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I want to "assess" where DS2 is before the SALT assessment tomorrow

243 replies

lingle · 16/11/2008 22:22

A SALT more specialised in receptive language delay (probably from an ASD unit? who knows) will come to assess DS2 (3.2) at nursery tomorrow. I know it will be more negative than how I think about him and that's ok - doing her job, etc.

Is there any accessible information that would help me find out what kind of place on the speech centile charts he would now be on if my "mum" assessment is right? I'll probably be a bit down after the assessment so want to think it through now.

This is how I would see DS2 in a "snapshot" right now, (sorry so long). If you remember my first posts you'll see how much things have changed....and I really do think that depriving him of recorded music has made part of the difference. It's like a drug for him!

receptive speech:
DS2 understands everything I say to him about our daily routine. He understands my 3-word sentences ("give a banana to DS1")in context. He can understand simple instructions from a different room ("DS2 come back to the kitchen and put your plate away please" REPLY "ok"). Have told DS1 he no longer needs to use 1 word at a time (DS1 did this instinctively to help) but can use sentences.

expressive speech:nearly 150 "real" words now (I said 200 on here in July - I was so wrong! I was just coaching him! but now it's qualitatively different). About 20 of them verbs with 20 other more "not quite consistent" verbs coming.

combining spontaneously into 2-word sentences with more fluency and variety every day (DH noticed a difference after being away for a week). These are increasingly natural-sounding eg "whatsthematter DS1" when DS1 burst into tears or "mummy got hurt" when I say "ow!" after being jumped on by DS1.

still uses a single word to represent the word he can't think of eg when tired he will use the word "open" instead of "cut". Many examples of this. Many overgeneralisations still. eg his water words are "water" "bath" "sea" "puddle" but all other bodies of water such as rivers, waterfalls, streams, etc are described as one of these or as "splishsploshsplash". So doesn't have a word for everything in his life yet (we live by a waterfall, stream, pond etc)

names family members spontaneously with ease ("hello daddy!"). Starting to do the same for other children. But if DH says "hello DS2" will still say "hello mummy" in reply (overgeneralising again - he used to just repeat and it was hard for him to learn to say my name instead of his own). Uses own name in sentences.

Echolalia fading - appears when tired or insecure or doesn't understand someone. Rare now with me but still uses assertive tone + repeat language instead of "yes". Starting to say "yes" before the assertive repeat but this is very much learned not natural to him.

Understands the basic "who" "where" and "what" questions. Just starting to understand answers to where questions that involve "school" "work" or other places that he can't see. Progressing fast here. Always answers "what can you see?" appropriately. Nearly there with "eat" "hold" and "wear" but still muddles them when tired.

No "why"or "when" questions yet. Progressing but not there yet with "shoes on first THEN park" and other two-event sequences. Understands "it's time to" but still doesn't always understand the description of where we're going next.

Just starting to get to grips with under/over on/off etc. Good with up/down.

Lastly, the grandma test: my mum says "this child talks just as you would expect a two-year old child to" (ie she found his speech pretty "normal" but a year or so behind other kids his age when we spent a week with her).

Other areas. Doesn't initiate socially with (new)nursery peers yet. Passive and quiet there. But joins in any physical game initiated by others (involving bouncing, falling, giggling, etc) with great skill, great care for others' space and excellent turn-taking. Visited "old" nursery friend and they trotted off together up to the bedroom after 10 minutes' hesitation (it was his first time in that house) and did about 10 minutes cooperatively on the train track.

Initiates socially with family and especially brother all the time.
When alone, "role-plays" conversations with brother (hardly sings now! poor thing! his cruel mother wanted him to talk instead! My psychotherapist neighbour thinks I'm terrible!)

Understands all my tones of voice and facial expressions. Understands when I'm joking, cross, playful, teasing, etc from either of these. Switched on and engaged with me at pretty much all times even if engrossed in trains or listening to music. There is no activity I can't join in. Not in a bubble. Not in "own world"

Not the most imaginative child but happy to play along with "doggy" going to sleep, waking up, etc. Pretends objects are other objects. Now pretends to be a "monsta" by holding out arms and making monster noise. Wants me and others to look scared and scream in response. It doesn't matter if we don't run away so he understands the meaning of the game is more than physical. When DS1 is a "monster", DS2 pretends to be scared and runs to me to pretend he needs protecting from DS1 but also laughing.

Fascinated by numbers, loves looking at the second hand on the clock, identifies speed limit signs and traffic light colours all the time. Since the days got shorter, adores turning the lights on and off. Lights on and off is the obsession. Does it about 50 times a day if nothing else is going on . Also flushes the loo about 20 times a day. Will pester to be allowed to do this at other people's houses.

Apologies and thanks to anyone who got this far....

OP posts:
lingle · 08/01/2009 19:42

see moondog's post of 28 November at 18.00.

OP posts:
lingle · 11/01/2009 23:09

Tclanger - how is your speech and language group going? could I join please? I can send you an email address.

Moondog. I looked up the Derbyshire Language Scheme on the web - thanks so much for the pointer.

Irrespective of the ASD/no ASD saga, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that DS2's biggest issue is receptive language delay. We're been a "combiner" in Hanen for months on expressive speech but I'm only just confident in saying we are on the "combiner" stage in receptive speech. It seems strange for expressive to be "ahead" in this way but maybe I'm saying that my child's understanding is very limited for his age but he can express a lot of what he understands. We're even getting a rudimentary past tense. So he commands: "turn the light on daddy!" and then says "daddy got turn the light on!" afterwards.

On the Derbyshire Language Scheme, in terms of receptive speech, DS2 is right at the beginning of their "Simple Sentence Stage 2-4 words" stage. They start with the children having to respond to commands with two verbal concepts like "where's teddy's nose?" which is just where DS2 now is.

So I'm thinking right now that nursery can build up the social communication (which is pretty good at home/on playdates but non-existent at nursery) and I can work on the receptive speech.

When it comes to controlling cues/gestures, I suspect a little knowledge might be a dangerous thing - after all he learns from gesture/routine and it's only for testing that you want to pull away the gestures. So I think I'd skim the programme for ideas rather than trying to follow it fully and "assess" him.

Has anyone got any experience of Derbyshire Language Scheme? All comments on it and this post welcome as ever.

OP posts:
TotalChaos · 12/01/2009 08:27

Don't think I've any experience of DLS.

Agree about controlling cues/gestures - at that stage I was advised to use as much visual support as possible to help DS learn new words/understand what was said. At 3 DS's expressive was slightly ahead of his receptive too - it did level out relatively quickly though so both were comparable.

Tclanger · 12/01/2009 09:06

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lingle · 12/01/2009 11:07

I've sent you an email Tclanger.

OP posts:
notfromaroundhere · 28/01/2009 19:24

Can I come out of the closet as a calendar crossing-off follower.

We started this just under 3 weeks ago and DS1 is really into it. After about a week he started remarking on the crossed out days, counting them saying things likes "lots of days all finished" etc. For the last 3 nights he's counted them when its got to future dates has noted there aren't any crosses on them yet and asked in a roundabout way why there weren't any.

When would be a good time to put a sticker showing an event in the future? I am not trying to rush him as slow and steady will win the race on big concepts for him, but I wondered if this was a "sign"? If not, what kind of thing am I looking for?

Any views/ideas would be much appreciated

moondog · 28/03/2009 23:48

Lost track of this thread.
Not, that is brilliant.
All signs that he is ready to move on with symbols (and eventually writing hopefully).
I know it's an old thread but did you do it?

notfromaroundhere · 30/03/2009 22:17

Yes we did, the in-laws hosted a little family party to have an interesting 1st calendar event . It's proving very useful with his current Christmas obssession!

Could I ask how is best to deal when something marked in the calendar as a future event doesn't end up happening due to illness etc? We had this happen last week and I verbally explained but wondered if there was a better way of dealing with it.

moondog · 30/03/2009 23:03

How lovely!
Everything and anything can go in (but don't crowd it too much-swimming, riding, church, birthday parties, trips to the cinema).
We use a mixture of our own drawings, things we cut out and stick in (say from Google Images), the stickers that come with the Organised Mum calendar itself, and those I make with Widgit software.

If something doesn't happen, explain this simply, while crossing it out (in a different way to yuor normal crossing out). There might be tears and tantrums but hey, that's life!

notfromaroundhere · 31/03/2009 22:03

Great idea Moondog. I'll stash a different colour pen with the calendar to use if other events don't go ahead as planned. DS1 was quite accepting of the explanation but it's not always easy to tell if he's really understood but with a different crossing out he can look back and see that it didn't happen IYKWIM so thanks for solving that problem .

moondog · 31/03/2009 23:17

Not sure if on that thread I mentioned colour coding days too with a dot (you can buy packs of them in WHSmith). Put a red (or whatever other colour you fancy) in the corner of the days child will NOT be in school/nursery.

Helps introduce the concept of w/ends, holidays, teacher training and so on.

notfromaroundhere · 01/04/2009 21:33

He only goes to preschool 2 mornings a week, should I hold off the sticker system until he goes more? That probably won't happen until September.
Our biggest problem day is actually Sunday; DP works Mon-Sat and although DS1 love spending more time with him on Sunday it does really unsettle him and we get some quite odd behaviour as a result. I wonder if I could do some sticker code for dad not at work.

Sorry for the continuing questions but it's working so well I don't want to mess it up (the concept of tomorrow seems to have clicked in the last week and he seems to have got the days in order too)

sc13 · 02/04/2009 11:52

I've started the calendar too! Not sure it's sunk in yet (mostly DS takes the opportunity to count the days of the month), but we have a big sticker for his birthday in 11 days' time, do the countdown every night, and hopefully by then he'll have grasped the concept a bit more. Am still pondering the visual timetable though, because DS seems to cope without it, at least at home (they have one at nursery, but hasn't made much difference yet - perhaps DS isn't much of a visual learner after all)

moondog · 02/04/2009 16:03

Not, yes, good idea. I'd add an extra sticker for Daddy not being home.SC, give it time.Biggest mistake people make is rejecting ideas without giving them a fair trial. I did it for a YEAR before it started to sink in.

TClanger · 02/04/2009 18:59

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moondog · 03/04/2009 08:45

It would be very useful.It's actually the thing of greatest priority to me (but know what you mean about the plethora of them. Days of the week are part of the calendar anyway though and feelings could be too.

TotalChaos · 03/04/2009 10:02

TClang - you don't need wallspace - you can do it with a really nice diary (I've got one similar to but not same as the Organised mum one) that I found in Borders.

tclanger · 04/04/2009 10:28

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