hfa/speech disorder and nursery questions

[RaggedRobin]

my first thread - at last i've stopped hijacking others' threads.

ds had his second salt assessment today. she says we are looking at either hfa or speech disorder, but that it is too early to say yet. she says he displays traits of both, which i'd come to terms with from many discussions here with all you helpful mums.

so everything was much as i'd expected - however, i was a bit surprised when she mentioned a special needs nursery. i had anticipated that ds would go to the local ms nursery with support. i have some knowledge of the particular sn nursery that she suggested and i'm not very impressed with it. i wanted to ask how your dcs coped with nursery and whether you think that my hopes for ms are realistic?

ds is due to start nursery in january.

yes I'm not a great fan of wait and see - it's one thing if a paed has said it's not possible to reliably DX a young child - but another altogether encouraging you to stay off the waiting lists etc. Our wait for DS to see the paed was 13 months.

Brioche - yes, it's amazing the difference that the right environment can make - when we've bumped into his old private nursery staff out and about he's refused to speak to them at all!

Exactly tc- if ds3 doesn't get an answeer the next list is 18 months minimum and how long have we been in th sytem now? over 2 years

get on those lists and book yer place!

lol TClang. The staff I have bumped into always take great pains to be very friendly to me, it's most odd.

It's sad to hear how badly you were let down by the preschool staff Tclanger . I'm glad things are better now.

Ragged, out of all of us "language delay regulars", I'm probably the one who is the most in favour of the "wait and see" approach. But even I completely agree that it would be a great idea to ask for a meeting with nursery before Christmas (at both the possible choices?). You'll find out so much about attitude. Plus, you could get the head to steer the staff before those personnel changes that are worrying you. In fact, you could (i)have the meeting and agree a plan then (ii) write a letter confirming what has been agreed. This would make it harder for them to withdraw the help after the staff changes that they are proposing.

I am completely shocked by the paed. waiting lists and now think you should at least find out what the waiting list is like in your area.

Am in a hurry so hope I haven't confused the facts. good luck

my ds is 3.6 was dx with HFA at 3 and goes to ms pre school and all honesty have found it a bbattle to make sure he is getting the appropite help

he is so content and just goes off to do his own thin g and i think the other children crying for there mums etc was getting the attention

he has just been awarded specialist teacher to go in once every 3 weeks and has only just been awarded SALT been on li9st for yr ansd half was continuous we;ll wait 6 mths so all i can say is come down a bit stronger and ask for things to be done as it was a waiting game and i believe so much more could of been done

my salt set targets within pre school but again its wether they were really being met as i would get the passing comments of his been acting odd etc not socialising well , he has HFA so thats what it is

i would of if i had choice sent him somewhere i knew every day his needs were being met but didnt have that choice he would have had more input for his needs where at ms if busy they are left to do there own thing such as playing with each other or doing activities and my ds would struggle with this

senco teacher is good but still being part of ms if staff shortage etc dont have that extra to give him one to one luckily he is coming along great and they are good with him but i still would have preffered him to be where i knew he would have constant attention and help as i know he would have come along quicker

being so young they need this as they can learn all that needs to be learnt in socialising but only if shown and given continuous help

my ds speech is coming along and have noticed since his speech has come along his willingness to socialise has improved although still needs help to socialise he wants to now and want to share his attention before he was very much into what he wanted to do only didnt really acknowledge the other children

I think you have to fight for the help regardless though, tbh

I'd lioke ds3 in Sn unit for lots of reasons but the LEA remit is only this current year so my concerns abut safety etc are irrlevant to them.

And once you're in the system its ahrd to change it- th review form I have says

Are you happy we are doing what the statemnt says

Does he still need a statement

and thats it- no are you happy with the statement? Waht do we need to focus on in this coming year?

Of course I will do my usual- staple a letter detailing MY pov to it LOL. Oh the LEa adore me

Would he get more slt input in the sn nursery?

When I worked in sn nurseries (as slt) tey got infinitley more slt time than any mainstream nursery and all the staff:child ratio was such that there was time for them to do onene work on targets set by the visiting professionals.

I think a meeting with the nurseries is a good idea.

I assume, in order for him to have support in the ms nursery, he would need a multi-professional assessment first? In which case, I would request a referral to Community Paed and Ed Psych. It can only save time in the ong run.

Dd2, possible ASD or language disorder, 2.7, goes to our local opitunity group/sn nursery, she goes for 2 mornings a week and gets 1 on 1 all morning. At the moment she is using PECS (at home and nursery), i am very pleased with how well she has done in the 5 weeks she has been there. I cried when they sugested her going to a sn nursery but sending her is the best thing i have done for her.
If all goes well she will be going to MS along side the SN after christmas, she will have a helper (1 on 1) at MS.

We were recomended by SALT to the SN nursery. She now see's a on-site SALT every monday instead of once a month with NHS so to me its well worth her being there.

Good luck.

we get weekly salt in ms. dont kniow what we'd get at sn- less i think

We got the SALT at 4.5, Nursery year he wasn't even on the lists- he regressed at about 3 but to my eternal shame and self disgust (I burst into tears at Paeds about this) dh and I were so wrapped up in the aftermath of ds1's dx that we didn't really see what was happening and missed out n vital early help.

wow - amazing to come back to so much advice. sorry, not been ignoring you, i'm a nocturnal mnetter.

Total chaos: thanks for your good sleep wishes; they worked!
I hadn't thought about ed psychs, even though i've worked with the local one. Good idea to get in touch.

Desperate Housewife and Marne: i'm definitely not against SEN nurseries; if there was a good local one, i'd jump at the chance. As BriocheDoree says, a lot of it is down to good teaching and i'd rather ds started in the ms nursery where i know there is good teaching, than in the sen nursery where the inspection report highlights weaknesses in meeting children's individual needs (!) Although you are right, i think he would get more salt in the sen nursery. it's a tough choice!

Tclanger - that's a really strong argument against "wait amd see" - it's fine to wait and see if you presuppose that nursery is going to have a POSITIVE effect on your dc, but not if there is a NEGATIVE effect on their development.

I think i'll ask the gp about waiting lists.

lingle - this is a great idea to try to ensure continuity of support.

bubblagirl - great to hear your ds is beginning to share attention. this will be crucial for him in a learning environment.

peachy - it's shocking that you don't have more input with the statements. is this everyone's experience or are your lea particularly bad?
also, it's a shame that other professionals didn't pick up on problems your ds was having. it's entirely natural that you would have been focussed on ds1 following a dx. how sad that you were left feeling guilty.

all this advice is invaluable. i felt so well prepared going into the salt assessment, i'd have been an emotional wreck when the Autism Word cropped up in the discussion if i hadn't been able to work it all through on here.

now i have an action plan for the next few weeks! thanks again.

Hello Ragged, I sent my ds to a developmental play centre (sn nursery) at my SALT's recommendation, I think he was too young (2.6 yrs)

It was a lovely new building with very caring staff, but I never thought my ds was happy there, he started ms nursery, without support, but they got the ball rolling asap (first week I think).

My ds had SALT in place from the start, she came in once a week to be with him.. early years support teacher started seeing him once a week, now he has two early years support sessions in nursery. From the start they were trying to get my ds one to one support, but it took until the January after he started ms nursery in the August to get one to one support in place.

After being in nursery since August 07, he now has 4 sessions at nursery with one to one support.

I am in Scotland, my ds was really hard work to start with in nursery, but since he turned 4 he has become much more settled there (still hard work but making progress). Ds's nursery has no teacher staff, only about 12 children, with 2 nursery nurses and because it is part of the school there is an sn base for ds to go to sometimes.

I think you go with the nursery you feel is right, they should be able to get the help in place for your ds.

If the ms nursery is attached to the school your ds will go to, then he has a chance to get to know the school before starting P1, and they will get to know him and hopefully be able to meet his needs.

thanks aefondkiss, it's good to hear from someone else in scotland. did you have to do anything to encourage the nursery to get the ball rolling? did they involve the ed psych? and did your ds have a dx?

sorry for all the questions! oo one last one, is there a scottish equivalent of a senco?

no problem RaggedRobin... I think the level of support you get varies by authority.

Ds's SALT has been very helpful with involving other professionals, she encouraged us to see the consultant paediatrician, which took ages... but ds was almost completely unmanageable to start with at nurrsery and the staff really struggled to communicate with him, so they were in a hurry to get help!

It might be worth having a look at your local council's web site to see what they have, you could contact education services they might advise...

my ds hasn't got a dx yet (salt also mentioned hfa/language disorder, clinical psychologist has mentioned a future dx of AS), the Paed said "asd traits" and that is basically what we have to go on... but considering that he is under a multi-disciplinary team, so all the professionals are involved without me having to contact them individually.

It might be worth trying to get in touch with early years support services in your area, my ds early years support teacher has been fantastic, she helped me through the minefield of dla, which we were awarded middle rate this year without a dx.

Ed psych was not really much use imho... the one we have has observed ds very briefly a couple of times in nursery, but she is not very engaged.

I would make an appointment with your gp to raise concerns, get the ball rolling... you sound like you are dealing with it all better than me, when my ds was 2.6 and I first saw the salt and he started sn nursery I was a wreck and in denial about his issues... he is 4.6 now, we see the clinical psychologist now too, and I am slowly, very very slowly, coming to terms with it all.

On the positive side, my ds is making progress and his speech now compared to a year ago has really improved. Even 6 months can see vast improvement in speech and behaviour (not always I know), but I think being pro-active helps... don't wait for a dx (which is kind of what I have been doing). Think about when you send in the enrolment forms for the nursery, it might be a good opportunity to let nursery know about your ds... and maybe ask about taking him in before the summer holidays start just to see the nursery and let them meet him.

he's starting in january - the problem is i enrolled him at the nursery in

june, before he had been referred to the salt and before i had even realised there was a problem to be honest. so i'm kind of backtracking with the nursery now saying, well actually, yes he does have additional needs.

so i have a lot to do in the next couple of months.

i think i'm dealing with everything at the moment because we haven't started yet... he is just our ds at home and he is all we have ever known, being our first. i think i may find it more difficult when he can't be understood/ is expected to conform at nursery and begins to be marked out as being different to the other children. we'll see.

great to hear about your ds making progress. it's mumsnet really that helps makes sense of it all. if i didn't have all this information and advice from people with experience, i'm sure i would be in bits.

you still have loads of time RaggedRobin, even if you apply for 5 sessions it might be worth starting him max 3 days a week, and just being open with the nursery will help them be prepared.

good luck, it is tough dealing with it all and yes mumsnet is great for being supportive and opening my eyes to the sn world!

hi raggedrobin, on hols this week at parents so just having a quick look on here but will log on when home and reply properly about ds, despite my massive concerns, he is totally thriving in m/s preschool 5 mornings a week and they think he should be fine to start school at 4.0 despite having very limited speech at the moment...

wow! i'd like to hear more. i think nursery could be make or break for ds. if we can get some understanding and good strategies in place then i'm hoping, like your ds, he will thrive.

visual aides? pecs you can get them free to down load on widget.com i also make my own photographic ones and laminate them, a laminater is only £12.00 in woolworths

my ds has visual aids (pecs) plus they use a timer with him for transitions... I went on a pECS courses, 2 days but my ds had got beyond the stage where it was going to be useful, one thing I did learn was the backward step strategy.

It was a simple idea, maybe you do it already without thinking, but when I am getting ds to try to do things for himself I leave the last step undone to try and get him to do it, no verbal prompt, just the last step to getting his trousers on , pulling them up, which he does automatically... then you go back a step from that putting one leg in and so on until he is doing all the steps himself... it is a great way to achieve a wee bit of independence and learn new skills.

i started my first course in makaton yesterday it was great learnin g all the basics to teach my ds

its like what mr tumble does say and sign great and easy to learn to teach for our little opnes with communication problems saves on frustration

i done it at my local special needs group who have a creche as well for anyone who needs to use it while on the course 3 mornings for 25 pound

i now know most of the basics on level one so i have started to teach my ds as when he feels unwell or tired his speech regresses and it gets very frustrating for us both so this will help loads