"we're all on the spectrum" - what do you think?

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

I've never agreed with the above statement.

For someone like DS1 his way of thinking (without language), his way of processing (he probably cannot process speech to any great extent, he sees things differently- without depth and using a lot of peripheral vision), the way he remembers (with a limited sense of time, and by association) is so wildly different from ours that it truly is a different planet.

I also think that if you think we've all got a bit of autism, then there's an idea that you can push someone from the spectrum into 'normal'. That 'normal' is a obtainable and wished for goal. I've observed that many who are high functioning don't want to be NT, there is a developing autism culture and they want to be part of that, and have that culture respected alone, not as being a second class version of normal. They don't see themselves as almost NT, they see themselves as different.

Would be interested in others views on this. It's something I hear quite a bit and I wonder whether I'm just not seeing it from a high functioning perspective. Or am I over analysing and is it just a way of those of us who are NT showing some respect for autism in a kind of 'oh they're human too' type way And if so should it be encouraged?

A philosophical question for a Friday morning. But an interesting one I think. I have my mind open and ready to be changed.

it's clearly processing with ds3 as well, it's ntriguing (if sad) to watch him in the carnivals- he's on there 'dancing' (I say dancing, he does one move on repeat but taht's OK) and then someone will wave or say hi and he freezes, for a good few minutes... someone actually told me I was being cruel putting him on but when we didn't for one he sobbed. It's like when a pc freezes because there's no virtual memory left, iykwim.

ds1's eye contact is very good too. When he wants it to be- he uses it timed to perfection to tease. Which actually isn't very autistic if you look at the literature, but that's because the literature looks at the wrong stuff

INterested in your bit about 2 dimension pics magso. DS1is fine with that but has no concept of scale, so he tried to climb Playmobile ladders and - yes- he did wee in the the dolls house toilet

Oh Ds struggles with scale he will try to pour a litre of milk into his cup and doesn't stop!! He has tried to put on doll clothes although now he would laugh! Just as well we dont have a playmobil loo!
Ds struggles with pictograms but understood photographs by about age 4.
Ds cannot read (he is 9) but knows most letters ( with some confusion on like shaped but differently orientated letters) by their phonetic names. Today he spelt out h-a-r-y phonetically (he missed a letter r out) and concluded ( even with an adult running together as har-ry)it must say scooby doo! I wonder if he will ever 'get' reading! That is sad too. I suppose that is weak central coherance?
I can see I am going to have to to read up on neuro anatomy so I can understand Ds better!

oh we've had the doll clothes too. Never any problems with pictures though.

You should do the reading program we're doing with ds1 (would probably work quite well for you - ds1 is not a star pupil! )

what is it with the scale? I just don't 'get' it? It always makes me laugh though. Even the wee in the dolls house toilet.

Yes JJ,I have followed your reading progress with interest! I'm sure ds has a little brilliance in there somewhere!He comes out with extraordinary observations sometimes.

If your ds has quite good language you should just buy her book. She really is a reading expert. We need the full program because of ds1's lack of language but her book (for NT kids) is interesting as well.

Ds has very delayed language (1st centile) but he is communicating verbally and non verbally quite well now. Didnt know there was a book. Thanks!!
I believe in plasticity of the young brain so my hope is always that things can change - ie extra connections can happen. Ds is still making strides. (ok ds is 9 so plasticity will be fading now).
Ds has been learning to ride. At first it looked rather over optomistic - but now he is getting the balance and remembering the reins and on occasion - thinking! He enjoys it. He is not intimidated by the enormous horse (maybe his lack of scale!) He likes rollercoaster rides - which unfortunatly I don't!

I've added the book to the bottom of the side menu (on the right, scroll right down. Written with NT/dyslexic kids in mind but useful none the less.

I think plasticity etc goes out the window with developmental issues. I have come across enough children who learned to talk aged 13 (even from nothing to fluent conversationalists) to assume the usual rule book is thrown out the window.
Thank goodness!

Thanks JJ have ordered it and a few others whilst there.
Yes - never say never with plasticity and later development!I suppose each brain to its own path!!
Thinking back to are all on the spectrum. Perhaps I see the spectrum more like a range of mountains. Nts have their feet on the valley floor!!

Mountain range is good I think!

I was terribly depressed when ds1 turned 5- I thought that was it - abandon hope all ye who enter here. But then I found that was all wrong.

"Mountain range" is excellent. I've always said that life for me is like trying to edge up a mountain, needing three points of contact (handholds, footholds) before I know it's safe to move another foot or hand. NTs seem to be more like mountain goats, able to nip up and down the slopes in a nimble and sure-footed way, able to calculate distances and avoid rockfalls and avalanches, whereas I just get buried under the snow or dropped down a crevice if something unexpected happens. Others might know what the mountain is like, but their whole way of encountering it seems to be different?

Jimjam,

You are very patient with us "little one" parents. It must be hard to be so restrained sometimes.

Sorry, haven't quite kept up with this..... I think it is very true that many ASD behaviours/traits are the same as those for people not on the spectrum BUT those with ASD (certainly my DS) do those "normal" things excessively, repetitively, on their own terms. My DS has very good eye contact too, although he had none when he was 2 and we didn't teach him. He will also do things excessively and then they reduce to a more "normal" level. So I have got sick of people saying "oh normal kids do X or Y" when the point is "yes, but do they do it for 2 years and over and over?". So looking at small behaviours, traits or perspectives does not give a picture the same as looking at someone on the spectrum. I think there is a clear divide between being on or not on the spectrum, however tricky it can be to be clear unless you spend a lot of time with someone or compare notes with others. My DS and my sister with AS can have some very "normal" behaviours, experiences and reactions but they are both soooo inconsistent! Interestingly, out of 3 of us my sister with AS is very clever, can't spell, has awful handwriting, was useless at sports, quite good a music but can't sing in tune.....

My handwriting was appalling as well. It still is bad, but much better.
And you're right about the excessive thing. Ds1 will count the house numbers on our street, having to go into the front yards of said houses and shout the number out, almost every time we walk up at least one way and he has done that since he was 2. He will say the exact same phrases over and over for something. He thrives on repetition, on routine, not just in what he says but in his behaviours as well.
As for myself, well, I have, since the age of 13 only ever drawn a very limited number of things when doodling. These are a shaded box, a vase, a profile, a tent and a house, all drawn in the same way as well since I was 13. I will read books over and over, doesn't matter to me that I know exactly what happens in them for me there is a comfort in the familiarity. Obviously the examples I'm citing aren't the only ones that Ds1 and I do, but they do hopefully explain in some ways.

Clever, but only in some things. Handwriting awful. Useless at sport. Good at music, Can't sing in tune. Tend to draw the same things over and over again....yup, that'd be me too. And have the same obsessions for 30+ years without Ever Once Getting Bored.