Exclusion - any ideas - please help!

[WedgiesMum]

DS is aged 9 in Y5 he has AS and is highly demand avoidant (poss with ADD). He has been excluded for 10 days for reasons we feel are related to his disability and for lack of care and consideration of his needs. We were unable to discuss this on Friday, when the incident happened and are going to school to discuss things tomorrow.

Bit of background. New Head since september and she is very aggressive in her dealings with us, this is his 3rd exclusion since sept. She has made it clear she is looking to permanently exclude DS and has now put this in writing. We are currently waiting for a result of a statutory assessment and there are 2 weeks left before the LA must respond.

I have downloaded stuff from IPSEA, looked at SOS!SEN, looked at the ACE information and amplanning to contact all 3 on Monday when they are available. Also planning to contact the Local Incusion Officer, his paed, his psychologist and behaviour support person asap on Monday. As I am a TA (at a different school) I am also planning on talking to my, very supportive, Head to see if he can suggest anything.

So is there anyone else we can ask for help? Am feeling a bit like the rug has been pulled from under us, previous head said he would never permanently exclude DS because of his needs.

Am confused about whether to consider a managed move, DS is happy with his teacher, who seems to understand him unlike most of the rest of the staff (although this teacher was off sick last week - a contributory factor to DS's behaviour) and he has friends who can tolerate his extreme moods and who he enjoys playing with. DD is also at the school in Y3 and moving her would not be an option. But would he be better with a fresh start away from a Head who I DO NOT trust to manage him or deal with him and who has made it clear she does not want him?

He is feeling very confused and upset about this and can't understand why it is for so long. He said yesterday 'I don't have anything left to live for' - how heartbreaking is that?

Any help greatfully received!

So and for you and ds.
My ds is 8 and has dx of AS and ADHD. When he first started school we had no idea he had these problems but within 5 weeks he got his first exclusion IME a head with that sort of attitude is a major obstacle. DS HT at his first school was like this - she didn't actually put it in writing but made it quite clear that she was building a case for permanent exclusion. I moved both ds and dd who was in YR1 at the time. I couldn't have my children in a school run by someone like that.

I am by your Heads attitude even after my experieces. Ds was 4 so below statutory school age and had no dx becuase when he first started school we hadn't needed to ask for any help or referrals for him. Its truly horrible that your ds with his documented needs is being treated like this and IMO completely unacceptable. My heart breaks for him - I remember ds telling me he wished he was dead so he couldn't be naughty any more. This was nearly 4 years ago and yet I still get a lump in my throat thinking about it {{{hugs}} to you and your ds.

For me the only answer was to move schools and ds did really well in his other school which sadly he had to leave this summer as its is just a first school. He has had a statement since he started there but even without it I know they would have been so much better than his first school. For a start they saw him as a troubled child that they could help and not just as a problem to be got rid of.

I found it really helpful to actually speak to someone at IPSEA. They are a PITA to get hold of but they're great. Try first thing when the office opens in the morning - i have usually been lucky then. Other then that it sounds as though you have (or will) contacted everyone who can help at this stage.

Good luck xx

The other ones worth talking to are SOS!SEn as they are a little easier to track doen than IPSEA and very good for anything like this.

Am expecting to be where you are in a year or so so and lots of supporting thoughts, I know how tough it is (DS1 tried to kill ds2 Friday so believe me I DO)

I am sort of in your situation at the moment, albeit with a full-time Statement (which actually makes it both easier - as the LEA are making sure the school do all that they can - and harder - as there's not much more that the LEA themselves can put in place).

It's crap, isn't it. J has just moved to the Junior school from the lovely, inclusive Infants, and they clearly want him moved on and have tried to exclude him. I say 'tried' because when they tried to exclude him (for really quite minor, if rude, behaviour) I pointed out that that was their right, but I would formally complain about their discrimination against my son on the grounds of his disability. I cringed even as I said it, but they WERE!

They weren't making reasonable adjustments for his disability, as they weren't following the recommendations from me or from other professionals, and they were excluding him for things that were part of his disability and which he finds very hard to control.

I printed out the following cases from the SENDIST website, which are all examples of cases of children with autism/ ASD/ ADHD, which is what my son has (autism and ADHD), who were excluded or otherwise treated unfairly and whose schools were told off for discrimination.

The HT certainly didn't like it BUT he got the message: that I wouldn't accept an exclusion and that he would have to work harder to put things in place for J.

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0031.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0032.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0022.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0049.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0046.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0043.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0053.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/DIS0030.pdf

He's not yet excluded J but made it very clear that he is furious that I've threatened him. I feel like saying, well, if you're so sure that you aren't discriminating, you'd exclude him despite my threats to complain about Dis. Discrim., so you obviously know that you are discriminating then! But they keep saying that they can't meet his needs and even though the LEA will offer ANYTHING that they need to make the placement work.

The fact that school can't cope too well is good ammunition for a Statement, and you're in a strong position there. It might be worth laying it on the line with this HT (and with the SEN governor if necessary) that you don't intend on removing him from the school, that exclusions would be disability discrimination (unless he does something so horrific/ violent that it warrants the less favourable treatment that makes it discrimination) and so they're best off working with you to get the LEA to provide them with more resources to enable them to meet his needs.Ask the school to call for an emergency review (I'm guessing that he's on School Action Plus) with all professionals involved with your son present.

That's the game I'm playing at the moment - work with me, because J is not going anywhere! Admittedly, I'm in a different position because it's very hard to permanently exclude Statemented children and because the LEA know that this is the only not-atronomically-expensive placement suitable to meet J's needs.

I know what you mean about a fresh start being good. For me, the issue was about J losing his friends (which have taken a very long time to find) and also, why should J have to move when it's the HT's attitude to inclusion that needs to change?

When you say you're waiting for the results of statutory assessment, do you mean to see if you'll get an assessment or to see if you'll get a Statement?

Good luck - I know too well how soul-destroying it is, but the law (and moral right!) is on yours and your son's side. xx

Thanks!

I have already moved him once in Y2 from our local school who wouldn't accept the Ed Psych's findings, and had a very bullying Head (there is an ancient thread somewhere about it). Whilst he was unhappy at that school he got really upset at leaving his friends behind and cried on Christmas Day when he read a card from a friend from there.

I am definitely going to talk to my Head and ask for his advice on which schools to look at. Would be prepared to take him to my school actually as I know how brilliant they are with SEN kids but not sure if that is a good idea. What do you think??

Perhaps to start somewhere new after Christmas so he can join in with the christmas stuff at his current school - and then he can go to a new place with a statement in place (hopefully)?? Don't want to make a rash move though just to get him away from the witch lady. (Also need to start looking for a senior school that will accept him as it will obviously take time to find one suitable for his needs.)

x post with you givemesleep.....

We are waiting to see if we get a statement, this is another thing the school mismanaged. They should and could have applied for it by the end of Y3 but left him completely unsupported in Y4 until I pointed out at Easter that they had a duty to give him support as he had a dx (which they claimed never to have seen - ha!) and has been on SA+ since he started at the school.

Thanks for the links - I need all the help I can get.

We have his MEP (multi element plan) meeting on Friday with all his professionals invited. I am contacting them on Monday to ask if they can be present as well as let them know about the exclusion to try and get my 'big guns' there.

Yup definitely mention disability discrimination! This scares teachers. They must also agree to support statementing, after all if they can't cope, he clearly blooming NEEDS a statement. Sorry you are going through this.

If you've moved him once, I wouldn't do it again. I also wouldn't move him to your school, however good it is - I am a teacher at J's local high school, and I can already forsee many many problems. Best out of that in my opinion.

We had 2 years of this at DS's last school. He's now 10 and has AS and a statement. A very unsupportive head, who rigourously (and visiously) inforced the schools 3 stikes and your excluded policy. It got to the point where DS was at school for 2 days and then excluded for 5, back for another 3 and then excluded for 10.

It is VERY difficult for a head to permanently exclude a child with special needs (you'll be in an even better postion with a statement). The LEA will want him to stay put, as it will cost them lots of money otherwise. Without their support for a permex, and with you shouting discrimination at every available opportunity she will be very unlikely to do it. Even with DS's exclusion record the head was unwilling to do it when it came to the crunch, despite threatening it often.

I eventually removed DS as he was spending so little time at school, and they weren't managing his health and safety, that he is better off with the measley 5 hours home tution the LEA are giving him.

I guess the head got her way after all!!

Hi Wedgies Mum. I hope it went well today. We had a similar situation with Ht(refusing support and excluding Ds in equal measure). It is a horrible situation and awful to feelyour lovely child is not wanted.
The other number that might be helpful is the Education Advice Line helpline 0845 070 4002. This is more a legal advocacy help line. You leave a message and they phone you back within a few days. Addiss also have exclusion advice but I havent looked at it for years ( ds is now in special)
Hope you get the statement sorted.

Well the head witch teacher's account of events tally's with what DS said but she is not prepared to see that their actions either exacerbated the situation or caused it and is still looking towards a permanent exclusion.

I said I was very disappointed given we are so close to having a statement and that if they felt they could not manage him at school then the least they could do would be to give him the dignity of a managed move to allow him to keep some self esteem.

It also appears that next week he is supposed to be in an educational establishment for the week - to keep him in full time education but not in his school. but surely for an AS child familiarity is the key rather than sticking him in an unfamiliar school? Have suggested my school because at least he would have me there, otherwise he would end up excluded again from a school where he knew no-one and wherenothing was familiar to him! She was very sniffy about that too - seems we can't win with her.

Also for our meeting on Friday it appears that neither the paed or the child psych can be there so am feeling like there is no point in it happening - this meeting is apparently crucial now in deciding on permanent exclusion or not.

On a brighter note the Inclusion Officer has emailed and said she is calling me tomorrow and that we can expect the LS response by the end of next week and she expects it to be in the form of a propsed statement.

Seem to have spent the whole day crying as I talk to people. Don't usually blub so much but every time I talk about it I cry

((Hugs))

{{{hugs}}}
It sounds like she is trying to get rid of him before he gets a statement - maybe she and ds old head are related. Thankfully that old witch has retired andd the school now have a really good head apparently - too late for ds but great news for other children like him.

Permanent exclusion sounds horrible but if she is that opposed to having your son in her school then it might be better for him to move somewhere else where you can build a decent working relationship with the school. My Mum is a SENCO and she says that sometimes her school have had to go down the route of permanent exclusion as it has been the only way to get the LEA to accept the school's arguement that the child needs a statement but support. Her school are very inclusive and would never do this unless it was the only way to get that child the support they need.

Obviously your ds school is very different but a permanent exclusion will still help in your fight for a statement for ds. Its shit though and I really feel for you as that time when ds was having all those problems at his first school was without doubt the hardest time of my entire life Fingers crossed about the proposed statement and good luck for friday - I will be thinking of you xx

Thanks for the support peeps!

In a better place today, spoke to our Inclusion Officer who was fab and was confident we will get the statement. She also was unhappy about how school have treated DS and is coming on Friday to add her support to us, she has also called in our local Autism Outreach Teacher who will be on our side too.

Behaviour Support lady phoned and was livid with school as they had not informed her of the exclusion and is making sure that she can come Friday too. She was about the reasons for his exclusion and is very much in our corner.

Finally the new Ed Psych phoned, and he was LOVELY! Can't belive I'm saying that because in the past they have been a bit wishy washy but he has a real sense of humour and was not pleased with how school have been handling DS so he seems to be with Team Wedgie too!

Now that I know we will have some professionals backing us am feeling much happier about the meeting and about fighting a permanent exclusion. Unfortunately I think the Head just wants rid (I really wish it was just a ploy to get the LA to act, but I know it's not ) but I'm not going to take her attitude lying down.

I'm so glad I have you all here to talk to. In RL most people don't get what it's like and whilst they are kind they just don't feel the panic and anger which this kind of thing brings.

You are all STARS!

Go for it WM - don't let the witch (AKA bitch) force him out of somewhere where he has friends who get him.

Fight, Team Wedgie!

Good luck x

Do you think I should get 'Team Wedgie' t-shirts done for the occasion??

Definitely

I will do the same for J's forthcoming review, but will be a cheapskate and just alter the 'w' to an 'h' on the Obama T-shirts so that when the HT says 'J can't stay at this school', I can whip off my jacket to reveal the slogan 'yes he can'!

...snigger...

Its great that you have so many people on your side wedgie It sounds much more hopeful for friday now. I don't blame you for not wanting to move him again and if i was in your shoes I think I'd fight the permanent exclusion too. With ds it was different as he was only 4 so didn't legally have to be in school. For us it was better to take him out and put him back in preschool. He got backyeared and started reception again in a new school when he was 5. He did so well in that school that he went back to his natural year group in sept last year.

Wishing you loads of luck for friday Go team wedgie xx

Update from Team Wedgie HQ

Not sure how I feel really.

The MEP part of the meeting went well and the new EP was brilliant at asking seemingly 'stupid' but leading questions and saying some really 'obvious' things and we were happy with his performance. Also the Inclusion Officer said that is propsed statment will go to committee on Monday and be resourced at another committee Wednesday and be with us by Friday. So that is positive.

However we have had no real acknowledgement from the Head that she may have over-reacted and she completely blanked offers of help to support them and him from SSSEN (not sure if everyone has them, LA funded teachers, they tend to do work with SEN children who are behind academically but can also help with behaviour support). No news either about where he will be going after the 6th day of his exclusion as schools in their cluster have said 'no' and they only contacted my school on Friday afternoon. No news on whether a permanent exclusion is still being considered.

Head also brought up our 'refusal' to acknowledge that DS has done anything wrong and our 'continued denial' of what he has done. Which boils down to us having a different opinion of what DS had in his hand when he hit her in September - although we never doubted that he walloped her and he said he did, and his denials of wrong doing when confronted by her or teachers at school. I got a bit stroppy at this (and DH got angry) and said in a loud voice that whilst we disagreed on what DS had hit her with we did not deny he had hit her and for all other incidents he had 'owned up' at home, which he ALWAYS does, and he had been dealt with accordingly. We had never denied any incident and I also implied she was projecting his denials onto us. Behaviour support, SSSEN and the Ed Psych all supported us by saying that of course DS would deny at school as he did not feel secure there and it is a typical AS trait. Not sure if it got through her
stupid head though.....

The lady from Parent Partnership did say afterwards that if they were going to press ahead with a permanent exclusion thenshe felt we had a strong case for disability discrimination. So that made me feel a bit more reassured.

Just got to try and stop DS doing anything self destructive now as he is still hating himself and wanting to die he just wants to be a good boy and back at school

Well the answers from the LA sound quite positive Shame the HT is still so anti but at least the rest of the others seem to be listening. Fingers crossed that the statement will be a good one. Hope ds is ok today xx

Well it's just all gone horribly wrong.

Went to pick DD up from school today and she trotted out with a letter that her teacher had told her was 'important'. It was a letter telling us that DS has been permanently excluded as from tomorrow Can't believe they just gave it to her to give me surely not right??

How can they be so unkind to DS? He won't even get to say goodbye to his friends I did say last week to that witch the head that they could at least give him some dignity and help his self esteem by waiting for the statement and giving him a managed move and she can't even be bothered to give him that.

Have contacted all his professionals and am about to write a letter to the Governors to appeal to them - not that I want him to go back there but to get recognition of the fact they have discriminated against him. I know it will probably go to SENDIST but am prepared for a fight.

My Mum had offered to pay for legal representation - do you think we'll need it? Any recommendations? We live in Derbyshire/South Yorkshire/Notts area.

Wedgiesmum - I'm just so and for you. I can't believe they informed you by sending a letter out with your DC, and not face to face!

Sorry Wedgiesmum, this is awful. Can't help but bumping for you!!

Some schools don't get that 'INCLUSION' isn't just about having children with wheelchairs in the prospectuses or having children with autism in the building. They fail to grasp the point that 'INCLUSION' means actually including children even when they're difficult. It's not just a concept for the nice times.

Can you involve the LEA? I would write to or actually ring the highest person in your area tomorrow, plus ask the school to ask the SEN governor to ring you. That might work.

So so sorry.

Yes - a disability discrimination claim has to happen, to validate you and your boy. Most of them (as you will have seen from the links I gave you above) end up directing the school to write a letter of apology to the child concerned. That would hopefully eventually help your son to know it was not his fault.

OMG! WM
I've missed all this.
So sorry to hear about it.
Thinking of you and sending you and ds and dd and dh lots of hugs.

If there's anything we can do, please let me know.

Oh, and silly clot that I am I've managed to lose my phone, so don't text me. Do you have my home phone number? Please call if you want to chat.