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School have called a Child In Need meeting with Social Services - please advise. (have tried again with thread title this time!)

34 replies

daisy5678 · 16/11/2007 21:28

Hi all, am newish. I have one son (age 6) who has been dx with ADHD and SPD. His psychiatrist also says that she is positive that he is high functioning autistic too and has done the first stage of the assessment, just waiting for an ADOS test now to confirm when he falls on the spectrum.

He's always been really violent, at home and at school, and even with a full time one to one behaviour support assistant, the school have had trouble with him. Son still sees his dad a lot, but dad comes here cos son needs his routine or he flips completely, so has never stayed at dad's house.

The violence is random, at home and at school, and can be caused by something as simple as something being moved. Sometimes he just lashes out but other times goes into full blown tantrum where entire rooms get destroyed unless he is restrained. He's hurt many staff at school and also me and his dad when having his flips. We've coped OK, as you just have to, don't you, but now he's getting very big and strong, it's really hard and I worry about the future.

Had a really bad night with him the other night. We had another child here (first time this year) and he lost it, kicking me, throwing things at her, screaming uncontrollably and then said he was going to get a knife and kill me. He carried on like this all evening, and at one point, I cried. He was disgusted that I was crying and asked what I was crying for, saying 'go on, keep crying, it's just because you hate me'. No empathy, but I guess to be expected with autism.

Anyway, I wrote all this down in the home-school book and was then called out of work to go to the school who said they were concerned for us both and wanted a child in need meeting. I work in education, so get that that doesn't necessarily mean anything bad, and the school reassured me that this isn't about criticism, but about getting extra help for son.

Which I want! I did ring SS last month but was told did not meet criteria for assessment by the disability team as ADHD was not a complex disability and until the autism dx is confirmed, they won't help and won't even assess us.

So I see this meeting as a bridge to getting extra help. But ex is worried that A) Social Services might start telling us what to do - I pointed out that we are good, consistent, caring but firm parents and so we have nothing to fear from SS (am I being naive???) and worries that B) everyone will think I/ we can't cope.

I worry that A) Social Services will still say we don't meet criteria and so still not help , in which case the CIN meeting will be a re-hash of the Annual Review which happened last month, with all the same people (OT, Behaviour Support Service, Ed. Psych, psychiatrist, teachers, SENCO) or B) it'll be the usual run of 'try this strategy' and then everyone loses interest while I quietly lose the will to live and eventually am put out of my misery by being stabbed by son!

What do you guys think?

(sorry it's so long )

Sorry, forgot to say that he has been on Equasym since September. I thought it was improving his concentration until it wears off at about 4pm. School say it's hard to see the impact.

Did speak to psychiatrist tonight and she made us an emergency appointment for next week but said to keep on with the meds. I'm concerned that his rebound behaviour is worse because of the meds, but I'll leave that until we've seen psych to decide.

OP posts:
aquariusmum · 30/11/2007 11:52

givemesleep - I am sort of in the same boat as you, as the school are making noises about my DC not coping in mainstream, and I don't want him to go the special schools I have visited. I am going to home ed him if they chuck him out, helped by my ABA tutors. I might have missed earlier posts, but have you thought of ABA (or some kind of behavioural therapy) for your DS? It has really helped control my DS's behaviour, tantrums and aggression.

daisy5678 · 30/11/2007 16:38

I would love Direct Payments as he has to have carer to pick him up from school each day and take him to our house as he cannot access after school club with the other kids. That's only an hour or so a day but it's bloody expensive - £400 a month - so direct payments would help financially but nothing about the situation would be different, if you see what I mean.

But we don't meet criteria for Direct Payments either as he's not yet had the ADOS!

I don't want to go for respite as I think that will make him even more anxious. The psychiatrist said at the meeting that it MIGHT work if it was at the same time all the time and they did all the same things, but did look very dubious. I just think he needs more security, not less, and being sent away (as he would see it) would not help how he feels. Which would then bounce back on me!

Re: schools - nowhere round here seems to have a mainstream school with ASD unit attached. It's special or mainstream, although I think both special schools have links with mainstream. A unit would be ideal, though, I agree. Why are there none????

ABA and home ed are both tempting, but can't afford them - need to work. Could do part time ABA but had heard that it needs to be a substantial amount of time each week for any impact - is that right?

It all seems very hopeless at the moment. Everyone keeps saying, oh, well after the ADOS, but I don't think it'll change the school situation except he'll then be properly eligible for the ASD school that the psychiatrist is recommending.

Bonkerz, I know exactly what you mean about sometimes the SEN not being obvious, and that's what keeps making me want to hold out for mainstream. Yes, sometimes it gets a bit much for him, but he loves the stimulation of all the other kids and the activities, and I just don't want him missing out on all the mainstream stuff he does.

Why is it all so f-ing hard????

Thanks for the support; at least you haven't done the 'oh, he might grow out of it' that some wellmeaning but ignorant friends have tried!!!

OP posts:
flyingmum · 30/11/2007 17:13

I held out against a special school for my son and indeed he did cope at mainstream primary. He isn't violent though just shouty and tantrummy and very very loud! The school loved him although we had some very very tricky times (infant to junior transfer - very dodgy). We decided that mainstream secondary was not for him though and it is easier at a special school. He is with peers who are cognitively Ok and with kids with a range of difficulties. You do give up some things by going special but do gain other things (peace of mind knowing you are less likely to get that dreaded phone call) and it is about anxiety and reducing that stress. However, I think at junior level it is really tricky because most ofthe specialist places seem to be for pupils with more profound difficulties and that does not provide the appropriate peer group. Do go and investigate some of the private special schools. Are you any where near Chichester - I know there is a good primary autistic special school there. Sorry can't be any help but we did survive mainstream fully supported by the school BUT it was hard work on all our parts and my son would have school refused had I let him (horrid mean mummy!).

daisy5678 · 04/12/2007 20:44

Now they've cancelled the sodding ADOS which was supposed to be today, cos of staff illness. So won't be for ages now they said.

Nothing can go forward until the ADOS is done.

Feel like curling up into a ball and just sleeping. That or jumping out of the sodding window.

Everything was waiting on this ADOS. Can't decide on school transfer until it's done and dx is tightened up.

Want to scream. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Coupled with stupid appointment with outreach worker who's not met me or son before; school asked her in from behaviour service place. Apparently if I treat J more like a normal child and make school do the same then he'll be more normal. Her words. She said if I get so worried about him, it'll make me stressed, so maybe I should just not have daily contact with school (via Home-school book) and should get the school to reduce his support (full time one-to-one at present). Felt like screaming at her, durrrrr, why do you think I worry? Why do you think he has a full time statement? Could it be because he self-harms, destroys everything around him, attacks people, destroys rooms, gets anxious, runs out of school, threatens people with knives? Clearly I ENJOY having a child like J. I obviously LOVE him having SEN and probably never having a normal life. So insulted.

Sorry to rant. Just everything seems so so shite.

OP posts:
Davros · 05/12/2007 10:53

Did you meet the OUtreach worker or did she go into school and they have passed on what she said? I would ask to meet with her and say you don't understand what she is suggesting (don't say you don't agree although you don't!). Sounds bloody ridiculous, how can someone work with children with SNs etc and think that treating them normally will make them normal???

aquariusmum · 05/12/2007 12:20

I don't think ABA has to be full time to help
givemesleep as the techniques can be used by anyone looking after your DS. Basically, you work on finding something that retrains his behaviour. Is there anything your DS absolutely hates hates hates? Brushing his hair, or turning off computer? Then every time he is violent in any way, you instigate that punishment and then somehow contain him (hold him tight, or hold door shut). It is very hard at first, but if you stick to it he will eventually learn that there is an unwanted consequence to his behaviour and he may change. Some people have criticised me for doing this (I used hairwash) and say I am training him like an animal, but I say to those people that I'd rather deal with this behaviour now than have him get into real trouble with it when he is big and grown up, and the behaviour starts getting him into real adult trouble. Cruel to be kind is I guess how I sum it up. It all came home to me one day when my DS had bitten my father in law (aged 70) so hard that there were welts on his skin for months. I had to show him who's boss and turn that behaviour round. I can talk to you about ABA if you want, and can try and help you without you having to pay out money? I'm sorry to sound like I'm lecturing, but I really feel that a behavioural method might help where other methods don't. Big hugs to you!

daisy5678 · 06/12/2007 19:19

Davros - no, school set up a meeting for me and her at school. This was all said TO me. I'm so aware that the people at this behaviour support service place think I'm neurotic and over-protective

(basically because, even though the school are finding him very hard work & violent, and have backed me in requesting full time hours on statement, when the people from the behaviour support service come in and do small group work for social skills, they see the good side of him only, so reckon 'he's fine for us'. Even though the school are backing me now, because he is so out of control, there was a aperiod last year when they wanted to cut back from full time and give him more independence. I didn't think it was a good idea because of his unpredictability, and so the behaviour support service got involved and backed the school - cue very unpleasant meeting when I was told that I should be grateful for the hours he had in his statement (23 at the time) and was asked 'what do you want - for him to be statmented until he's 16?')

So I don't have a massively high opinion of the BSS and nor do they have a high opinion of me, hence this outreach person's preconceptions of me. But equally I don't want to argue with outreach worker as 1) it's pointless and 2) more fuel to their fire. I just won't make another appointment.

AQuariusmum - I will look into ABA - thanks. I guess the problem comes with your sentence which includes 'somehow contain him'. I can't - or, rather, I can most of the time for now, but any day now, I won't be able to.

Thanks for responses guys.

Still just so cross that no sodding end seems to be in sight. Not that there will be an 'end', but I think you know what I mean - some hope on the horizon or SOMETHING!

OP posts:
daisy5678 · 09/12/2007 20:48

Just to update you - apparently there was a discussion between our psychiatrist and the one who was supposed to be doing the ADOS last week and it's possible that they'll offer us an evening appointment this week. I don't care if it's 2 in the morning as long as it's done soon!

I think it's nice of them to offer out of hours work though. I think my desperate phone calls are kind of giving them a clue about how much I need this out of the way!

OP posts:
bonkerzaboutxmas · 09/12/2007 20:57

givemesleep. im glad you are a little happier now. Must say i have learnt that the more you hassle these people the quicker you get things done. I myself had a letter from LEA saying panel wont view DS statement assessment till FEB BUT after 3 calls on friday with tears and general arsyness it looks like it will go to panel 17th! keep on at them!

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