Daughters behaviour

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My daughter is 12 and has wild tantrums that can last for 5 to 45mins. I can usually calm her in 5mins but when we are together (wife and me) she kicks off more throwing things to the point of violence punching/kicking. Annoying her siblings is usual by slamming doors or removing things from their room. My wife will always intervene "give her a chance" which rarely works. I find I can tell her no or stop and keep her in her room for 5mins or so she will more openly talk and calm down. Its at the point my wife wants her medicated and I don't. I want coping strategies. The school and GP are soon to be involved. It seems a lot of her issues comes from friends or school. I encourage talking to both of us, opening up etc. My wife says she needs sectioned or in a home. She has put up with it for years and snaps. I feel my daughter may be spoilt and lack structure or routine and lash out. Aibu to think medication is a last resort?

Sorry uo hear you and your family are going through this. I assume that your DD has not been diagnosed with any condition/SEN yet?
My DS had similar tantrums at that age but he was diagnosed with ADHD. He took medication which helped. The tantrums tended to happen when the medication wore off in the evening.
He had quite a difficult time at secondary school and often needed to offload in the evenings.
Personally I didn't view medication as a last resort. With any diagnosed condition the medication is there to help/treat and it helped him be less explosive.

My wife says she needs sectioned or in a home.

That seems very extreme, what has she been diagnosed with? What would you be ‘medicating’ her for? Sorry I don’t understand her diagnosis/condition.

In reference to your post, I would add that with DS a structure was very important as he then felt less anxious and more in control. Also lots of opportunity to listen to any issues which may have happened during the day. So, not just medication.

Why would medication be a last resort? She's clearly not well if she's having violent toddler-style rages at the age of 12. Medication might be the thing to help her.

If you think you're so much better than your wife at parenting your daughter, take over the childcare.

You are both focussed on the behaviour but what you need to do is find out why she is responding like this and what is triggering it. Constantly just reacting to the behaviour won’t change anything.

I agree with @Sirzy you need to find out the root cause of the tantrums/behaviour. The first step is the GP referring her for assessment by CAMHS. Once you know what she is up against, then the doctors will have options which could include medication, counselling or even parenting classes for you and your wife. Arguing now about medicating or not is putting the cart before the horse tbh as you have no idea why she is struggling with her emotions. I think your wife is being too extreme by saying your DD needs to be sectioned or in a home. I hope she has never said that to your DD as that could be emotionally abusive to tell a child they are mad as a hatter and should be sent to live in a childrens home/orphanage.

She isn't "clearly not well" because of the behaviour reported, what does "clearly not well" even mean to you? Additionally, even if "not well", medication isn't the only or even best way of helping, there's not any detail in the OP that means it must be.
The first step as he stated, was to have a consistent plan, informed by what they have found does or doesn't help to be followed, and investigations to understand any underlying reasons for the behaviour.
Medication isn't the last resort, but equally, it's not the first resort either, especially when there isn't a clear understanding of why things are happening.

I’m going to try and not be judgemental here and I apologise for sounding abrupt or rude.

if this has been going on for years, then the school and gp should have been notified years ago.

seek help and support from them, that is your first point of call.

I can understand your wife’s frustration however, if you’ve not actually seeked any help for your daughter and allowed it to get as bad as it has then she needs to give her head a wobble and help you seek treatment.

here are places you that will help.

• NHS


• school


• social services


• child and adolescent mental health charities


• family support charities


• autism and adhd charities (if it is suspected, diagnosed or not)


• abuse


• sexual trauma


• death, loss and grief


• bullying


• affected by drugs and alcohol addiction

etc….

good luck, and from someone who also acted out at that age, it is essential that you seek help ASAP as it can escalate massively and she is at risk of getting involved with drugs and alcohol, she is also at risk of suicide.

You won't be able to medicate her anyway without a diagnosis and psychiatrist monitoring her. I would say though I used to think medication was a last resort - until I got to the point of last resort and realised if I had my time again I would medicate my daughter at 12 not 14. I realised it had actually been cruel of me to let her suffer because I was worried about medication. What really hit home is that the mediation is not to manage her behaviour - its to give her a chance to be calm so she can learn coping strategies so when she comes off the medication her behaviour hopefully stays calm. Unfort when you get to the point of last resort you have a few years of mental health issues that now need therapy. Mental health issues that might not have arisen if medication was given earlier.
Its a bit like she is getting used to be calm so more likely to stay calm when she is weaned off. At the moment you can talk to her - but as she gets older she will be pushing for her independence and rebelling and then you might not be able to get her to agree to the medication. You really need a professional to advise you - it does sound like she is getting tired and acting out at the end of the day so needs some space and quiet time.

No condition diagnosed, self diagnosis done by my wife.

GP wrote it off, primary school didn't see an issue. Secondary don't see an issue as of yet. ADHD possible. I would just like the support option as alone I cope so know she can be calm but need the knowledge and assistance to do this. I am hoping the school will listen and possibly assist but these sites look like a good start. Going on for years - in some form and put down to the non structure home life as well as never been that frequent or bad.

Right, so once you’ve finished criticising your wife’s approach (and do tell us who has done more of the parenting and thus is closer to breaking point) can you explain why neither of you have got to a GP yet when she’s 12?

“alone I cope so know she can be calm” do you really not know that children can behave very differently for each parent?

For example, she could be scared of you - but feel safe with her mother.

Or her mother could just be a shit parent with no “structure”’at home 🤷🏻‍♀️

But I’m 🙄 at hearing how well you cope alone compared to mum.

Also, interesting that your thread choice is an AIBU (vs your wife’s opinion) when we do have boards on MN that offer query ADHD support.

With girls, ADHD often becomes more apparent in adolescence. I'm not saying it is ADHD but if it is, then I can understand why you may not have felt the need to raise with GP previously. GP is probably best place to start for a referral to CAMHS where you should be offered talking therapies, not just medication.
Mumsnet Special needs board has a section on teens from which you will receive kinder replies than AIBU 🙂

To be fair, the Op said his wife wants his daughter to be sectioned, put in a home, and medicated. Despite no diagnosis. There’s clearly more going on here, and just because the poster may be a man, it doesn’t mean that they are wrong to criticise the other parent. You can almost guarantee that if the poster had have said that their husband basically couldn’t control their kids tantrums and wanted them medicated, sectioned or put in a home that people would be saying to LTB, not criticising the parent who’s on here reaching out for advice.

Totally agree both parents need to actually see if the 12 year old does need a diagnosis and get on the same page, but just assuming the poster is male and therefore shouldn’t be criticising the mother is not helpful.

This is clearly a veiled (not so thinly) attempt to dig at your wife's actions. Get past that and you are more likely to get somewhere. 45 min tantrums/meltdowns at her age may well be something that would benefit from naming and medicating.

My dd has always had violent tantrums (autistic) and they become more frequent and physically damaging to me around puberty. Unfortunately there's no magic pill to stop them, you need to engage parenting methods that reduce them and coping mechanisms for yourself. They reduced drastically by 15 or so, other problems then became more prevalent unfortunately but at 23 she's finally living semi independently in university accommodation.

My advice is first of all to get help from cahms, first stop is your gp and don't take no for an answer. Social services also may be able to offer parenting skills classes to help you cope better. School may have additional ideas of local organisations that can help you with managing her behaviour. Finally drugs may be an option but she needs a diagnosis first, do not ask for them, let the dr do their job first in assessing her

Medication for what?

This is not a sarky question, but @Sirzy is right. If you start off by assuming that your DD doesn't want to behave like this, lose control and make you and your wife angry and upset, then you need to find out the underlying cause (and from that, the triggers) for her behaviour.

Medication may then be part of the package of response/treatment which helps her to cope and manage her feelings.

It doesn't necessarily mean anything that she's doing well at school. Some children with conditions such as ADHD will 'mask' at school and then come home and take things out on their parents after having to cope all day in a school environment.

@BattenburgDonkey I’m not criticising OP because he’s a man, I’m criticising him purely on what he’s said here.

Perhaps the mother is awful with the “put her in a home comment” and just wants rid. Or perhaps that was an end of tether comment to him. Mother is obviously thinking about what’s going on if she’s suggested ADHD and medication.

But here comes OP with, “well I can calm her down in 5 minutes so we don’t need medication, just strategies - and by the way it’s your fault for having no routine.”

And what’s his go to here? To come online and say, “could anyone read through this behaviour and share if strategies or medication has helped?” Nope - it’s to head online to get people to vote that HINBU, ergo his wife is wrong.

I’m not liking the cut of his gib, and that’s based on his words not his penis 🤷🏻‍♀️

I read the OP again. There’s no request there for advice, experience - even moral support for a difficult situation. Only wanting to push his opinion that medication should be a last resort - when the poor girl hasn’t even been diagnosed!

Girls mask SEN a lot more than boys do, and are not diagnosed by anyone often.

Some never do.

If she’s having episodes like this, then I think medication would help if she has SEN.

You need to push the doctors for a proper investigation.

Well medication can't be given really without some diagnosis or support in place.

You can't give the correct medication without knowing what you're medicating for.

For example - medication for adhd is different to that for anxiety.

You really do need to push for support. It sounds like you've asked before and haven't got very far?

Unfortunately the services really are at their bare bones.

Are you in a position to get seen privately?

Well they can’t really medicate before a diagnosis anyway can they? The poster also said school aren’t concerned, they think it’s home life, and if the home life is chaotic (which this posters other threads clearly show it is), then they may be right about the child not needing medication. It’s impossible to say, OP mostly needs to seek more professional guidance for their child to see if a diagnosis is needed or not.

Hi, OP. We hope you don't mind but we're going to move your thread to our Special Needs Children board now - we hope you might find some advice and support there.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_needs