise as a way out of the situation he's got himself stuck in - so putting on the pants instead of the jeans for example.

i find choices work with my ds also i dont dress him in jeans i find he gets too hot i only put loose clothes on him jogging bottoms or next cotton trousers work great jeans he tugs he cries and is unable to tel;l me what the problem is since not putting them on he doesn't do it so can only presume they were becoming uncomfortable

do you use now and next chart or do you pre warn what you will be doing etc

with ds i will pre warn day before tomorrow we will be doing this and i'll repeat several times throughout the day

in the morning i'll tell him again were going here today then i'll say where are we going today and he'll tell me so i know his well aware and will be calm

i wont how my ds im cross even if i am as it distresses him more his not meanin g to be naughty he jsut cant get through to me what the problem is

so i do have to use choices we'll go in and we can ties your jumper round your waste and wear your pants or we can put your jeans back on for eg he would opt for jumper and pants rather than jeans

if my voice is calm he can listen and respond better if im shouting its means nothing he just knows im angry he cant hear what im saying and im making it worse

i dont look at him as doing what is thought of as nt i do what i think will make him more comfortable as i dont understand but know in my mind theres something not right i jsut need to find what it is

he doesnt understand to tell me he just knows himself somethings not right and will get upset so i give choices calm voice and it does 99% of the time work so i use this all the time

my ds hated bath really hated baths but he has had 6 baths i 8 days i found it was because he didn't like water on his head so i said i wont wash his hair he was asking for bath every night and wetting down his own hair

also didnt like nails cut

bedtime we have dvd in bed not especially practical but it works he gets to choose his fave dvd and he gets into bed without a worry no tv gave his mind too much time to be whizzing everything around 100 miles a hour and this was terrible for him dvd gives his brain something else to think about and there fore his much calmer

again bath needed to be near on cool as well as any warmer it felt far too hot for him now i know all this and have learnt its so much easier

you just have to remember to try and stay calm they have no idea there n=being naughty there not there struggling so get upset to be punished for this calmness ask what is bothering you my ds can sometimes try and explain his 4 so not too well but i can usually finish what his saying and grasp the problem

maybe it would be worth carrying shorts in a bag when weather is hot as i do find my ds sweats alot and things become painful rubbing on his skin he doesnt even like me rubbing lotion as it hurts

sending you big hugs it is hard but when you can find some medium ground it becomes so much easier

even disregarding the SN Shells I find the "supernanny" approach of calmly repeating and insisting doesn't work for DS2 (3.7, receptive language delay). I don't know why, but a "sideways on" approach (like pretending he is doing what I want and praising him for it) gets better results.

I used to say "hold me hand" at the road and he'd run across the road. But if I held his hand and said "good boy" then he saw the benefit and compliance came quicker.

I think maybe the "supernanny approach" only works if you are 100% consistent which is very hard to achieve as a parent especially when other children are involved.

Thank you bubblagirl. That is good insight. And you're right. Getting cross and especially shouting seems to have very little effect - and I do try hard not to. Because - as you say - its not 'defiance' usually, but a mindset that he is just in and I feel like I need to understand it more so I can help him get out of it.

Lingle - like the presumption that he's doing it right. Might try that.

Shells

Meltdowns are hard.

DS2 (8, asd) will try to run and hide when he's in the middle of one.

We have a 'first' and 'then' which can work sometimes.

preparation - "we're going to ..., there will be ...".

Comfy trousers (we call them comfys) Adams do a range of fleece jogging bottoms which are quite nice - and they are really comfy.

It sounds a bit mad but sometimes if I pretend he is a puppy he will come out of it.

and sometimes I am just a stressed out, sweaty wreck by the time it passes because nothing I am trying is working!

Oh, and we don't go anywhere without his snuggy blanket (not the shops but if visiting, it can stay in the car and got if needed).

I won't be back on the board til later, but thanks for everyone's input. Its very reassuring.

Haven't had a chance to read that email TCLanger -must do that.

Helen - puppy! Whatever it takes...

hello shells, that sounds totally exhausting.... I hope you can find something that works, it is trial and error - I know one thing I have always done is to persevere, even if my ds has a meltdown, I will keep trying to get him to do things he doesn't like/want to do - I pick my battles sometimes but I want to help him.

my ds sounds similar to your ds, he will be 5 in May, has language delay/disorder, no dx, asd traits - I try not to talk to my ds when he is in a meltdown, or if I do talk to him, I don't repeat myself... I usually have a distraction toy/treat with me for times I want to move on fairly quickly.

Bath time is something he never really wants to do, he will go in and play happily now, but always says he doesn't want to, resists slightly, but is so much better than he used to be - I tell him I am going to pour a bath.... do it, then I bring him in, use very little language just physical prompts - sometimes arguing is the thing that escalates my ds's resistance to doing something - makes him more likely to meltdown.

This morning neither of my children wanted to get up, this usually makes mornings very stressful for me, but instead of arguing with ds, I tried humour (it doesn't always work but having dd there makes a difference) so ds just wanted to curl up and go to sleep on the sofa.
I managed to get him to the table, sat him up and pretended I was going to eat his food (I was being silly, tickling him, making funny voices, saying ooh that looks delicious I am going to eat that berry, please give it to me...) I don't always use the same tactics, sometimes I just ignore ds, let him be, talk to someone else and just wait and see what happens next, let him be upset - I do try and be positive with him. Use positive language, keep my voice calm and steady, if something needs to be done we just get on and do it - I focus on being in control and not getting upset by his behaviour - on good days!

I am no saint and I will lose my temper with him sometimes , but I don't care what anyone else thinks, if he is being difficult. I ignore everyone else and just try and be with ds, wait for him to come round but also do what is necessary with physical guidance.. hoping that if I start something he will finish it, the idea I learned from doing pecs was the backward step - won't work in meltdowns but it is good for getting ds to try new things.

i also find i dont give do you ant to pick that up for me choices

can you put your shoes on etc

if he says no then i cant get cross as my ds is so literal ive given him a choice his made it he said no to then force him to do it would be wrong

i have to say put your shoes on please do this please put rubbish in bin please more like demanding than asking but it works every time

Interesting thread - thought I'd ask for advice. DS (3, waiting for ASD assessment) so far doesn't seem to have major sensory issues. The major causes for tantrums/meltdowns are old toys giving up the ghost and, above all, not wanting to go back home when we've been out. I've been trying to understand if there are sensory issues/routines involved there, but it's not to do with a preferred route back home, because he changes it all the time. Would you conclude that it's just a toddler thing?

Thanks for all the advice on this from me too. This is so similar to my DS1 who is 4 and had an enormous meltdown this morning, mainly due to overtiredness I'd say. For the last few months his behaviour has been difficult, after a period of relative compliance and I have felt I'm going round the bend.
He doesn't have a diagnosis apart from 'communciation difficulties' as yet (even after 18 months of referrals - still ongoing.).
Distraction used to work a treat when he was smaller, but now not working so well. Possibly because I'm sidetracked by DS2 or not as inventive as previously.
Only another few days of Easter Hols to go - I'll try and persevere with the non-shouting approach!

sc13
i find with my ds some things are very much a an age behavioural thing if he doeskin want to go home i always find something interesting we can do together when we get home

if its toys i get rid when his asleep he never even realises if he does ask i say i cant find it lets do this together and distract him he soon forgets or a new toy arrives from charity shop and the other is soon forgotten lol

My 6 year old has asd, and has been having meltdowns for years. I do the same as bubblagirl, and don't put him in jeans anymore. I usually allow him to wear shorts even if it is cold. I find that if I allow him this, then he has alot more "spoons" to cope with the rest of the day. He also hates baths, and only has showers, and I allow him to wash his own hair. He sweats alot and loves having showers.
He uses his ipod to get some quiet time so that he can cut himself off from the worls when he needs to, and he always wears a tight fitting hat, which somehow helps when there are people around. Lately he has started to want to wear sunglasses too, I think it is to do with being able to avoid eye-contact.
He looks like a moody teenager!
It is exhausting, and I find that is better not to put too much pressure on my ds since that just makes him worse.
My 4 year old has 'classic' autism, and has been mostly passive until around 6 months ago. He can not tell me what is wrong, but I do try to keep his surroundings free of smells, flickering lights, and he does not cope with people at all, unless he is in a buggy.
Super nanny stuff never works on my boys.
Visual timetables are vital, and so are those sand timers.

I have a 10 year old with HFA who has spectacular meltdowns, and has been doing so since about 4. I strongly suspect he also has PDA (demand avoidance) but has not been DX's with this yet!

With DS's meltdowns I can usually spot them 'brewing'. Occassionally I get taken by suprise, but usually they are coming for hours or even days! It will then be something silly or insignificant that will eventually spark the meltdown. I guess this is the point he finally runs out of spoons! (Amber would love to read your ASD version, but appreciate you can't post it!).

Once he's gone into meltdown there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do or say to bring him out of it. Its just a case of keeping him and everyone and everything around him as safe as possible. There is no point in trying to reason with him or even talk to him. Usually he's in full screaming, biting, kicking mode for about 20-30 mins, after which he gradually calms down, and will then need a good couple of hours quiet time to recover.

His meltdowns are defintely a stress/anxiety response, and when he's calm, we can go for weeks without a meltdown. If he's anxious for any reason we can have 3 or 4 a day!

I agree with what other people have said about clothing, I always keep DS's as comfy as possible, and scratchy or uncomfortable clothing is bound make him stressed. DS hates clothes, and his favorite state is naked (completely!) wrapped in his (chewed and smelly) duvet cover!! He often doesn't get dressed if we're staying at home, or will just put on boxers if we have visitors (don't get many people coming round - not sure why ). He always wears trakkies, there is no way I could get him in jeans or trousers.

The supernanny stuff doesn't work with him either, and never has. He doesn't respond to rewards or sanctions. Its very impossible to motivate him like this. DS2 (NT) however spends half his life sat on the naughty step!!

Hmmm. This is all interesting food for thought.

So, there seems to be a consensus that on the whole the 'rewards/sanctions' approach doesn't work. Or doesn't always work.
Maybe you've had some success with versions of this Tclanger? I think you've done charts anyway.

And obviously trying very hard to avoid stressful situations, doing lots of warning/planning of change.

Have comfort support tools ready (blankets/treats etc.).

This is all helpful to me just to try and get inside DS2s head a bit more.

But there is a difference needed, isn't there, between meltdowns for stress/tired etc. and meltdowns for non-compliance or not following instructions - like holding hands crossing the road etc.

So I feel a bit better equipped to cope with the first, but still not the second.
And because often MY stress at these points is because I am dealing with other children/trying to get to places on time or whatever, which makes lengthy processes hard. Sigh.

Thanks for everyone's support. I appreciate it.

my ds would never hold hands at road he'd pull away want to run across the road etc no danger awareness has taken me a couple of weeks but now he can walk beside me without holding my hand and sometimes he'll hold hand at road other times he says hold my arm it looks like im dragging him across the road but i have hold of him and his happy with this i can then let go once across the road

im always so nervous as he has no awareness of the dangers but he has learnt how to behave i still have to look out for the signs his going to melt down and try to distract him from it

i got him to hold my hand by saying hold my hand ok before we left the house he said ok we got so far he started pulling away so i said if you hold my hand we can walk really fast so i then walk fast and play and he loves this we get to a road i explain we need to stop then we walk really fast across the road

then he wanted to run around some pots my heart was pounding so i said ok but you have to hold my hand when you get to that one it was near the road so i made sure i was there first he held my hand so lots of praise good listening and very good walking we did this every day and now we can manage 40 min walks together and he has learnt how to behave but i had to allow him to do this i was so scared all the time and so nervous i wouldn't let him leave my side

he will still have days he will try to get his way but i distract him i take him to look at a poster on on a wall i'll pick out numbers or letters and then say hold my hand lets see if we can find more

it took us at least a month for me to feel confidant and for him to learn the routine but i was consistent he will never at this age really understand the dangers he has no danger awareness but he has learnt to stop by holding my hand and me repeating the same thing every day i started on quiet roads just us so if he did run he was in no danger then i moved on to the road towards pre school which is busy main road then i walked further each time

he also new if he didnt do what i said he wouldnt get his treat for being a good boy we have a cars sticker book so when his good we go in and i buy him some stickers for his book

but i always told him what i expected from him before i left the house and id say what do you do at a road and he'd say hold hand so when i got to road id say ok hold hand

not saying it will work for your ds but it was hard work to get where we are with ds today but was worth it as im able to give him bit more independence

Just wanted to say, I'm always impressed by BBgirl's 'techniques' - they show so much patience and careful observation!! My tip for road-crossing (which I think is not necessarily ASD-related) has been to get DS into traffic lights. He has now completely internalized the red/stop, green/go thing. Amazingly, when the traffic light outside our house was broken, I would have expected some major meltdown but his only reaction was to say 'traffic light broken' .

sc13 thank you so much i just guess i want to understand my ds fully and help him learn as his young enough for me to do so much before school but its all taken so much longer than i thought but im at a place i didnt ever think i would be yet still so far away from where he should be

i find by doing what im doing my days are more pleasurable as he stays calm now his on melatonin anyway as sleep deprived i couldn't do anything with him no matter how much patience i had i was completely lost then

my bubblaboy is my best buddy and i will do whatever it takes to help him as do so many others for there children i just feel trying to understand the triggers and the causes and what he needs to learn i can work with him easier said than done though its not been easy