Well we're going ahead with this reading/writing communication thing for non-verbal ds1........

[yurt1]

We're working with Marion Blank. I've been very impressed when talking to her. She has a program for teaching non-verbal autistic children to read, write and type with understanding.

Details on the programme here

I'm quite excited. I think ds1 is ready for it. We had to send video of ds1 working in order to assess whether he had enough compliance and attentional skills for the programme. The ABA table work has paid off- he does- (he wouldn't have had 2 years ago).

Sooooo a year of hard work (for all of us) starts here.....

here's video of non-verbal Carly Fleischmann typing I think she had acquired more language than ds1 - although of course it's hard to tell. The prorgamme we're doing works specifically on teaching language too.

BTW that video was the first time Dov had communicated in this way. He now types totally independently (no hand on leg).

Saw your staus on Facebook and hoped there would be more info on hre. Wow. The possibilities are incredibly exciting aren't they. Shouldn't wish time away but would love to quickly fast forward and see how he's getting on!

oh 'it' that does the explaining being the book not the video.

Amazing.Have made a note of the book.

I hate getting hopes up in a way TC, (dashed too many time) but it's weird - ds1's reaction to Dov typing was so clear, that I feel we need to give it a really good go. And this is something I can work with to try it as we need to.

I also think that he really wants to communicate. The first time I realised, he was about 6. He was trying to tell me something, I didn't understand. I said "oh ds1 it would be so much easier if you could juts talk'. And OMG as soon as the sentence left my mouth, he howled. I mean howled. Howled and howled with tears streaming down his face.

I felt awful. I hadn't even realised until then how much he wanted to be able to talk.

It's el cheapo on amazon moondog.

if you ever do much work with non-verbal kids I'd recommend the Strange Son forum. There's a free manual you can download there as well that sets out how to teach this method- but it needs a child who has pretty robust language comprehension and good literacy skills already. Worth looking at though.,

Thanks Yurt.Yes I have been looking at the site and most of my work is with non verbal people.It's my main area of clinical interest.

Oh bless him. Well I think if he wants it that much then you can't get a better start aye. It may not end up working out as you may, or may not perceive, but you're giving it a shot and that's what it's really about. Giving him the opportunity and just seeing what happens. I can only forsee good coming of this, no matter what the overall outcome, it can only ever be a good thing.

I know you know that btw, iykwim!

I know TC- but it's nice to see someone else see that too iykwim. If it doesn't work out it won't be a failure for us, it will be having ruled out something we had to try. I've rejected lots of 'new' therapies over the last few years, but this one seems right for ds1.

oh do read StrangeSon then moondog. Although the read is light it is well referenced and I think gets to many of the biggest problems the non-verbal face (movement problems amongst others).

School are being very supportive Christie.

Haven;t seen your other thread

oh am doing online floortime course as well at the moment which is interesting (of course has to be remembered that reading/writing doesn't actually tackle autism itself)/

That sounds really exciting - I've just watched those videos too and they are amazing. Good luck to all of you!

Oh, I'm so glad Marion Blank's agreed to work with ds1, Yurt. Typing out his own name is astonishing (and the other story about him wanting to talk is so moving).

Really, really hope you get somewhere with this.

Oh, fantastic. As someone else said below, it must be great to be given the chance to work at something that you think would help your ds1 - after all ,aren't we always told (when it suits, natch ) that we know our children best? If you think that this is something that would help ds1, then there will be something that you and he will be able to take away from it.

The best of luck to you both

Is 'Floortime' some sort of programme then?

wow amazing, I read your post earlier about Marion Blank and after reading about her, I am - like everyone else here - very excited for you and your DS! I've ordered her book.

Floortime is quite like RDI, but has been around for years and years. I find the theories behind it (which the course covers) fascinating as they're kind of similar to my PhD stuff. It's not a whole therapy in itself (unless a child is developing well independently) - still need language therapy etc on top, but it's interesting. Not sure whether we'll be able to apply any of it - will see when we reach the end..... I'm partly doing it towards skills training requirments for the PhD.

silverfrog- I think I'm getting better at spotting which stuff is good for ds1. I used to have a 'if it isn't going to do any harm and we can afford it it's worth a go' rule. Stopped that a few year ago and now try to do stuff only if I think it's going to work. Growing Minds was a good choice and has made a huge difference- so am hoping this will be the same.

If anyone's interested in language development in non-verbal individuals with autism (especially if they remain so) I'd really recommend Lucy Blackman's book Lucy's Story as she explains how it was for her. Also her chapter in Doug Biklen's book 'autism and the myth of the person alone'- it's all about her experiences with language development and processing etc. It's a bit mind blowing as its so far from 'normal' but very insightful.

this case study might be of interest to some

We've used the writing out choices thing for a while. So for example one morning ds1 came downstairs, was a bit floppy. He'd been up in the night and I wasn't sure whether he was tired or ill. No temperature. I wrote on a piece of paper POORLY and TIRED and asked him which he was- he pointed straight to poorly, so I got him a blanket. An hour later he threw up.

The prof who DXd DS1 suggested that I have aspergers traits too. I mentioned that I taught myself to read when I was three and he thought this might be hyperlexia, I'm not sure as I think my main motivation was to follow the characters and the story. Anyway I do remember that I memorised the shape of the words rather than decoding the letters- I didn't know the alphabet until I was much older. I wonder if your DS is doing something like that or do you think he knows the letters too?

Well we don't really know how much he can read. He can read toilet as he'll spot a (word only) sign in a strange place and drag us off as soon as he sees it. He knows the letters but no idea if that's meaningful or not. He spelt out his name that first time so the sequence of letters must have been there (I think he's recognised it for a while, but we had been hand over hand teaching him the movements)- that was just one of the few times he'd produced it independently. It does seem that he can produce whole words better when he's emotional (for example 'what do you want ds1?' when he was shouting in the front room because the school bus wasn't there - BUS straight out on the letterboard. Asked the same question when he's less stressed and we get B then his attention goes.

I suspect his biggest problem (as always) is involuntary behaviour getting in the way. So to produce even a 3 letter word and to keep in control of his body for long enough to spell it out is incredibly difficult for him. I think that's what Carly Fleischman is referring to when she's asked whether ABA helped her. She replied " (I) think behavior therapy helped me. I believe that it allows me to sort my thoughts." Getting better control over voluntary behaviour was probably the main aim of our Growing Minds (ABA) programme and I can see that that that is essential if we're ever going to get anywhere with this.

Lucy Blackman describes how she knew the word 'ball' and could read it but didn't understand that it had any connection to ball the word sound, or ball the bouncy round thing. She didn't really develop any sort of language that would be understandable to us until she started typing aged 13. I would need to re-read but I think she talks about sorting her thoughts as well via typing and learning to think and learning language as she began to use it. She still struggles to control involuntary behaviours and responses (so she might give the wrong response to a question - she talks about spelling out 'don't let me force you into McDonald's' when asked where she wants to go for lunch at the same time as pushing someone phycially into McD for example) but is better with help from someone else.

I think it's this sort of thing that is going to be our biggest hurdle. To teach through all that other stuff that goes on- especially in non-verbal kids - and for ds1 to remain organised enough to produce responses with that sort of problem going on.