hfa/speech disorder and nursery questions

[RaggedRobin]

my first thread - at last i've stopped hijacking others' threads.

ds had his second salt assessment today. she says we are looking at either hfa or speech disorder, but that it is too early to say yet. she says he displays traits of both, which i'd come to terms with from many discussions here with all you helpful mums.

so everything was much as i'd expected - however, i was a bit surprised when she mentioned a special needs nursery. i had anticipated that ds would go to the local ms nursery with support. i have some knowledge of the particular sn nursery that she suggested and i'm not very impressed with it. i wanted to ask how your dcs coped with nursery and whether you think that my hopes for ms are realistic?

ds is due to start nursery in january.

DS was very placid, so was I feel somewhat neglected and babied at his private ms nursery. They didn't bother getting any support for him though. He absolutely thrived once we moved him to the school nursery (school is in v. deprived area, very used to kids with language problems, and has v good staff kid ratios). Still without any official support . I would have thought if SN placement was suggested a language nursery would have been more the thing (about 15 cities have them I think). Speak to mainstream nurseries, lay it on with a trowel as to your DS's language problems, and see how the nursery head/senco respond. Oh and quiz them as to previous experience with kids with language problems.

I was asked if I wanted a place at an SN nursery for ds2 (AS). It was a little odd as we'd had no such offer for his older brother (HFA) who had needed far more support at that age.

Both of mine went to a ms pre-school. Ds1 was non-verbal when he started there and had a lot of sensory and motor skill problems. He really enjoyed it there and made a lot of progress.

Ds2 already had some language skills when he started but his language development was disordered. He loved going there for the first 18mths or so but his behaviour deteriorated towards the end.

I think the two things that helped most were having pre-school staff who were willing to do whatever it took to help both boys, and an excellent team who were able to give the staff the support and advice they needed. The SENCO really needs to know what they are doing, rather than just leaving the pre-school staff to get on with it.

I would definitely go and visit a few places before making your mind up either way.

thanks tc - the ms nursery i had chosen has a good ratio, but lea are planning to cut the headteacher and teacher and replace them with a nursery nurse by aug 2009 - there's progress for you!

my ds is not at all placid, so i think they'd find it impossible to neglect him!

not sure if scotland has language nurseries, but i shall try to find out,

thanks coppertop - this sounds like a positive experience. again i'm not sure what the scottish equivalent of a senco would be (even though i work in sen ) but i'll find out.

Ds(4) has managed fine at ms nursery with extra 1-1 support. It was never mentioned to me or occured to me that he would go to special nursery. We are awaiting dx but it's very likely HFA.

yes, i was completely taken aback. i've just looked at the hmi report for the sn nursery that was suggested and it got a very poor report, so i certainly won't be considering it. it is actually a ms nursery with 12 sn placements, but they are not specifically language related, so i don't see any benefit.

salt was very supportive about deferring ds's entry to school - he would be due to go at 4.8, so that was a relief.

Ragged,

I haven't gone back over your other posts, but I tend to think of your little one as being similar to mine who is very happy in mainstream nursery.
As total says, it would be one thing if they were offering a place in a specialist language nursery.....

When will he go to school now - 5.8? Are you England or Scotland - can't remember.

How's he doing nowadays anyway?

I would have a frank discussion with your slt. Mention your feelings on the sn nursery and ask her why she feels it would be better for your dc than the one you like.

Also, if you can, talk with the ms nursery and ask them about how they would be able to support your ds.

How would you feel about him going to ms if he does not have extra support? Are you thinking of a statement? and would this be in place before he starts?

thanks lingle. sounds like most people are happy with ms nurseries, which gives me confidence!

we're in scotland and yes, ds will then be 5.8 before he starts primary school.

way before we realised there was any kind of communication problem, i'd always thought about the possibility of deferring (i think it was one of the first things i thought about when i realised he was going to be born in december!)

i just think anything below 5 seems very early to start school. since his difficulties have been picked up, i've become more determined that he would defer.

he's made LOADS of progress. emerging sentences, some conversational turn taking, understands basic instructions. communication still stilted though and sentence structures are disordered ("laughing the boy", etc).

the salt identified his tendency to stick to his own agenda as being the key area to work on, and this makes sense. she is going to send me out some games to play with him. we tried a simple one tonight with his toy animals ("who says moo?", etc) but he just kicked them over - "no moo!"

he absolutely knows the answers, but if it's not his game, he's not playing!

Welcome

DS3 attended a MS Nursery that was within the school (a wonderful part of the ed system here, none of that at home no siree.... if you're wondering I moved 60 miles from Somerset to wales LOL)

It as great for him, generally I'd prefer him n a sn placement (he's yr1 now) but that year worked so well and gave us a good idea of how he functions with nt kids which is good- start high then tailor to your child is my way of doing it.

He does now have a statement and lots of salt thogh

Oh- ds3 a July baby (so youn gest in his class) and we deferred for a term to allow the others to settle (MS with 16 hrs 1-1), then sent him pt, ft for last term. I think we made a good call.

desperate housewife too: i don't think the salt knows the sen nursery very well. when i made unimpressed noises about it, she said she had never been.

i AM concerned that he might start nursery with nothing in place. i am tempted to ask nursery for a meeting before christmas to discuss ds's needs, but was not sure if this would seem ott.

did other people have extra support in place before starting, or did you have to "wait and see"?

i got the feeling that salt was saying wait and see how he gets on at ms and then change to sen if he's not coping, but didn't really talk about what extra support might be available to make SURE that he's cope in ms.

peachy - that's an interesting idea to bear in mind, staggering a school start. that's something to think about when he moves onto primary.

again, we don't have statements here - we have co-ordinated support plans (just replaced records of need, which were statement equivalent.) i think he'd be entitled to a csp because he has salt input, but not sure when we should start the process. will definitely ask salt at the next appointment.

i'm ashamed that i don't already know all this, but as i work in secondary schools, it tends to be in place by the time kids reach us.

also, i asked salt if i should be thinking about a dev paed appointment, but again she seemed to favour the wait and see appraoch. what do people think?

why would you know all this?

ask someone more independent than a salt- I swear our salt / lea staff get commission per family thet persuade not to statement (or csp in your case)

As hfa has been metioned, try the nas education line? good place for general info etc.

It takes time to learn it all; with ds1 I was completeky lost (AS / HFA). with ds3 /I am somewhat more savvy (has been dx'd asd a few times but then Paed changes mind- hoping for answer next month although tbh we know its asd, as his language develops- nn verbal at 3- its more obvious) but still have lots to learn

Oh go for the Paed- get in the system. We always went via gp, far easier.

A dev paed might be able to give you a more confident answer to the "is it HFA or not" question. How old is he again (the child, not the doctor!)? Hmm, if doc. says it's not HFA, will you lose help? I think that's what you need to know...what is a diagnosis going to do for you....

I personally wouldn't seek a paed right now because the "get some help then stick to cheerful denial" approach seems to work best for me. But you'll have your own way of dealing with the psychological loop-the-loops.

I suspect a Paed will say much as they did to us- no dx until older but on their books, regular checks (6 monthly) andb referrals to OT etc, plus help with dla / education

your post made me feel that it might not be ott to be looking to have a meeting before christmas, tclanger. they might think i'm an annoying mum, but at least i won't regret it if he does have some problems settling, and the support is already in place.

was your son verbal/non verbal when he started? i'm wondering how useful visual aids would be with my ds.

anyway i'm going to throw in the towel for tonight; dd has woken 4 times and ds woken twice since i started this thread!

both have colds, dd is teething and ds has a broken arm

this should be an interesting night! who needs sleep? i have too much to think about. thanks for all your advice.

Definitely get on list to see paed now - but as Peachy says you may end up with a "we can't tell yet answer". Still I don't see that a "we can't tell yet" answer would put you in a worse position than being pre-DX - as in both instances presumably you've got a kid with traits but no DX. Also I would look at getting on ed psych list too as that will hopefully help with getting support in nursery.

Hope you've managed to get a bit of sleep last night.

DD started a small private school when she was three (we're in France and maternelle is a bit more like UK nursery. Compulsory school / literacy etc. doesn't start until 6). She had no support and doesn't speak French. She LOVED it. Made huge progress just in terms of being with other kids, staying in the classroom, doing what an adult other than an immediate relative asked her to do. She changed schools this year because we moved house and is now in local M/S without support (paperwork takes a LONG time here!) but has a good teacher who takes time to sit down with her and help her do the exercises. I think the local school helps because they are used to have "different" kids there and they weren't completely thrown by DD's language problems. However, the thing that has really made the difference for us is definitely a good teacher, and that's just luck!

The other advantage of going to Paed now is that ours had a waiting list around a year. Best to get on there early- you can always take yourself off agian if needed