Worried ds 2 has aspergers

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This is long im afraid...

ds 2 has just had his 7th birthday..since he was ab out 4 Ive had slight concerns but never anything I could really put my finger on..developementally..he reached all his milestones but speech was sigificantly delayed..speech therapy seemed to improve things but he still speaks in a very lilting type of voice, often merging letters together at the beggining or end of words..he has only recently learned to ride a bike without stabilisers. He has serious obsessions..every morning when he gets dressed he has to repeatedly adjust the collar on his polo shirt..he collects things, bottle tops, pebbles..etc and arranges them in boxes in his bedroom and every day without fail, gets them down and counts them, he also lines them all up on the fireplace repeatedly and they have to be just so.hes terrified of crowds and busy places or loud places, lead him to panic and put his hands over his ears. he quite often repeats nonsense words over and over, or couts imagineary things in thin air.. he goes beserk if I spring anything on him he wasnt expecting..such as a shopping trip etc..he seems to have a great thirst for knowledge..but beyond what you would expect..he contantly asks complex questions..like why did the world begin etc and will talk about his chosen subject every day for weeks. On his birthday..he wrote a list of desired presents..transformers movie and 2 dinky transformer toys..thats all he wanted..when other presents arrived on his birthday..he unwrapped each one silently until he got to his "list" presents then became overjoyed...I could go on...hes recently been told hes a maths whizz and is more able and talented..no surprise when he is contantly counting things...he doesnt seem to have a friendship group and seems to prefer hois own company at school..when children speak to him at school, he often ignores them or comes out with something silly.His teacher isnt concerned and thinks im worried about nothing as hes good as gold at school..but his behaviour is generally quite good anyway unless his routine goes out the window.
He collects coppers in a box and gets them out and counts them evetyday..quite obsessively.....yesterday..he came home with 15 pounds in pound coins..it was the snack money from school..I was devastated that he could do this..but..he didnt seem to realise it was wrong..he openly showed the money to me and said he took it because he likes to collect money and wanted to put it in his tin.
I went in to see the headmisstress today and explained everything..she was dismissive of my concerns and said ds was a liar and a thief..she then spoke to ds and told me that ds knew exactly what he had done and that I was making excuses for his behaviour..im not..but i genuinely dont beleive that ds understood it was wrong..or thought about the consequences..Im so upset now..b ecause I just feel its yet another bout of ds"odd" behaviour but I dont know where to turn to seek help for him.

should add that I am not worried he has aspergers in that my world will end if he has..but Im worried that he has..but will remain undiagnosed iyswim...Ive had concerns for so long..and I think Im going to have to fight hard for a dx

I know nothing about it but he does sound as though he has several behaviours that are linked to AS. I would be utterly [shocked] at any headteacher that reacted that way against a small child, AS or not. That makes me angry and she should be aware that his behaviour is not NT as such.
I would be thinking of a different school possibly, but yes you might benefit from a Dx first and foremost - others will be along to put me right on most of this I'm sure
Chin up. He sounds lovely

I have two DSs with a diagnosis of Asperger's. Your DS has certainly got many AS traits and I would definitely ask your GP for a referral for him to be assessed. The school obviously has very little knowledge of AS to dismiss your very legitimate concerns.
Do go the GP route though-much better to do it this way than expect school to do anything. (My youngest DS, now 9, was dx at 6 and his school were adamant he did not have AS until he had an official dx, the they had to accept it).
As you say, it is not the end of the world-and in my opinion, diagnosis can only be good as it help stop the ignorant reaction to AS behaviour as displayed by your school head. It also helps the child to understand why he is "different."

have you spoken to school Senco at all? you would hope she would be more aware and sympathetic than head.

I agree with going to GP. Also if you speak to your local SNAP (welsh equivalent of parent partnership). They are employed by council to give guidance about legal rights/procedures to parents of kids with SN. As they are employed by council they aren't 100% unbiased but still a useful starting point for finding out about local system.

Thank you for your replies..last night I was so upset about the money incident..but upset because I knew why ds had taken it..he is like a little magpie..if he sees any thing shiny and pretty , he picks it up..regardless of whether it belongs to anyone..but I dont think he understands that just because its unattended, you musnt take it.. Im a mum of 4 and Ive always felt that ds was very different to the other 3..for a long time..I dismissed it as a quirky personality..his school teacher thinks hes fantastic because he comes into school and gets on with his work and is good as gold..I suspect that the order of the school day is something he thrives on and he loves maths so much..his teacher has given him an extra workbook to do so he is in his element..The head teacher said they have never noticed anything unusual..but in a class of 20 would they really spot high functioning AS?

He is a delightful little boy..who seems to enjoy being around adults more..he can have quite a grown up conversation with you..but when he gets an idea in his head..he will talk incessently about his chosen subject.
When he is at home..he is only happy if he is drawing and doing sums. We have been moved 2 years now..but ds has never been invited round to another childs house.
As Im typing this..he has his bottle tops out again on the living room floor and is counting them

I will contact the GP on tuesday and get an appt...

Is your ds happy or would he like more friends? How does he interact with his siblings?

My DD1 has alot of the symptons for Aspergers, but not so bad that I think she needs to be assessed. She has another medical condition so she is seen by Doctors for this. I wouldn't be happy with the Head if I were you, my DD is being bullied at the moment, but all her Head is worried about is the image of the school and how they did in the 11 plus.

Ds occasionally asks if he can go to a friends house..and I just tell him he has to wait to be invited which he accepts..he seems happy..there is one child that he really likes and Ive invited this little boy round quite a few times..however when he comes round ds never wants to play the same game as this little boy and often comes and plays on his own..leaving his friend in the bedroom..his friend will often ask to go on the playstation, but when its on, ds will sit and play on it..seemingly oblivoius to his friend and his pleas to have a turn.

a typical conversation between ds and his friend would be something like this.

xxx "weve got ratatoulle on dvd"
ds2 "I got 2 transformers for my birthday..jazz and ratchet..they are fab did you know that jazz can do this.. and ratchet can do that...etc etc.

xx "cool..I like transformers..ratatouille is great..I really liked it

ds2 "xxx look at my transformers..(then goes into a detailed conversation about these 2 particular transformers)

xx"can we go on the playstation

ds2 (continues to talk about his transformers)

he is heaviliy into transformers at the moment and knows each one inside and out and will talk for hours on this particular subject.

when I take him to school..children say hi to him etc but he just walks into class and ignores them..I used to think he was horribly rude.. when he was in year 1..I asked his teacher if he had friends..her answer was ds 2 seemed to be liked by children..but seemed happy with his own company and would wander from one group of children to the next..she said that if he was in a particular group in class..and some started bickering..he would just get up and walk away.

Ive noticed that as he gets older..boys dont generally speak to him much..girls seem to like him, but when they speak to him..he buries his face in his hands or ignores them

He adores his big brother who is 14..but ds1 is irritated by ds2..because he talks contantly at ds1.
He seems quite able to play make beleive games and seems to have a very vivid imagination..we quite often joked that he is in another world..he tries to have conversations with dd2(3) which are way beyond her capabilities..for example this morning he was trying to explain space, gravity etc to poor bemused dd who was nearly in tears after being told that our house would float away in space!
Last year ds2 had a disco party for his birthday with games..but spent the whole party rooted to my side because he said he didnt like the loud music lights etc.
Soft play centres are gennerally a no no as ds doesnt like busy places with lots of visual stimuli

From your posts it sounds like the accumulation of little oddities which make a bigger picture. From what other MNs have said I think it is the same for lots of us - there's suddenly a point where enough is enough and we need to know if there is a dx which fits. We have no regrets about DS's dx - school had to acknowledge that they were looking at a boy with specific difficulties after the dx, and not just a naughty boy with useless parents! It does help to keep a diary with notes in for the assessment meetings. Good luck!

catok..yes its only when you add up all the peculiar little traits that it seems significant..which is probably why school are not concerned..the taking of the money was the final thing for me..because he didnt try to hide that hed taken it.

Hi Spcaecadet,

Re your comment:-
"The head teacher said they have never noticed anything unusual..but in a class of 20 would they really spot high functioning AS?".

Many teachers would not spot AS even if it bashed them on the head!. They are just not trained to recognise such problems when presented with them.

I would also seriously now look into you as his parents directly applying for a Statement of Special Needs from the LEA. Having such a legally binding document could well make his school life easier for him as he progresses through the school system. It will become harder for him socially but a well worded Statement can address such issues.

Would also look into finding him a more understanding school - the current Head does not seem at all understanding and quick to judge.

You need to ask the GP to refer you to a developmental paediatrician at a child development centre.

Thank you meerkat..Im so glad I posted here because I really thought I might be going mad and imagining it all..tbh..I was so upset with the head teacher with the way she reacted to the money going missing..she didnt seem interested in the reasons why ds took it..she just saw everything in black and white..he was a thief..I felt half inclined to remove him from the school..but he will be leaving in july as its an infant school and he has to go up to the junior school..in the meantime..I will work on getting him a dx and hopefully the junior school will be slightly more understanding..my little girl has started in the nursey class there..but tbh im also tempted to remove her aswell.

A lot of the things you describe are my DS to a T - certainly the conversation between him and a friend. DS is 5 and we have been referred to a child development team for assessment - 5 month waiting list . We also suspect aspergers.

Your headteacher sounds awful. I would be distraught if I were you and she had spoken about my DS like that. You know your DS after all. I am at the beginning of the assessment process but how you wrote about your DS really rang a bell with me so I wanted to reply to your post.

Almummy...did you initiate the ferral..or was it the school?.
tbh as far as the headteacher is concerned..I am distraught.I feel sick to my stomache every time I think about how she spoke to ds..when she was talking to him..he was looking at the floor and she shouted "look at me"..I wanted to slap her
ds's dad refuses to see a problem..but my mum is now supportive of my way of thinking as she has ds at hers every other weekend so gets to spend quite a bit of time with him. and has said herself that a lot of the things he says and does..are a bit "unusual"

with the head. Sounds like the head at ds old school. evil witch

No advice to add to that given by other posters but if you want to chat then you can email me [email protected].

DS's school called us in to say they had a few concerns and SENCO had taken a look at him. I didnt mind this because to be honest I was just waiting for them to bring it up - a previous nursery had raised concerns. They asked if they could refer him to the Educational Psychologist, which we agreed to and then we off our own back took him to our GP and asked them for a referral. I wanted to have a certain amount of control - for it not just to be something that was happening to us IYSWIM? I told the GP my concerns and asked for a referral to a Developmental Paediatrician, she referred us in the end to a Child Development Team. We met with the Ed Psych (via the school referral not our GP one) and she told us that she could make the referral but that it would be quicker if we went via our GP, which we already had. I also had that advice from people off this board as well - go to your GP etc. This board is great by the way. I didnt have a clue how to go about the referral etc. All the information I have written above is from the help of others on here.

I am so on your behalf re his head teacher especially after your description of her shouting "look at me" at him. She sounds awful and utterly clueless. I imagine my DS having that happening to him and I feel like crying just at the thought. I have a current thread about DS clothes chewing going where I have talked about my DH - sounds the same as yours. TBH I would tell his headteacher that you are now seeking a diagnosis and for her to LAY OFF! I would also be tempted to tell her how surprised I am that she as an Education Professional has not managed to pick up on this herself, however best to try and keep her on side at this point I suppose if your DS is to be staying there for a while longer.

Hi SpaceCadet

Hopefully the Junior School in question will be more understanding - but I would not count on this being automatic. Do speak at some length with the SENCO before he starts there in September.

Would reiterate my suggestion to apply for a Statement of special needs from the LEA asap.
www.ipsea.org.uk have model letters you can use and lots of information.

Would also suggest you look at the National Autistic Society's website as they I think have lots of info on AS.

You need to ask the GP to initiate the referral to the dev. paed asap - if this school do it (and that seems unlikely given their attitude) it will take forever besides which they are also not likely to do anything. You need to get the ball rolling asap.

You are your son's best - and only advocate.

Your DS's dad needs to get past his denial because burying his head in the sand will not help anyone, least of all his son.

I will definitely be ringing the gp on tuesday..I dont anticipate that the school will be any use tbh

given your previous problems with CAHMS with waiting lists etc, I would ask for referral to a developmental paed.

That money incident clinches it for me- this is a situation that the school can't handle and where a diagnosis would really help. You need to fight his corner, otherwise he'll end up in more and more situations that he can't handle.

Have booked a doctors appt..and not sure if I should take ds with me?? I dont feel comfortable with sitting discussing ds in front of him.

Have had a long chat with ds's dad and he has conceeded that their is a problem..I just dont think he wanted to accept it.

bump

It is embarrassing being expected to talk about your child whilst he's sitting there. I now write down everything that's concerning me and ask the paediatrician to read it, first, rather than having to say it all out loud in his hearing. I also try to arrange appointments so that my husband is there at the same time, so that he can take my ds out of the room and play with him there while I talk to the paed. My son can then come in when they want to examine him/talk to him. He's not stupid, of course - he still knows we're talking about him when he's not in the room, but at least I can be more honest when he's not there. If my husband (or someone else willing to support me) weren't there, they would expect my son just to sit in the room, playing with something, which would inevitably mean he sits and listens intently to everything being said - he is not the sort of child who will happily distract himself playing with something and not notice what the adults are saying.

I second the writing down - I now make a copy because they have always taken the notes (envelope that I've written on in blue felt tip!)off me because it's so useful. I try and talk about ds1 using language he won't understand, but his language isn't sophisticated - I know a lot of as kids would have no problem understanding.