Help my ds wants to take a knife into school so he can.........

[Yurtgirl]

stab the dinner ladies

This has been something he has mentioned most days during half term. Back at school on Tuesday and I am beginning to panic about how to deal with this.

Oh dear! What has the poor dinner lady done to him? Worth peaking to the school about! Does he go to Sn or MS school?

Hi 5inthebed - Your bed must be crowded!

I started the thread and then disappeared without explanation

The dinner ladies at his school are insistent that all children must wear their coats at lunch time play. If children refuse (because they are warm from running about) they get told off and sent in to get their coats

During morning and afternoon play the teachers arent bothered (unless its really cold!) whether the kids wear their coats as long as they are happy!

Ds is 7 at ms school. He has Aspergers and absolutely does not want to wear his coat if he doesnt feel cold. (He will argue with me at home about putting a jumper on, whilst he shivers)

He has an argument with the dinner ladies about this every day (in person or also inside his head?) Then he comes home and I have the daily 30 minute rant about how awful he thinks they are

I have spoken to the school months ago (I put a social story type note in his pocket that I hoped he could keep and show to them each day, but they took it away) I spoke to the senco but nothing has changed

He has now decided the only way to solve this is to take a knife in to school and ........ well

I have explained the consequences of this (being taken away from me, prison etc) he still thinks this is the best solution

Yes my bed is slightly crowded. There is me, dh and my 3 ds aged 5, 3 and 12 weeks. Luckily I have a huge Ikea bed!

Your poor DS . The SENCO should have done something about it, especially as your ds has SN and doesn't fully understand the need of a coat.

I would definately speak to the school on Monday (check your DS pockets/bag before he goes as well). I'm sure they could make an exception for him.

Thats the point really they obviously havent taken on board how distressed he is by this.

I admit it was ages since I spoke to senco about it but nothing changed back then. He has wrestled with the issue in his head, ranted about it to me and tried to argue about it with the dinner ladies and now he feels this is his only option

TBH I am quite worried about the psychological affect of things like this - emotionally, if that makes sense

He doesnt like school in general, we are seriously considering Home Educating but there are so many factors to consider (I dont like decisions either!)

Must be really hard for you all! I wish I could help you more, but we are at the beginning of the whole SN/MS schooling. Ds2 is only 3.6 so have little experience.

Hopefully some of the other parents on here can help you out.

What's stopping you Home Edding? If you don't mind me asking?

Hi Kaytee - No of course I dont mind! I am a regular lurker and contributer to the HE threads but have never spoken to you directly - hello!

Various reasons, some of which are surmountable, some more difficult to conquer

I am going to learn to drive, asap which will solve a lot of problems re HE
Mine are in welsh education, as I dont speak welsh fluently it will be difficult to continue learning the language at home - considering finding a private tutor/ mentor to visit at home to conquer this problem. (DS is currently fluent)
I am a single parent so it is difficult to organise time away from ds and dd
The whole single parent/working/money issue.
My mum and most people I know will think I am crazy. My mum in particular puts enormous faith in the whole school system and will rant at me for weeks even for mentioning the idea

I could go on..............!

Still keen though, so is ds

Hello to you too Yurtgirl,
I am biased regarding HomeEd (as you can see from previous posts) but I can see how it would be tricky for you.

I personally know H.E parents who have similar difficulties and quite a few with SN dc. It can be hard to HE in many ways, whatever your circumstances, but what out-weighs all the obstacles is the general relief, freedom and happiness it can bring.

Could you buy/borrow from Library Welsh language cds? I know that Muzzle are good for languages but not sure if Welsh is covered.

Family can be pita but I'm sure, if you were resolute, you could get over that one

It took me 4 years to take the plunge. Each day I dragged ds1 and ds2 there till I could ignore my instincts no more!

I wish you all the best though and, fwiw, I never liked dinner ladies much anyway so I can understand your ds pov

Forgot to address the work ishoo! I'm considering child-minding. Just a thought?

I have considered childminding before. I was put off by all the hoops the government insist you jump through - as bad as it is for teachers in school afaik

I know all the obstacles I am putting up are possible to overcome, but for now I am sticking with school. I am ashamed to say that atm I am researching the idea but dragging my heels rather!

DS meanwhile is putting up with school. At some point he is going to say noooooooooooooo and refuse completely - which secretly I am hoping he will do! - As my mum can then argue with him not me!

Meanwhile we have got to sort out the dinner ladies, without using knives!!!!

Re welsh - I have a mountain of books and have achieved a reasonable level in it myself, but that doesnt compare with what ds and dd currently get at school - DS is totally fluent, dd nowhere near.

A major reason for us to move to Wales was for us all to learn Welsh so to take them out and therefore deny them that would be really sad.

Dd is reasonably happy at school but as I have ishoooos with school anyway (regardless of dinner ladies) if HE is good enough for ds its perfect for dd too imo.

I think this is a sensory issue and a genuine disability need.

As someone with an ASD, this is how I would experience playtimes:

Door handle to the playground, freezing cold - a shock that feels like pain. Jostling, noise - more pain. People shouting, so many voices, I can't make out what any of them are saying as it's all one wall of sound. They want me to join in, but I don't know who they are - I can't process the faces quickly enough. What are they saying? What do they want me to do? My balance isn't great, I can't join in the games as swiftly as they can. I am struggling to cope, it's overwhelming, I need to get away but I so want to have a friend so I try with all my might to cope with the sensory hell.

An adult comes over to me, she wants me to wear my coat. If I wear my coat, I will not be able to move properly/it's scratchy/it feels wrong/it's too hot (whatever the issue is for this young man). If that happens, I know that I won't cope at all as the pain of all the overload will be too much and I will have a meltdown or shutdown and it HURTS ME. Why do they want to hurt me every single day? Why can't they make it fair for me? "

His assumption is that the dinner ladies are trying to hurt him every day, and just won't stop.

His solution is clearly wrong, but it's a desperate cry for help. Please do tell the school what I've written here, if you think it would help at all. He's not being unreasonable, these are real sensory issues.

They may have to let him have a different routine for breaktimes, or give way on the subject of a coat. Is there a compromise of an extra layer underneath, a fleece, something that would work as well, for example?

Yurtgirl, how did your DS get on at school? Did you speak to the school, and did you get any result?

It does sound like you need to sort this out for your son. Hope you are making headway.
My son, now able to express his discomforts, says (he doesn't like wearing a coat because he) can't move his arms (the sleeve bind) it is itchy/ sweaty ( he gets too hot, he doesnt like the tight sensation of cuffs) and makes his arms hurt (it is heavy). He will usually put up with a light weight baggy armed fleece - as long as it is not done up, and his sn school allow this - except in the snow or wet! (No coat = stay in) Would a fleece gilet be comfortable and allowed?

Good luck

Yurtgirl I ahd to respond as this is also something my ds1 often says he is going to do; we have in the past recovered knives from his room but not recently (thank goodness).

Had to have a little LOL at the welsha s well- weonly moved here four years ago and although I have intended learning Welsh (been at UNni) I haven't manged to fit it in yet... (now Wlesh speaking area,I presuume you are in one?). Rehersing Eisteddfodd songs this week has been a challenge at best for me LOL!

I personally wouldn't send himin again untily ou ahev spoken to the SENCO: now when we did that over something I think ds1 ws only out 2 days until it was resolved. So don't panic. But it forces them into something.

It is a SENCO issue: something easily resolved by the schooland adequate training ofdinner supervisors. The note in his pocket is an excellent idea but you need to make it a wholeschoolpackage: ds1's'instructions' list of what to do in overload is laminated,kept with hmi and all staff know he has it.

Empathy over the homeschooling quandary also; DS1 would be better home schooled but his aggression means I just cannot take it on at th moment.

Thanks for your responses all of you

You are so right, it is a sensory issue. He feels that his coat constricts the movement of his arms and it makes him hot and sweaty, then itchy

Our solution has been to send him to school without a coat altogether (mild weather here atm) I have carried with me his raincoat in case of a downpour.

The result: dinner ladies at once noticed the absence of his coat, took him over to the headmistress to point it out (clearly demonstrating that I am a neglectful mother!!!!!!!!! Arghhhhhhh ) From what ds says it seems she told Joshua to go amd play and waved the DLs away. Hurrah a solution of sorts

THe laminated card to carry in his pocket is a good idea - I will suggest that idea

Peachy Our town is welsh speaking anmonst those that know each other but not in general - which I find so frustrating as I have devoted so much time to learning and have still not made any welsh speaking friends! We are in the Swansea area, where are you?

Amber - If its okay with you I am going to cut and paste some of your marvellous insight into what it is like to have Aspergers (getting rid of names/mumsnet details) and take it into school

They know a lot more about aspergers than his last school but nevertheless they are not addressing his needs - they say oh yes we will do such and such but then dont!!!

Thanks all!

I have just picked up ds from school and I am sooooooooooo cross about what happened today................

Shameless attention seeking bump!

Yurtgirl what happened??????

Wedgiesmum - well since you have been so kind as to ask!

He has 30 minutes each week one 2 one with a teacher who works with individual or groups of children. 30 minutes is obviously next to useless but hey its better than 0. She normally does extension work with him as he is bored in the classroom.

Anyway today she was on playground duty for the playtime before his allotted 30 minutes (which he looks forward to enormously) he took his sweatshirt off as he felt hot, she asked him to put it on. He refused as it was sunny and warm here today - he doesnt like a "sweaty back"

He went into her room after play for his 30 minutes where she continued to ask him to put his sweatshirt on - he refused. They argued about it.

Then she said she would take him to the head so talk about it - he refused. She took his hand to go with him. He "glued my feet to the floor so I couldnt move" She said I will talk to Mrs T about this later

I asked him so as a fraction how much of the 30 minutes did you spend talking about this (He is very keen on fractions and percentages atm!) He said 1

This is of course entirely his version of events but he insists he is telling me the truth, I couldnt help it I was crying when he told me the bit about pretending to glue his feet to the floor

I am feeling overlooked!!

Sorry been elsewhere but now back. Poor poor DS why on earth are they arguing with him about these things? He obviously has sensory issues so why force him do do these things. You are so right to be cross and I think a multi agency meeting is called for ie the School, you, any outside professionals involved (like Ed Psych, autism outreach, your paed etc)and someone like parent partnership on your side. This meeting should then come up with proposals to put in place to support him properly. Don't they realise they are pushing him into melt down mode and therefore DISCRIMINATING against him and could therefore be prosecuted under the DDA? They are being very unreasonable and not making reasonable adaptations for his needs!

I'm not surprised you felt upset as you are trusting them to care for him appropriately and they are so obviously not.

BIG HUG - YOU ARE NOT BEING IGNORED!

Sorry yurtgirl, I have been out, but have just read what you have put.

Why are adults arguing with a child? That is madness!!! You need to take it further, as it sounds like they are not meeting his needs.

I don't have much knowledge on the whole school front, as just starting to get into it myself, but hoping that one of the other parents with older ASD/AS kids can help.

I have just come back from a meeting at the school about this...... lets just say I am NOT happy by their response

Ds version of events was highly exaggerated but I am not impressed by their dismissive response - proper update later when ds isnt screaming at me!!

I have just come back from a meeting at the school about this...... lets just say I am NOT happy by their response

Ds version of events was highly exaggerated but I am not impressed by their dismissive response - proper update later when ds isnt screaming at me!!