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SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Could poeple tell me about FBA (functinal behaviour analysis) and ABA please/

29 replies

Clarissimo · 19/01/2009 10:49

After another weekend of aggression and meltdwons we have realised we need to shift ds1's therapies and approachess as he isn't functioning.

Hiring a tutpor etc is out due to funds but how much can I learn and or do myself? I am at home atm. Have ordered a book on FBA- any recommendations?

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nikos · 19/01/2009 12:59

Just want to bump this as I am interested as well. No way we can fund it so wondering how much we could do ourselves. My ds shows frustration through aggression as well.

electra · 19/01/2009 13:41

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Clarissimo · 19/01/2009 13:48

Unfortunately conferences are not an option right now- maybe one day but have a small breastfed baby and no childcare (bar DH whose breasts are frankly useless )

Will look at that chap n the internet though, thanks.

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electra · 19/01/2009 13:56

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Davros · 19/01/2009 14:21

I strongly recommend the book Behavioral Intervention for Young Children with Autism by Catherine Maurice, Gina Green, and Stephen C. Luce, not cheap though at £59.08 but you might get one second hand from ABA-UK EGroup or on Ebay. Aso strongly recommend you JOIN Peach (don't just look at their website, you get more info if you join). There are also some DIY ABA books, I know that JimJams used some and they would be on here somewhere in the archive (if you can face using it!) or:
?The How to Manage Behavior Series?, range of small books with clear, well written instructions on how to implement various aspects of ABA, e.g. ?How to Select Reinforcers?, ?How to Use Planned Ignoring? etc etc, available from Amazon at various prices. AND, last recommendation, look at the Different Roads to Learning website, if only to get some ideas about what is available. Lastly (honest) have you looked at PECs (if needed)? Good luck!

Clarissimo · 19/01/2009 14:24

Thanks Davros (Its Peachy btw).

PEC's very good with ds3 but ds1 doesn't seem t nee them except I'm going to press for a re-test by SALT as i think his expressive labguage might be where they say (10 -15 years ahead of age) but I don't thiknk his receptive language is anywhere near his chronological age and that's where half the issues lie. If that makes sense?

get the DLA tomorrow so will go and look at some of those links, thanks.

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moondog · 19/01/2009 16:43

All good recommendations.
For an introduction that is fun and not scary, I also recommend Don't shoot the dog which is the arcetypal slim volume.

Crar, remember a lot of SALTs don't understand ABA so can be nagative about it.

donkeyderby · 19/01/2009 17:04

Moondog, I am fascinated by the fact that Don't Shoot The Dog is written by a behavioural and animal expert. My DH and I swear that we have had more help with DS's behavioural issues from watching episodes of 'It's Me or the Dog' than anywhere else....!! I am totally serious.

Clarissimo · 19/01/2009 18:33

Thank you for that Moondog, will look.

Interesting point about dogs LOL

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moondog · 19/01/2009 18:41

Donkey, yes!!! It's often said that if you want help with a child who is autisitc, call in a dolphin trainer.
There are so many parallels which aren't made explicit because critics then point the finger and say ABA treats people like animals.

Well it does in the sense that an animal responds well to clear instructions, encouragement and regular reinforcement.

Read it, Karen Pryor is great!!

Clarissimo · 19/01/2009 18:48

Hmm, well if teating someone like an animal in any way correlates to how my Mum treats her dog then that's a positive!

And if it keeps Sam safe and happy, then even better tbh.

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moondog · 19/01/2009 18:49

Yes.
All beings need to be treated with kindness, respect and have the rules of play clearly expalined to them in a way they understand.
Simple really.

Clarissimo · 19/01/2009 18:51

Yep and e ven better it amde dh sit up (and beg - maybe not).... ABA seems like a new scary thing to him but he gets the dof training LOL

I shall have to make it clear it doesn't involve neutering to cure aggression

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moondog · 19/01/2009 18:54

It was a scary new thing to me once (and i'm now considering a PhD in the damn thing.)

My own dd has made astounding progress with an application of it so I speak as a professional in field and a parent. Today is the happiest I have been for ages and we charted up her progress to date and had a big meeting in which her progress has been discussed and the entire school (initially very suspicious) have no told me they are sold on the idea and never want her ABA therapist to leave.

Clarissimo · 19/01/2009 19:07

Wow, impressive!

DS3 was up before panel last week so we should hear about him soon- ds1 is a bit touch and go atm in his school, hoping he will pull it out of the bag though, I do have faith in his ability to do so (but think I'm the only one)

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electra · 19/01/2009 20:32

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moondog · 19/01/2009 21:47

I'm off to see Vince Carbone in York in May.Can't wait!

electra · 19/01/2009 23:29

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amber32002 · 20/01/2009 07:22

Weirdly, there's huge parallels between the things I respond to, and the things that horses do. Worth getting Temple Grandin's book, Thinking in Pictures, which talks a lot about the differences in how a reasonable number of those with an ASD see and sense the world.

Horses treat every new thing with suspicion. They treat things with suspicion even if they've seen them before. They can't bear being looked at directly or anyone moving fast and unexpectedly round them. They like to know routine. They rear up if a fly lands on them, but apparently don't mind huge heavy weights on them that much. They are calmed down with repetitive deep pressure or thick rugs over them. They can see patterns in things humans can't, and hear things humans can't. (Well, except that I can too.)

A house can be a nightmare. Perfumes, aftershaves, room sprays, air fresheners, bleach, low-energy flickering lighting, people talking, traffic noise, aircraft noise, tv noise, rough textures, painfully rough or tight-feeling clothing and shoes, sudden changes of routine, unexpected events, phones going, newspapers arriving with a thud...it's like being in the Battle of the Somme. But other people wouldn't even notice a thing.

Sometimes behaviour problems happen when a child has tried for a long time to get away from all of this, to make the pain stop, and they can't. And we don't even know which bits hurts the most so we can tell you about it. We don't have the words or common sense to know how to explain it.

moondog · 20/01/2009 07:29

Amber,I am fvery familiar with Dr Grandin's work.Facinating isn't it?
Really Electra? (I am actually going in holiday time, such is my eager beaver mentality!)

TotalChaos · 20/01/2009 08:14

v. interesting amber - DS in some ways loves dogs - but is also nervy when they are too close -he is freaked out because a couple of times a friend's big dogs have bounded up to him and licked him - I think it's the bounding that bothers him. Really must get hold of Thinking in Pictures, I do suspect that's how DS sees the world.

amber32002 · 20/01/2009 08:40

TotalChaos, yes, I can relate to that. We have dogs, and I know their likely behaviour so can predict what they'll do or not do. But on holiday in a cottage last year there was a dog on the farm which raced up to me, and my every instinct was to panic because I didn't know what this dog might or might not do. Only long training of how to behave around dogs made me stand still and appear calm. A big bounding licking dog is sometimes like being mauled by a bear, especially when you're smaller than adult size.

Anything unexpected, even as an adult, 'throws' me completely. At that same holiday, the owner rang the doorbell unexpectedly mid evening to say hello. I hid. I'm a grown woman with a family and I actually hid . Why? I hadn't had a chance to prepare what to say or do, so was immediately in a complete panic. Poor dh had to manage.

Lots of days are fairly predictable and relaxing and fine as I've got older, thank goodness. I guess we just learn more rules.

OverSimplistica · 20/01/2009 09:39

(Tis Me, OP)

DS1 loves cats but I am wary after our last one died horribly and suddenly at a year. We do have an old cat still, but he's more dh's. I think I neee to look at another kitten for ds1 maybe.

I know that ds1's main issue wis children, or at least ones his age or thereabouts- he'd fab with littlies. I know if we could get him in a SN school he'd fly and be truly brilliant (was first classed as child who was extremely bright) but there isn't a suitable place for him and MS has caused him to close off completely. I'd HE but DH isn't keen (understandably- dh sleps in day as works nights and DS1 has lots of noisy stims etc).

Davros · 20/01/2009 10:08

Critics of ABA often dismiss it as "dog training" (I dismiss them as arses!) but basically its because its behavioural. If you have a child with good expressive but poor receptive communication you could look at the Nina Lovaas Reading & Writing Program or something like it. In ASD its usually the other way round so the good expressive with poor receptive doesn't get so much attention.

moondog · 20/01/2009 10:10

Davros, they are generally folk who know nowt about it.I came into this as very suspicious SALT and it just all made perfect sense.

And I really really really need to be getting on with my ABA MSc lit. review RIGHT NOW!!!