Well we're going ahead with this reading/writing communication thing for non-verbal ds1........

[yurt1]

We're working with Marion Blank. I've been very impressed when talking to her. She has a program for teaching non-verbal autistic children to read, write and type with understanding.

Details on the programme here

I'm quite excited. I think ds1 is ready for it. We had to send video of ds1 working in order to assess whether he had enough compliance and attentional skills for the programme. The ABA table work has paid off- he does- (he wouldn't have had 2 years ago).

Sooooo a year of hard work (for all of us) starts here.....

here's video of non-verbal Carly Fleischmann typing I think she had acquired more language than ds1 - although of course it's hard to tell. The prorgamme we're doing works specifically on teaching language too.

wow sounds very exciting.

Good luck.

great stuff! best of luck!

Am printing this off Yurt as am very interested, thanks! I think reading is also a good way of feeding back into language - and so far I know that my DS is pronouncing cat properly (with a t on the end) as he has had us go through the spelling c-a-t so often. Good luck!

Good Luck! It sounds fascinating and it's good that she assessed him first to check he was ready. We have not tried letters or reading in anyway but one weird thing that happened this morning is that DS1 pointed at the digital number display on the radio and said 'clock'. He is obsessed with clocks ( the old fashioned kind with a dial) but I'm not sure how he knew what the numbers were [puzzled]

gosh that's clever isn't it cyber.

Yep- she was pretty insistent that without adequate compliance it's frustrating for everyone.

I just watched the video, it is truly amazing. If it's okay I'd like to send the information to my friend who has a child with autism.

AFAIK Marion Blank wasn't involved with Carly (don't want to misrepresent!).She lives in Canada.

If your friend's child is non-verbal can I recommend Lucy Blackman's book "Lucy's Story: Autism and other adventures". She's an adult now, who communicates via typing and it completely changed my view about everything to do with ds1 when I read it (he seems very like her in lots of ways- lots of the exact same behaviours at the same ages).

It's probably taken us the last 4 years to get to a stage where DS1 is ready to start to try this - and the Light on Literacy programme looks ideal for him as it takes on board children being non-verbal and what that means and how it adjusts the way you have to present things to enable them to learn.

There's also the strangeson website - very helpful if attempting anything like this.

oh should have said I read Lucy's Story when ds1 was 5- but its taken us 4 years to get to the stage where I think it's possible to try and teach this (and I think he does need some teaching; Lucy Blackman perhaps didn't- or at least not in the same way, although she was older).

Thanks Yurt. Her DS is non-verbal, but he is only 4, so who knows, maybe speech will develop... However for future reference I think she will find this extremely valuable. Thanks again.

oh yes, and for me reading Lucy Blackman (at a time when I still thought speech might develop) was really positive - just to realise that despite lack of speech I was right to think that there was a lot going on in there iyswim.

she agreed to take him

excellent

I know that it's all going to be daunting .. but what an amazing opportunity

here's to a succesful outcome and a DS who can communicate

Fantastic news, yurt!

Oh he can communicate pretty well Twig (He has a good pair of lungs on him).

I know what you mean though. And if it works for him then he'll be communicating in sentences. (need a chin to floor emoticon)

Fascinating Yurt.
I really wish you all the very very best. Please let us know how you get on.

Didn't seem to be any references on the info. which is a shame.I would like to know about theoretical rationale behind it (which doubtless you have sniffed out like a bloodhound)

Re wht you say about reading feeding back into language Ancient, this is of huge interest to me.

I have decided to do my MSc research on the headsprout reading programme (which my supervisor considers to be the best around bar none and see if it impacts on language ability when used with children with Autism.

The pilot study will be published at some stage I presume. But it's still ongoing. If you go to Autism One, there's a conference presentation (powerpoint) that can be downloaded. It does explain the rationale.

The difference between this and everything else I've seen is that it is designed with non-verbal (after age 5) children in mind. I just haven't come across that, except in things like HALO (which is hard for parents to implement and is difficult to generalise into independent communication with everyone). It seems quite Lovaas in its approach (from what I've seen so far, which isn't a huge amount- although with a few differences and more emphasis on how language is being used and introduced).

I'm not convinced about (only) VB for children who remain non-verbal after 5, although if we have time I'd like to continue with things like fast trials etc. We'd reached a stage of being stuck really. I hope this will be more interesting and allow ds1 to progress. It's his inability to communicate at more than a one word level (PECS) that is holding him back.

From talking to her she has a very good understanding of the physical support needs of many of the children who remain non-verbal, but she also understands the importance of independence. I haven't really come across that many people who understand the specific problems of remaining non-verbal (Growing Minds being a notable exception, although their emphasis was still on gaining speech and I'm just not sure about that for ds1 - they do have an awful lot of experience with non-verbal individuals up to adulthood though) and how that impacts on the way things have to be done.

Anyway we'll see how it goes. We've been playing around with literacy for a while, and I hope this will give us the structure we need to be effective and the materials we need to make it interesting and lively for ds1.

here are the autism one presentations from where you can download the powerpoints.

Autism one is a conference aimed at parents. Researchers/practitioners present to an audience of parents on the whole, so the presentations aren't research/theory heavy. But this does sum up what she's doing and the children/adults the program is aimed at.

a true, I think essay on what happens when your child is non-verbal

I showed ds1 a video of Dov communicating via typing and explained to him that Dov was autistic like him and in the video about the same age as him. DS1 was fascinated - he sat and stared at Dov then started laughing, grabbed the letterboard and spelt out his name (for the first time ever)- then pointed back to the computer.

I took it as a clear communication that he wanted to be able to type like Dov

Blimey to all of that.
And triple blimey to your ds typing his name.

I wish you all the best, it sounds very exciting. It does remind me though of the Nina Lovaas Reading & Writing Program. Have you ever looked at that? A friend whose DD is non-verbal but uses a VOCA started on that. Would be interested to know what you think and if there is any link between the people and programs.

I know little about that Davros, but having skimmed I think it's different. The key with this program is (I think) to get language understanding into sentences. SO there's work towards understanding sentences. I don't think it assumes visual learning (would be stunned if it did as she's communicated a lot with Portia Irvensen (who recommends her) who thinks non-verbal kids are not visual learners - I'm inbetween personally).

It also is careful to teach tense. I'm not sure where Nina Lovaas fits in with that.

Oh AFAIK there's no link to the people.

She was previously involved in a very ABA based language learning program (details of which I've totally forgotten/lost). She said that she thought it was good, and it worked, but it was difficult for parents to implement as it was 'strict' so she went off to do her own thing. That program still exists (I looked it up when I could remember it) and is run by others and seemed to get good reviews from teachers.

I've kind of assumed the Lovaas type link from stuff she's said, and because it starts with some matching but I don't really know how it would compare with a complete Lovaas programme.

oh and I'm aware I could be totally paraphrasing there and getting it wrong

I know moondog.

Of course he proceeded not to do that again (well he can sometimesand he's good at spelling out words when he's very cross )

I wish I had it on video as it was one of those 'what did he just do?' moments.

As a general aside, had a really interesting meeting yesterday with salts on my team and my supervisor Carl as we have various research projects going on above and beyond what I am doing for MSc.

Now, the salts are all very supportive of me doing the course but it got quite lively with their insistence that so many people who aren't salts don't know about language development and this plunge in at what to them seems to be an arbitrary starting point (eg. looking at reading/writing for someone non verbal).

My point was however that autistic peopel are not acquiring lang. and comm. skills according to 'normal' devpt. schedule so what use is knowing about it in this context?

So, for example, the teenage who i am working with at present can't look someone in the eye and respond appropriately to a greeting, yet can draw from memory, the packet of a box of posh Italian pasta, lisitng weights nad ingredients.

From a devpt. perspective, someone would decide that working on greeting and joint attention would be the place to start but FFS, what use would that do??

Exactly moondog.

A really interesting book (and very easy read ) is Portia irvensons (oh god I've spelt that wrong) but the Strange Son book.

The book is a bit Hollywood in places, but Portia is sincere and she is interested in research - she set up CAN so funds a lot of it- and her new baby is to fund research in this area.

scroll down to 'actual footage from chapter 14 It was this video that got ds1 going!

It really explains the difference between performance and actual ability as well.