"we're all on the spectrum" - what do you think?

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

I've never agreed with the above statement.

For someone like DS1 his way of thinking (without language), his way of processing (he probably cannot process speech to any great extent, he sees things differently- without depth and using a lot of peripheral vision), the way he remembers (with a limited sense of time, and by association) is so wildly different from ours that it truly is a different planet.

I also think that if you think we've all got a bit of autism, then there's an idea that you can push someone from the spectrum into 'normal'. That 'normal' is a obtainable and wished for goal. I've observed that many who are high functioning don't want to be NT, there is a developing autism culture and they want to be part of that, and have that culture respected alone, not as being a second class version of normal. They don't see themselves as almost NT, they see themselves as different.

Would be interested in others views on this. It's something I hear quite a bit and I wonder whether I'm just not seeing it from a high functioning perspective. Or am I over analysing and is it just a way of those of us who are NT showing some respect for autism in a kind of 'oh they're human too' type way And if so should it be encouraged?

A philosophical question for a Friday morning. But an interesting one I think. I have my mind open and ready to be changed.

i don't know enough to make any valid comments

but i spend a lot of time thinking about what normal is

not in relation to autism but brains in general

in fact i spend far more time thinking than most people do im sure

i am pretty sure i dont think in the way that normal people do

i dont always behave like normal people either

i spend a lot of time copying what i think is normal behaviour but and this is rather hard to explain and not something i ever talk about it can be a bit paralysing because it involves doubloe thinking

it is one reason why it is easier to relate to people on a forum than in real life i think

and also why it is easier to spend a lot of time on your own

and also listening to music because it occupies some of the thinking space in your mind which otherwise gets too busy

sorry this is quite uncopnnected with the thread i just wanted to write it down

as you were no one will have a clue what i am talking about

zippi are you okay? Saw another thread of yours briefly yesterday.

Sort of sideways but a number of autistic people talk about copying behaviour. At an extreme end Lucy Blackman (severely autistic non verbal) would get stuck behind someone walking down the street because she'd use them to model where she had to be going iyswim, then she couldn't break away.

I suspect I know what you're talking about though. If I'm in a group of totally NT parents then I have to turn on fake me. It should be easy because I have two NT children, but I always feel like I've had to let go of a bit of me and pretend ds1 doesn't exist, because if I tried to say anything about him no-one would understand what I meant, so I feel like I'm a bit of an observer watching me pretending to be part of a normal family.

when my DD was being assessed for ASD, we looked at the tick sheet provided by the paediatritian and could see some of the behaviours in ourselves and families.

my exh for instance, has never done eye contact, our ds has some obsessive behaviour. this lead me to believe that there was no such thing as a 'normal person', we all have our funny little ways.

We were told at CAMHs that DD had Aspergers and Dyspraxia, and they needed to see her in her school setting to see which one was more doninant. I think it was because DD interacted well with the teacher that day that they then said her problems were more dyspraxic and then withdrew the offers of help they had promised they'd give her. this lead me to believe its 'how many boxes you tick' it no longer mattered that she
couldn't read peoples faces/emotions, had sensory problems, doesn't initiate conversation, language problems, etc, it was my view that she just didn't tick enough boxes.

So I have said in the past that we're all on the autistic spectrum, and by it I mean that there is no such thing as a normal person, and that we all have our quirky little ways, and its just a case of how many of them you have

I have never meant to offend any one with my views,

jimjams

i am not feeling brilliant at the moment

i have kind of half slipped into a parallel dimension

im not sure if i have brought it on myself or it has just happened

i tend to blame myself but im not sure whether thats right

i am in communication with first bf and it is sort of complusive but contributing to doing my head in or it is just coincidence that i am communicating with him and i feel i strange

im not sure it is chicken and egg

i am having magical thinking

Zippi

I dont know you but you sound a bit lost at the moment and I just wanted to send you a virtual hug, hope you dont mind

thanks

i am probably

dustbin that's interesting about the Aspergers & dyspraxia.

I'm dyspraxic and dyslexic but I'm not clumsy and I can spell. Not what some might consider 'typical'. Go figure. But maybe how something manifests is not necessarily a good indicator of the nature of the condition, iyswim. Not that I'm likening specific learning difficulties to autism, but some traits could be common in both, which might blur the diagnosis? eg I'm over and undersensitive to heat/pain/brightness/noise - I believe these traits are commonplace in ASD (someone please tell me asap if I'm full of bolleaux) and it sounds as if they were a bit keen to tick the dyspraxia boxes first, when perhaps they need two ticks iyswim. Can you ask for another assessment? You're the best judge of your dd.

I'm finding this thread v interesting. I had no idea that 'we're all on the spectrum' was offensive to some though I can kind of see what is meant by it - maybe it's a question of interpreting the term? I think I will avoid using it, not that I was in the habit of walking around muttering it to begin with. I tend to walk around muttering about what the feff I'm supposed to be doing next and where's my feffing list etc.

Zippi - you do sound a bit lost. I can identify with a lot of your first post. Perhaps all the 'normal' people are thinking the same as you.

I am not offended in the slightest if some people think that 'we're all on the spectrum'! However, I do disagree with this premise.

I think that we are all on a human spectrum which is, by default, NT (and by this term, I mean NT humans have a particular way of perceiving and interacting with the world). Within this human spectrum, there is a group of individuals who are neuro-autistic (NA?). There is also a group of individuals who are neuro-Tourette, others who are neuro-bi-polar and so on. Each group interacts with the world in their own particular way.

I don't think a person can be a little bit autistic any more than they can be a little bit NT. But this is just my opinion.

I agree with Manny. It doesn't offend me. I just don't think it's right. I look at how my son processes the world and it is totally different from me. I think in language, and remember life events in a linear fashion. He doesn't. I couldn't have a little bit of his processing or way of being. It's just not possible.

jimjams I think I get where you're coming from now

Thank you!

I don't agree with the idea, but I do think a lot more people (myself included) have strong autistic traits without it ever being a massive hindrance to life than would ever receive or even need any sort of diagnosis.

Some people are so damned neurotypical, though ;)

Sorry, I haven't read all of this thread and I'm sure I should have. I have a sister who has AS and is as hf as you can get...... except she's useless at independence, organsing anything, relationships with anyone, managing money etc etc. Although very close to "normal" she is very obviously NOT! She is NOT part of the clique who see themselves as different"" and not "disabled" and who feel that having AS/ASD is not something to be pitied etc so that group still only includes probably a small number of the type of people they believe they are iyswim. I don't like the whole "curing" and "defeating" culture and think we must accept people with ASD/AS for who they are but we must also help them in every way possible to reach their potential, be happy and live fulfilled lives - much easier said than done, where is the line between intervention and interference? My DS draws that line himself really I suppose. I also don't understand why the so-called "militant aspies" do not want to be classified as "disabled" and then spend a lot of time fighting to get DLA. I don't begrudge it them at all, I think they need and deserve it but you can't have it all ways can you?

We spent 25 years or so of my sister's life thinking she was "difficult" "stroppy" "had an attitude problem".

Then we found out about Aspergers and it all just slotted into place. She has never really spoken about how she feels about us now realising what it is, or how she feels about it, but then she wouldn't would she? We tend to just refer to them as "Flamesis-isms".

Flamechick is so far pretty much following my sister's path, with slightly less strop (but I don't know how much of that is just from my memory as I would have only been 2 when she was this age, so wouldn't remember strop until older).

I have little things that upset me w/r change, but I see them as being normal anxieties, and not autistic style iyswim.

NT people do similar things/have similar feelings towards things as those on the spectrum, but they are NOT the same in the same way that my kitten pounces on a toy rabbit in the same way a tiger cub pounces, but they are really NOT the same thing!

Flamesparrow, we had almost exactly the same experience with my sister and when we understood AS (because of DS's ASD) it slotted into place. Like your sister my sister has never really spoken about it, she has mentioned it very briefly now and then, but she just functions in her own strange way. The problem is, that as she gets older, she gets stranger and stranger and also gets depressed sometimes although she cannot understand why as she doesn't really understand anything about herself. At least with our children we are better informed, more active, more aware etc. Me and my other sister gave up years ago worrying that she was upset with us or jealous of what good friends we are.... we realised that she doesn't care about it at all most of the time, just when she wants something. We have also learned not to blame her as she is who she is, but we can't dance attendance or use up our energies and emotions on someone to whom it means very little. We do care about her and try to help her but mostly she ploughs her own furrow.

"Ploughing my own furrow" is one reason why I didn't realise I was on the spectrum for years and one reason I won't claim DLA for myself.

I actually DO think that we all have traits that could be called autistic. I have explained my feelings by saying it is like all of humanity is standing on a long bit of string. Most people are standing in a group, or close together, but basically all bunched up in one section. Some are dotted here there and everywhere but people with autism are (in rl I'd be gesturing!!) here.

To me, autism is when those traits that are in all of us, are in you so strongly, that they affect the way you function day to day.

I see my childrens' behaviours and I can relate to them SO much, I am just the same, the only difference is that I can integrate those behaviours and still 'get on' day to day - I understand that I must control the way I act because society has rules and expectations that I am obliged to follow. (although it has in the past been suggested I am on the spectrum, and sometimes I think so too, but other times I don't. I just think I'm more aware of those behaviours of mine that are considered 'autistic', because I am so tuned into my kids, if that makes sense.) I also see traits in my sister, my mum, my husband, my niece - which has led me to think - well, think what I put above!

I just GET my kids so much - i know how they feel when people are in their faces, because I feel it too - I want to scream and wave my hands about and yell BACK OFF BACK OFF!! I am obsessive, i like things to be in lines, and in the 'right' order, I HATE it when things don't go as they 'should', I don't like eye contact, i DO it, of course, but i feel uncomfortable, although nobody would ever know. I have meltdowns - only in my head. In my head I am screaming, but I know I can't scream and bite, but trust me, in my HEAD, I am kicking and biting!!!!! - I could go on all night

I just don't see anything different in how my kids behave, they just do it MORE and are less able to do other stuff because of how focused they are on it, iyswim.

I don't think its traits though. DS1 doesn't have traits of anything. He's just been unable to learn language, therefore can't think in language therefore experiences the world totally differently.

I mean I can have times when it's too noisy and too many people are talking at once I want them all to go away, but I don't think that's the same as ds1 who can't process speech sounds at all, or can't process them with vision, or whatever it is that he does (I have no idea but I think it's different from anything I've ever experienced).

He smells to make sense of his world, it's very very important to him, he uses it a lot (to place people and objects I think). I wouldn't begin to know how to use smell.

There's probably more about you than you may realise though Hecate. With me, it's a whole load of things like I won't think of other people, not to be rude or uncaring just that unless they are clear about something I won't pick things up or consider them, with the exception of my children. I have my own thoughts and obsessions and very little else enters int things That's why the internet is good as it allows me to find things out and people are more direct when posting. I can also read other posts and see how things are.
And because I focus on a very small section of things, because my routines are rituals take up a substantial part of me, I don't think about my own body and what that needs. My self help skills have improved a lot since having the lads, because I made myself get into a daily care routine with them in terms of cleaning and eating etc. But because I find it very difficult to connect the idea of me with actually being me, if that makes sense (every so often I realise that I am my own person and it freaks me out) I don't think that I need to look after myself, so things like eating and drinking and cleaning are rather haphazard.
I don't really think about society, but do care that I don't hurt people's feelings so try hard to be polite at least. There are a lot of things I just can't do though, no matter how hard I try.

I think, jimjams, (how the feck are you btw, not 'spoken' to you for yonks ) that our worlds are so very far apart. I do fall into the trap of seeing autism as MY experience of autism - my children - iyswim. I have worked so hard to understand my children and my world and make it make sense to me (starting with the Big One - WHY) I think, if this makes any sense to you, that I don't understand your autism.

I'm a little bit worried that you are not going to get what I mean by that, and think I'm being funny in some way, which I'm not, I'm just trying to articulate our different realities. That's not the right word either.

AAARRRGGGHHHH

I'm going to post and hope that you know what I mean!!!!!!!!!

Ooh slight off topic Hecate - me n Psycho left you the other day discussing that your boys seemed perfectly normal to us and then we were about what that meant in relation to us and the NT world They were fab

Yes yes that does make sense. It was why I was interested in this thread really and whether people with experience of HFA/AS felt the same as me, or whether they felt that they were a continuation of NT.

oh yes bullet - if you knew how often i say things like "I don't care", just because I don't care!! what topic someone is on about although my husband has got through to me that you are NOT allowed to be that honest!!!

I had a 'moment' when I met flame and psycho, actually. P was telling us something VERY serious and important and I was listening and then I saw a rabbit in the garden and I interrupted her REALLY serious sentence with the words "OH LOOK, A RABBIT" After they'd gone I got told off for that.

I always leave going to the loo until the last minute, because I forget! I find myself dribbling or 'protruding' as I try to get upstairs I see this in the boys as well!!! Expect they sometimes actually GO in their pants!!!

I NEVER remember faces, or names. I can have a conversation with someone and then not recognise them the next day!

I'd known my kids LSA for a year when I saw her in the street and I didn't recognise her because she was somewhere I didn't expect her.

And

I can't recognise my kids in group photos right away and I have trouble at the school gate until they come towards me.

But I think everyone is like this, to a greater or lesser extent - everyone has bits like this (like my turning the loo roll so it's under not over, in other people's houses! )