IM SO ANGRY-im shaking

[jenk1]

there was a meeting held with dd,s nursery and our hv on 31 jan re dd,s toileting difficulties.

we were on holiday and had asked for another date to be set.

they went ahead anyway.

outcome/';

there is no indication to state that dd shouldnt be toilet trained and that parents need to set a date to get her out of nappies and into knickers.

this despite her paed writing nursery a letter stating that she has incontinence difficulties due to her CP.

i need to take this further but am not sure how.

God that is annoying Jenk!! Letter to head of SEN at LEA I reckon, as they really must include parents in meetings. Or nowadays an email is often read quicker, and is more satisfying I find as it's instant! You can usually work out the email address by going on LEA website, finding an email address and configuring name of head of SEN in same way. Good luck!

Outrageous attitude !!

I know nothing about CP, but i'm sure you can't force an NT child out of nappies, some just aren't ready !!

And with a pead's letter too....( for you)

sheesh. If a child isn't ready, a child isn't read.
My friends son has severe CP and finally at 7 he is asking for a 'wee'. gets it wrong most of the time though. He just doesn't have the muscle control or awareness because of his brain damage.
Don't they get that brain injured children don't refuse to potty train out of stubborn-ness. Gawds.

I would ask them on Monday how they exactly arrived at this erroneous conclusion. How could they override a paeds letter re her incontinence difficulties, did they not read this letter?.

Strongly worded letters to both this nursery's management and Primary Care Trust management re the HV would be something I'd start writing. You also may want to take this matter up with your MP.

I would also speak with the paed in question re this nursery's stance. Its appalling treatment by this nursery and health visitor.

have drafted 2 letters to the management of nursery and the primary care trust but dont think ive worded them strongly enough.

am going to paste on here and see if anyone can help me.

It has come to our attention that a meeting was held in your nursery between yourselves and our health visitor on Thursday 31Jan 2008 concerning R,s toileting difficulties.

Despite us telling both XXXXXXXXX from your nursery and XXXXXXXX that we would be on holiday and that it would need arranging you still went ahead with the meeting without us as r.s parents present.

You will recall that R,s Consultant Paediatrician Dr P wrote you a letter confirming R,s diagnosis of Hemiparesis, which is a form of Cerebral Palsy and the associated toileting difficulties and that she would need a lot of help with her toileting.

The notes from this meeting fail to acknowledge that letter and it actually states there is no indication to state that R shouldnt be toilet trained

You are also aware that R has Emotional and Behavioural difficulties and has various medical professionals involved in her care and we are currently waiting for her to be asessed by Dr A to find out if her difficulties place her on the Autistic Spectrum as first suspected of by Dr B Asessment of 2 years ago which you have a copy of.

Despite us as her parents repeatedly telling yourselves that R shows extreme behavioural problems when faced with toileting and has now developed a phobia of toilets/potties you completely disregard what we have said and go over our heads and hold a meeting with a health care professional who no doubt was not made aware of the letter from Dr P by yourselves during the meeting.

We consider that you have acted inappropriately,unprofessionally and that you have breached both r,s and our confidentiality by speaking to a health professional without our permission and as such we shall be taking this matter further.

We refuse to allow you permission to toilet train our daughter until we have spoken to her Paediatrician Dr P and got specialist healthcare advice on training children with a disability such as R has.

The penultimate para might be a bit strong if you need to carry on working with these people.

which one is the penultimate one?

Jenk1,

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles.

I would write to your HV and ask her to clarify whether she was made aware of the leter from Dr P to the nursery. If she says she was not, you will then have strong evidence upon which to found your complaint.

I completely understand your frustration about the whole situation and the apparent blantant disregard for your opinions. However, I agree with ProfessorGrammaticus that it would be prudent to go easy in the second from last para and also the last. How about this (just a suggestion)...

"We are concerned about the following issues and request your written response within 7 days:-

1. Why did the meeting take place on x/x/xx in our absence?
2. Did you provide the HV with a copy of Dr X's letter at the meeting on x/x/xx? If not, why not?
3. Please provide a copy of our written consent allowing you to discuss R's confidential medical details with HV.

If we do not receive a satisfactory response within 7 days we will provide a copy of this letter to our MP.

We are disappointed that you have decided it is appropriate to toilet train R contrary to the advice of Dr P and against our opinion. We do not agree with your decision.

We will ask Dr P to write to you setting out the appropriate method of toilet training children with hemiparesis. It would clearly be inappropriate to attempt to toilet train R until his expert advice can be considered.

We therefore propose arranging a further meeting once the advice of Dr P is received. We will consider, at that stage, whether we are prepared to consent to your toilet training proposals.

We await your early reply."

Good luck...

Absolutely unbelievable Jenk1. Ds1 has Hemi and it makes me laugh when I think of 'setting a date' to get your dd out of nappies.

Your letter, and the suggestion by DavidCameronsTie should do the trick.

Unbelievable

Hi Jenk1

Penultimate means second to last.

You've used "Despite us" twice to begin a paragraph. I would instead use Inspite of to begin the sixth paragraph.

I would also conclude with this, "Your written response to our serious concerns would be appreciated within seven days".

TBH I'd copy this letter to your MP now or at least visit him in his surgery, MPs often hold such surgeries for their constituents.

Good luck Jenk, would be interested to have an update.

Jen, I don't think your letter is too strong at all. I cannot believe the nursery are putting you in the position!!

Jenk
wtf is the nursery's problem with your dd not being toilet trained - she's in nursery - she's young & has sn.
How old is she Jenk?
All children are different, how can YOU set a date to have your dd toilet trained, its something you can work towards when appropriate & when she's ready.
I don't think your letter is too strong, the HV should have questioned why a meeting was going ahead without you present, they should know better!

she,s 4 in april.
but she only looks like she,s 2, she,s so tiny.

apparantly one day at nursery she was dry for 2 hours-well thats news to us and i dont beleive them.

Jenk.. for you. My Ds1 didn't toliet train till he was almost finished at nursery and Dd1 was the same. It never bothered the staff.

she is not even 4.... I am so annoyed for you. They have no right to do this

poor little thing, she's just a baby, why don't they leave her alone, bloody bully's.
ds2 wasn't out of nappies during the day until September & he's just turned 5. His was more a toilet phobia/asd thing but he has mild CP too.

FGS there were nt children in his nursery still in nappies at 3.

just found out that the hv is one of the governors of the nursery.

not sure what that means or how it changes things but im sure its not good, does that mean that she acted wrongly as well?

Hi jenk

We've just ahd this battle ourselves- it looks like DS3 will be palced in Sn education aprtly as a result, although meeting not until march (!), he has a dx from OT of sensory hyposensitivity which means he cant tell if he is wet / dirty or indeed actually in process of such. School just asaid they wouldn't do nappies and refused to change him, despite Paed actually coming to a meeting with us long before he started school to explain.

What our aped has done has actually meet with the LEA and amde them agree to put the toileting needs into the statement. That means school has to comply (or well, they decided to call an early statement review but it did force them to address it).

SENCO still keeps saying 'when you trainhim', despite the fact that he WAS dry for a year pre- one of his regressions! hardly a child not trained, would you say? And ds1 and ds2 have never had an accident post training, which for ds1 was at 3.3 and ds2 before his 3rd birthday.

I am going to look round the ASD unit next week, and the LEA bloke is taking me round some other units soon as well- hope to goodness they have their heds screwed on a little better.

im getting on to her paed first thing tomorrow morning, knowing him he will be extremely peeved that a hv has gone over his head, he has a reputation for not taking any sh*t and im hoping he will be writing to her bosess demanding to know why this has happened.

think we have 3 things going on here.

1, nursery are bordering on obsessional behaviour in getting dd toilet trained ready for school, could be cos we are at tribunal on 12 may?

2, they are blatantly ignoring that she has a disability so that is disability discrimination

3, that the hv who is also a govenor of the nursery has also been involved.

i need to draft a letter to the hv,s boss, im off to do one and will post it on here to see if it needs tweaking!!!!

On 31st of January 2008 your Health Visitor XXXXXXXXX attended a meeting at XXXXXX Nursery, with staff.
The meeting was about our daughters difficulties with toileting.

Jen had advised both XXXXXX and the nursery that we would be on holiday and that the meeting should be rescheduled.

The meeting went ahead anyway.

The outcome of the meeting in the notes provided to us by Louise was that after reading r,s notes there was no indication why toilet training should not be started and that us as her parents needed to set a date to get her out of nappies.

We ask you to clarify the following.

How nursery and XXXXXX reached a decision that there are no medical difficulties despite a letter written to nursery from Dr P Consultant Paediatrician who has been treating R for a number of years and who diagnosed her with hemiparesis also known as Cerebral Palsy and incontinence problems.

When it is well known that R has Emotional And behavioural problems, she is currently waiting for an asessment from Dr A to see if her difficulties place her on the Autistic Spectrum as suspected 2 years ago by Dr B in her asessment (nursery also have a copy of this), and its well known that children with EBD problems take a lot longer to toilet train.

XXXXXX herself referred R to the incontinence service a year ago and we have been receiving free nappies, now she says there is no medical evidence for her NOT being in nappies, please can you explain as this is very confusing to us.

We consider both XXXXX and the Nursery to have acted innapropriately,unprofessionally and that our daughters confidentiality has been breached as a result of having a meeting without us as her parents present and that our views have not been listened to.

we ask you to investigate this immediately before taking this matter further

yours sincerely

Jenk, the HV being a governor must be a conflict of interest, is she really going to work in the best interest of your child when she knows she has to maintain relationships with the nursery staff because she is a governor.

Please Jenk if you do want ms for your dd, please look at alternative schools, find a school that will welcome your dd as the person that she is.
I knew our catchment school didn't have the right attitude to do the best for ds2, but we have found a school that welcomed him & wanted him to go there.

this nursery is not attached to a school its a wait for it

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SPECIAL NEEDS NURSERY

the primary that we want her to go to are brilliant, have other kids with the same difficulties as dd and dd has been to have a look and wants to go.

OMG I am stunned.
Can't you get her in to another nursery, what about a small playschool they may not be so inclined to think that they know it all!
The sn nursery sounds like a bunch of pompous, well I can't say - but ykwim!