Can anyone on here tell me how you can tell when it's asperger's and when they are just a child who finds life difficult.

[myredcardigan]

Hi, DS is 5. Loves school. Is very bright and academic and studious. However, he really struggles socially. He does want to have friends but it's as if he is unsure how to interact. He often follows other children keen to join in with them but his social skills are very immature.

He does have imaginative play but his play is quite rigid and he has complete tantrum/meltdowns if it doesn't go as he wants it to. When playing with other children or DD1 he is very dictatorial about what they/she must do. He will start screaming if something like a sheet of A4 won't stand up by itself because he is so focused on wanting it to do what he wants.

His language is not at all strange. And he had very good non verbal communication before speech (pointed before his first birthday etc)
Could he just be very socially immature?
He also has episodes of hysteria over little insignificant things like tonight it was 'I don't want that to be there.' He is also very, very highly strung.

Having two further children and with DD1 now 2.5 I can clearly see how her tantrums are frequent but short lived, different from his. She also plays with everything and anything and is very easily distracted. He has a super?!? attention span.

How can I tell if he needs more help/support or if he is just different or immature?

TIA

Have you spoken to his teacher? Does s/he have any concerns?

Has his school said anything ? Is he just 'shy' in your opinion? or do you see something 'different'? Maybe, if you are really worried about it, you could have a chat with his teacher ... is she experienced?

I think you need to go with your gut instincts as I believe parents are the experts when is comes to their children.

Thank you both. His teacher has been a little cagey and also seems to regularly change her mind from thinking he is just exceptionally shy to suggesting he struggles socially. She keeps asking me what I think as if she doesn't want to say/suggest too much.

He is shy, very much so but it's a stange shy/stubborn sort of thing. You could offer him the most coveted toy in exchange for him saying hello to someone and he'd refuse.

He is very emotional and loving and often clingy. I don't know if this is typical or usual or anything. I seem to spend my whole life worrying about him!

Teachers are not really in a position to say I think that your child might have such and such a problem as they are simply not qualified to judge that. Any worries that you have you need to list, perhaps keep a dairy and take it to your GP asking for a referral to your areas diagnostic services whoever/whatever they happen to be/use.
There is another condition/problem that sometimes can be misdiagnosed simply because professionals, teachers, GP's, Health visitors and the public in general don't know much about it. It can occur with other conditions or on its own.
It can appear like a refusal to speak at times to different people or in different situations. It is often misinterpreted as stubbornness but is in fact a extreme anxiety of speaking called selective mutism. Generally a child will be able to converse fluently at home.

Hi, thanks for the support and advice. I stayed up until 1am going through the archives on here and found lots of useful and interesting stuff.

A few references to a test called Sally Anne which I did with him this morning. He had no trouble telling me that Sally would look in box one as she didn't know that Anne had moved the toy. That's suppose to be a good sign, I think.

I don't think he'd ever have enough probelems to warrant a statement or probably even extra support as he loves the structure of school and thrives there. I just would like to find out how to help him cope with all the other stuff like change in routine or social interaction.

I have a little chap(just 6) like your ds myred and we thought he could have aspergers as his behaviour can be quite strange-he does the major meltdowns over the smallest of things not going right for him ie..trying to draw a specific thing and it not looking right,so real heartbroken tears and wailings of 'I just can't do this' etc etc.He's painfully shy at school,and seems to find it hard to fit in the 'group',he does have little friends though,but they always seem brash and tough little cookies compared to him.He is not a pfb,as he has a much older sister,so he's pretty bombproof in that respect .

He can spend hours playing with the same toy,maybe a car on the stairs,just watching the wheels turning,odd things like that.He also 'thinks' differently to others his age-it's hard to explain though,just something we can't put our finger on,he is natural born worrier I think.

Spoke to a doctor and they said it would be rare to diagnose at his early age (he did have other problems earlier on in toddlerhood-global developmental delay).So at the moment we are going with the fact he is super shy and highly sensitive.

Here's a link to a book/website that I would recommend reading www.hsperson.com/pages/child.htm,we found it insightful in helping our ds.I'm happy to have such a sensitive little soul in our family unit, I just hope he won't get too hurt in the future and can cope with whatever life hurls at him.

Epic post over

I would get a referral to a developmental paed if you are concerned. We did this with our DS when he was in Reception. He was diagnosed with a speech disorder (which he now doesn't have in Year 2 ) and any concerns about ASD were ruled out.

As wasuup says, teachers aren't in a position to diagnose but if she was really concerned surely she would be more persistent about it? You can always speak to the school SenCo for further advice and about who to contact if necessary.

Fwiw, DS was socially immature with no real friends (and also academically advanced) in Reception and now aged nearly 7, he's pretty much normal, whatever that is! Trust your instincts though and do what is best for your DS. There is no harm in getting some help/support now even if it does turn out to just be a late development thing, like my DS. Good luck.

My DS is 7 and has selective mutism and has a lot of the traits you descibe in your DS.

Does your DS talk at school at all?

My DS loves school and is getting on really well academically (sp) although does not talk in school at all.

When he was 5 he found the social aspect of school difficult and would cling to the playground helper at breaktimes but has gradually got more confident and will now play with a select number of friends.

He does have a phonological disorder which he is seeing a SALT for.

Like your DS my DS has meltdowns over the smallest things if they don't go his way and is very much a perfectionist.
He also likes to take the lead when playing with his younger sister and be in charge.

When you say he acts in a strange shy/stubborn sort of thing that pretty much describes my DS.
My DS gets this blank emotionless look on his face when confronted with someone talking to him at school and it is difficult to describe but it is not in a stubborn way more of a frightened look.

He is also very loving and sensitive and very clingy towrads me although the clingy side has got better as he has gotton older.

The SM website might be of interest to you so you can see if any thing rings a bell with your DS.

Good Luck

www.selectivemutism.co.uk

Thank you, Posh, Castles and Faith.

Yes, he does speak in school but as little as he can get away with. He is exceptionally quiet in a group situation but will engage fine with his teacher on a one to one basis. His language (when he uses it)is fluent and in no way strange IYKWIM.

Castles, your last paragraph gives me hope because TBH, he is very socially immature and that may be the only problem. Then I think about the rigid (but very imaginative) play (though he doesn't have a 2h attention span) and the anxiety and the meltdowns if something isn't quite right and I'm back to square one. Maybe he's just seriously highly strung which coupled with the shyness and the brightness is a lethal personality combination. Thanks for listening. MRC

DS has only just started to put his hand up in class and answer questions. He was always fine in a 1:1 or small group situation.

He also still suffers from weird anxiety moments. He has completely NT friends who are the same. I often see children in 2 camps: thinkers and doers. DS definitely thinks (too much). Something to think about.

There was a lovely thread a while back about borderline ASD/general quirkiness versus what is "normal". There was a heartwarming comment (for me) from someone whose name I can't remember along the lines of "as long as they can do maths and read (at school) who cares if they lie on the floor to look at the wheels of their cars all lined up in a row (and other such quirky stuff)". Will see if I can find it.

Thank you, Castles. Yes, he absolutely does think too much. That is one of his problems, I think.

I just want him to be happy!

Ok, I'm sat here in tears. I've just got back from collecting him early from school because they phoned me and said he was really struggling and tearful and had gone into the corner.

His teacher said she thought he was struggling with the lack of structure on the last day of term and the fact it was non-uniform. He was (unusually) hesitant going in this morning.

I have casually mentioned something to my GP before (about 6mths ago)and he looked at me as if I was mad and projecting my anxieties onto him. DS was sat chatting away to the Dr so I'm not surprised but then he had seen him twice in the previous week due to ear problems.

I just don't know what to do now. Yesterday I glanced at a book on AS in the library and it mentioned lack of ability to follow a gaze, difficulty in understanding that each person has separate thought and difficulty reading expression. He has no problem with any of those so I just don't know what to think. He also def. has empathy and can tell when his sisters are upset and will comfort them.

Does anyone have any pointers on how to help develop his social maturity? I guess I'll go on from there. Thanks.

Myredcardigan, how is he with sensory things - sudden loud noises, hearing people against background noise, coping with flickering lights, coping with clothing or shoes that are new and unfamiliar, coping with baths or showers, perfumes and scents?

I know how you feel MRC . My DS found changes to the routine really hard in Reception but he is totally fine now. They mature so much between years 1 and 2. My advice is don't try to self-diagnose DS or read stuff on the internet, apart from MN but go and see a developmental paediatrician. Whatever the outcome, it will give you peace of mind and DS will be able to get support if he needs it. Don't forget it is the end of term. And Christmas. Both of my completely NT DDs have been in tears for most of the week.

Thanks ladies. Sorry I haven't been back sooner but I wanted to keep myself away from the internet!

Amber, he has no sensory issues at all that I am aware of. No food issues, was always fine with lumps, isn't jittery despite being nervous and anxious. Will wear anything I give him. No problem with lights or sounds.

Castles, maybe Christmas is to blame or maybe it's just highlighting his difficulties. I don't know.

Thank you,Yulewitch.

I will have a look at those disorders and see if he fits. I'm not desperate to label him, just to find a way to help him.

Very interesting Mumslife. My DS sounds very like you. He has all the AS traits but some are really really mild. But the social side is his problem - he behaves annoyingly to others and doesnt really have many friends at present. And he also self stims too much - he looks odd shaking a lot

I just hope to work away at the social side for him, and limit the self stimming and worry later if he really is AS .

The RED FLAGS for autism (from NAS website)
Bear in mind the main difference in diagnosing Aspergers is that language is not delayed beyond 3-4yrs.

Communication concerns

Does not respond to his/her name
Cannot tell me what s/he wants
Language is delayed
Doesn't follow directions
Appears deaf at times
Seems to hear sometimes but not at others
Doesn't point or wave goodbye
Used to say a few words, but now doesn't.
Social concerns

Doesn't smile socially
Seems to prefer to play alone
Gets things for him/herself
Is very independent
Does things 'early'
Has poor eye contact
Is in his/her own world
Tunes us out
Is not interested in other children.
Behavioural concerns

Tantrums
Is hyperactive/unco-operative/oppositional
Doesn't know how to play with toys
Gets stuck on things regularly
Toe walks
Has unusual attachments to toys
Lines things up
Is oversensitive to certain textures or sounds
Has odd movement patterns.
Absolute indications for immediate further evaluation

No babbling by 12 months
No gesturing (pointing, waving, bye-bye, etc) by 12 months
No single words by 16 months
No two-word spontaneous (not just echolalic) phrases by 24 months
ANY loss of ANY language or social skills at ANY age.

Sorry, those red flags refer to toddlers really because certainly AS kids grow up relatively 'normally.' Eg My DS(only 3) has AS but is very confident (to the point of seeming arrogant), has no food or sensory issues, doesn't stim. In just one term at pre-school with 1-to-1 help he has transformed, they have brainwashed him with the rules of acceptable and expected behaviour and some days he is now better behaved than many NT boys his age. But he still has his far out way of looking at things and wickedly nutty sense of humour that I think are assets.
Good luck.

myredcardigan-you really need to get your DS assessed as it is impossible for you to determine whether he has AS-or not. It needs a professional diagnosis.

What I would say is that no two people present with AS in the same way. You cannot say "well he does this so he cannot have AS" because there are no hard and fast rules. I have 5 DSs-DS3 and DS5 have an official AS diagnosis, and my oldest two are in their twenties and also certainly AS but never assessed. So 4 of my 5-and they are all very different!

Your DS is at the classic age for AS diagnosis, because it is when they enter school that their problems really start to show themselves. (I think most dx are at age 6). So for his sake, go to your GP and ask for a referral-it if turns out he does not have AS no harm will have been done, but if he does, you will save years of misunderstanding and unnecessary difficulties.

It can take a year or more to get from GP referral to a DX so don't delay. You may find he's not on the spectrum at all but at least you'll have spent less time wondering and worrying. If he is then you can get him the help he needs sooner.