15 hours awarded on statement so am YET AGAIN forced to disagree and possibly appeal!

[bonkerz]

Am really fed up. Am sat here having to write a strongly worded letter AGAIn to the LEA about the fact that my son has only been awarded 15 hours on his statement. The head in her evidence states he is already recieving over 25 hours of 1:1 support and that this is not meeting DSs needs and is only just containing the issues and that he is at risk of permanent exclusion due to his problems and is currently attending a PRU unit to enable school some time out.
Am having trouble getting case worker to ring me and arrange a meeting and im fuming TByh and totally fed up. Just had meet with parent partnership rock! So do have 2 A4 sheets of pointers to put in this letter but im so angry and upset right now i cant focus!

What are the chances of LEA upping hours from 15 to 35 based on the fact that ME and SCHOOL say he cant function or access curriculaum without it????????

I don't know about the chances of them upping it bonkerz but i'm so sorry they aren't giving ds the support he clearly needs. Sadly the school may have shot themselves in the foot by giving him such good support. Its ridiculous but my Mum (a Senco) says her LEA have done this to her lots of times.

Good luck wit the appeal

Have you spoken to IPSEA?

Really sorry that they are still being total idiots. Sending you virtual bottles of gin (or whatever is your tipple)and hugs. I think that LEAs now have to justify every penny and that managers are almost forced to take parents to tribunal or get them down that road and then give in so the managers can justify themselves to their big cheeses. Bloody pissoffing. Do you think he costs them less at the PRU than 35 hours? Alternatively you could start bandying about some names of very expensive private SEN boarding schools - that might make them sit up and count their pennies. You do have a pretty good case for one and a PRU is not an appropriate place for ASD (that is the NAS's position).
It must be pissoffing for your son's headteacher because her employer (the LEA) are totally ignoring her professional judgement so GRRRRRRRRR all round.

Hope you had a good Christmas

all the best.

Had a call from, case worker at SENA and she agrees the panel made a big mistake and she will arrange a meeting for next week to gather evidence and will try and get back to panel in 2 weeks! Positive news there but still feel shit. Letter is done have sent it to Parent partnership rock to check as it is written in very heated circumstances. School are managing to pay for PRU fopr 6 weeks because they managed to access crisis funding becasue DS was transferred to them half way thorugh funding year. They cannot fund the level of support he has been getting TBH. The case worker knows i have visited a private SEN school recently and she knows i am aware this is the only school in my region that would comfortably meet ALL dss needs.! Have also contatced 2 MPs who are contacting LEA on my behalf!!

Bonkerz, in same position as you. DS currently getting full time (31 hours) and all school staff, CAMHS psychiatrist, ed. psych. and me said he needs that 31 hours, cos, even with that,he's still dangerous tbh. The school he's at have been paying for full time out of their own budget for the last 3 years and it's not on plus he moves to Juniors next year and they won't be able to fund 8 hours out of their own budget - but the LEA have refused to amend the Statement to 31 hours (sticking to the 23 he was first awarded in the 2005 Statement). It's been to panel twice and both times turned down as there's a woman on the panel who used to work with ds once a week on social skills and she thinks he needs to be more independent and 'take a risk'....yeah love but risk what? His life as he runs out of school when unattended? Or others' safety as he throws a chair or scissors at them or bites, kicks or slaps them?

So sod it - as soon as I get the finalised amended statement, I'm appealing. It's quite a relief actually as I KNOW that the LEA won't budge yet but I also know they'll probably back down during the appeal process as ALL the evidence backs me up, as yours does with your case, and if they don't back down, I'm pretty sure I'll win. I have made this very clear to the SEN Dept at the LEA and also made a formal complaint to Head of Children's Services and have said that if that doesn't make it come good, I will go to Ombudsman.

SENDIST looks fairer than LEA panel, so I am going that route and maybe you should too. You can't appeal till you you have final statement so make sure they stick to the 8 week time limit (between sending you proposed statement and sending you final statement). We can be appeal buddies together... bastards. We don't need this, do we?

we certainly dont givemesleep! Infact i used you (said you were a friend i had been speaking too!) when i was chatting to parent in partnership today. Agree about the SENDIST panel being better than LEA panel. LEA decided to not even assess DS to begin with and yet SENDIST at our appeal gave about 12 reasons FOR assessment!! Am prepared for appeal but wish i didnt have to wait 8 weeks to get ball rolling cos i know no matter what we wont get 35 hours! Still they have the call from 2 MPs to come yet and then i may consider going to press anonymously!!!!
Got to go as DS is due at initial appointment for full assessment at CAHMS today!

DS starts his 3 day assessment next week. Will go every Friday for 3 weeks and on the 4th friday a decision will be made about diagnosis!!! Ds played up at the meeting and didnt make eye contact and decided to be non verbal and only reply by writing his answers on a piece of paper!!!
Stopped by our local county hall on way home and hand delivered letter to case worker who did look genuinly sorry for the proposed statement and has vowed she will do everything she can to get the panel to give full time but obviously right now that doesnt mean much. Will be haviong a meeting with her next week and she will go back to panel ASAP.

How about we go to national press together? I am happy not to be anonymous and it sounds like our boys are doppelgangers - ADHD?/ASD, violent, need full time, both refused statutory assessment and then both refused full time despite ALL the evidence just so LEAs can save money!!!!!!

Have you had a look on the SENDIST website at past decisions? Here are some links (can't remember if I gave you these before!!!)

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/000277.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/002400.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/002329.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/001318.pdf

www.sendist.gov.uk/Public/Upload/000059.pdf

They are similar cases to our boys and give me some hope that, eventually, this battle will be over...at which point there will no doubt be another

thanks givemesleep. TBH im seriously going to the press but for now im gonna concentrate on these assessment days and then run screaming down to county hall with the diagnosis and shove it up their arses!! A year ago i was told there was no reason for my son to get a statement as he was just naughty!!!!!
Out of those cases my case is very similar to 2, 4 and 5 of those links! Hope there i suppose!!!

My LEA had an even better excuse (cos they DID accept that he probably had ADHD, as said by paed, though no official dx at that stage as CAMHS had to dx and wouldn't see him until he was 5)...the school would be able to meet his needs from their own resources...well, I wrote to the headteachers of the three schools that J was down to go to, described his needs, and said would they be able to cope? One wrote back a brilliant email saying no way without full time, one refused to commit to paper but said no way and the other was so concerned she wrote to the LEA! So that helped my case.
"Just naughty"
They are evil, LEA people, they really are.
Glad the links have made you more hopeful.

Just had head mistress on the phone from DS school. She has just finished going through the statement fully and is disgusted. She has a long list of problems with it and is going back to the LEA today with firm comments that if full time support is not in place by Feb she will not be able to accept DS back at all. She said she had been having issues with Ed Psych and was very sympathetic about how i felt about him and she also said she felt alot of the problems were because we had been to appeal before for the assessment and that big boss at SENA had had his nose put out of joint and she is not happy and will support us if we go public and make a formal complaint!!!!!!!

OMG i dont know if this will now make things even harder at school but the pRU rang me this afternoon. The teacher who is looking after DS at the PRU thinks DSs problems are all to do with the fact he is intelligent. She says she did some tests with him at yesterday and today and he is scoring off the scale so much so she is going to request he is placed on the G+T list and talk to the school. Contradicting everything else everyone has said she also sais that she felt there was nothing wrong with DS and he was choosing to act this way because he is bored! Im so cross TBH because if that really was the case then we could sort it easily but we treis the being bored route and he got worse when he was challenged academically.

Oooh don't let the LEA know about that - "nothing wrong with DS"! They'll want to try him on a G&T path before they put up the hours - any excuse not to up the hours!

J is also very bright in certain areas, especially vocabulary and reading, but it's quite common for ASD/ AS kids to be bright - but doesn't mean there's "nothing wrong"...

It's great to know that he's bright but not so great to have him basically pronounced bright but naughty (which is what's effectively being said if she thinks there's nothing wrong with your DS.) She, and I guess you, need to wait for CAMHS to make their dx before anyone commits to paper or anything the theory that he's just bright and bored. That's my gut feeling anyway! Don't want LEA having any more excuses to be arses...not like they need them.

bonkerz,

mike was supposedly on the G&T programme (i know i am but of a different sort!!! )

despite him having 2 years off school with severe anxiety due to his AS they gave him a statement with "up to" 2o hours, we said no and appealed to sendist and he now is in a wonderful special school, has 1-2-1 in a class of 6 and his own key worker, the only way sometimes to get the lea to listen is to appeal to SENDIST, we did 3 times and each time they backed down the day before.

its AWFUL that we have to go through this for our children, its good that you have the school backing you and your LEA will NOT want to go to a tribunal with this strong evidence, so get your appeal in and watch them in the week before suddenly change their tactics and hopefully give him the statement he needs/deserves.
jen
x

DS has only been at PRU for a total of 6 days though! thats what upsets me!!!!!!!!!! I guarentee they are still in honeymoon period with him and very soon he will show some traits!
Jenk: i will definately appeal as soon as the statement is finalised as i just know it ownt be enough hours. Head said if we can get to 30 hours she would feel happy and could cope with that.
Givemesleep: I always assumed DSs intelligence was to do with the ASD as i know thats a trait! Its lovely to hear he is so clever and she said he did a maths test for 10 year olds and dropped only one point and did 45 spellings with no practice that are meant for 10 year olds and got full marks! Thats great BUT his behaviour and maturity is drastically behind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SENA have called an emergency meeting at DSs school although its not till NEXT friday!! Worried now about what its about! Hope PRU teacher hasnt rang county hall with her 'views'!

Give him chocolate, tootie fruity sweets and ribena before school so that the next few days the stupid PRU lady doesn't ruin your case with her cobbled together viewpoint of "bright and just being naughty". That's basically the viewpoint of someone who chooses not to understand ADHD. Or keep him up late watching videos so he behaves badly in the next few days at the PRU - sorry, I'm probably going too far with this advice but it drives me mad when people see fit to opine on our children when they haven't a clue and haven't seen enough behaviour to even form a valid opinion! Good luck!

Well DS had a 'whingey, bossy and loud' day on Thursday so i suppose we are finally settling in!!!!! HOORAH!!!!!!!
HAd first day at assessment place on Friday and DS has been very cagey about what happened there! He said he talked to a psych but cant remember what about.

Ds was kept behind today for half hour because he had kicked off this afternoon.

got meeting tomorrow with Head and case worker at SENA.

Cant decide how to go into the meeting though.

Do i go in all nicey nicey and just repeat my reasons for needing 35 hours OR
Do i go in guns blazing, tell case worker unless DS has 35 hours he cant go back to weavers as head clearly states she cant have DS back without this amount of support and then ask case worker where she wants DS to go??? Am not sure if i should proceed with disagreeing that a MS school is not the best option for DS. MS WOULD be if he had 35 hours of support but this isnt going to happen im sure of it!

Give it to them as an option: do you want to fully support him in mainstream or do you want to send him to (insert name of v expensive private special school here)?

And smile sweetly. It's evidenced that he can't survive in mainstream on less!

Good luck - I got my finalised statement today so it's Tribunal all the way for us!

Agree that smiling sweetly, while your words are actually quite aggressive is a good option, plus the most expensive special school you can think of is also fantastic idea and made me LOL. There is an ABA school in Wandsworth, London, which hss a 1-to-1 staff pupil ratio and costs £50k a year. I also found the phrase "I have taken informal legal advice" always helps, as it hints at legal action but doesn't go all the way. That said, a teacher I spoke to on mumsnet said the harsh truth is that the mums who shout loudest get most, as the rest can be cheerfully ignored. Still think polite is best though, charming exterior, lots of smiles, but powerful words. Go for it, your child has a right to mainstream under this govt and if this is the only way he can access it they should be giving the support the head herself says he needs!

I found smiling sweetly whilst having an iron gaze worked also mirroring what they were saying by semi repeating it back to them but adding your evidence to the contrary. 'You say that your solution is 15 hours a week because he can be unsupported for the rest of the time but what will you say to the mother whose child has been attacked with sissors by my child during those hours because that is what he did in July 07 (I'm not saying he will do that/has done that - its just an example that comes to mind)

I did say 'Well I'm terribly sorry Mr B, I have tried to save the LEA money and I'm very aware of the moral rights of all children to a range of SEN but if he doesn't get into X then the only suitable provision is Southlands College at £120,000 a year - (Mr B turns funny colour ) I'm sure we will all do our utmost not to let that be the case but if it has to happen then it does' - steely gaze, steely gaze, firm handshake, winning smile, husband reading notes left upside down on desk, more winning smile whilst trying not to vomit...

Also, can anyone go with you to take notes - you might need them for SENDIST and it will help you afterwards.

Will think of you tomorrow and every best wish and lots and lots of luck.

thanks for the replies...as always you have been great!

My parent partnership lady is in meetings all day and DH cant come as he has to pick DS up from CAMHS before the meeting would finish.

Am going to use all the things oyu said! God i love mumsnet. love the bit about informal legal advice...not a total lie cos im sure mumsnet is just as good if not better than a lawyer. Will also mention the private school as case worker KNOWS i have visited! Will go through DSs behaviour log now and find a critical incident to use when case worker dares to question the refusal of 15 hours! Thanks guys. Im nervous cos i dont want to get emotional tomorrow. Do you think i should mention press or maybe keep that till another day?

I think threatening the press is the nuclear option, if you know what I mean, so keep it for the absolute final push. If they totally disregard you,however, you could mention that your pal in PR (me) has a couple of journalist friends at the Daily Mail who are gagging to write a "Labour government's SEN policy in disarray, councils cheating parents of needy kids" type story, which of course plays into the Mail's Tory agenda anyway. Tell them that you would have to give names and all details, but try and say it more in sorrow than in anger, iykwim. It is true actually; the press do like this kind of story and we could easily get it in the paper. You could say that you have nothing left to lose, and want to tell the world what's happening to needy children, and the danger they and their classmates are being put in through inadequate one-to-one hours in (insert name of your home town). You could mention that it's also a major health and safety issue and you believe the council is failing in its duty of care if it lets your son be unaccompanied for such a large percentage of time (good legal jargon!).Tell them they need to put that point to the Head of SEN, their boss, and you will hold off till you hear back from them definitively. I would keep it as the sanction of last resort if you can though, as it can only be used once! Plus most of us mumsnetters are practically lawyers ourselves by now, so by chatting on mumsnet you pretty much have taken informal legal advice!! Go for it, and don't worry if you get emotional, you are allowed to and it's much more uncomfortable for them if you cry than if you shout!! Go in wearing your armour, and think of it as fighting for your child who can't fight for himself. I also sometimes use Bachs Rescue Remedy to give me a bit of courage.