Is this really ADHD?

[blossomhill]

A few weeks ago I posted about dd and that the paed. had mentioned that he felt dd had ADHD.
Dd can be very hyperactive but we have noticed a pattern. Dd's hyperactivity is really bad when she is at school. This week (it's half-term) I can honestly say we have not seen any ADHD type behaviours at all! We also noticed a huge improvement in her behaviour in the summer holidays.
Can a child with true ADHD switch it on and off? I didn't think so!
I also recently bought the Dr Christopher Green ADHDbook and it says that children with language disorders (dd definitely has this 100%) can mimic ADHD behaviours.
Any advice on this gratefully received. Have gone off of the medication idea and am going to try an organic diet (hopefully). If anyone has advice on this again I would be really grateful!
Thanks in advance Blossomhillxx

My ds who is ADHD/AS is a nightmare off his Ritalin but really surprised me this week when on Tuesday I medicated him only in the morning but not the rest of the day. I was off ill and he wanted to "look after" me.

It is definitely not a case of turning it on or off as you say, but I feel for my ds, being in a more calm environment really helped. He didn't have to interact with anyone except me and he was able to get engrossed in things he wanted to (lego, k-nex, drawing etc). One of our best days yet!

Definitely worth going in the organic direction for starters, after all it can't do any harm can it? Dr Green knows his stuff, so perhaps she is just mimicking? x

Hi Chocol8. I agree that a calmer environment helps dd. I sometimes wonder if the language disorder casues her to have problems as I know the 2 often go hand in hand!
I feel that when dd is at school she has to comform for 6.5 hours and when she comes home she lets it all out. She is just 5 but is in year 1. Her birthday is 31st august so she really is the baby in the class!
Hope you are feeling better now chocol8!
Will try the organic as apparently a boy in yr4 of dd's school was smiliar to dd and the diet really helped.
One other thing that Dr Green says in his book that the children with adhd and a degree of language disorder are the hardest to deal with!!!!

Thanks Blossom, just another 6/10 days of 4 a day anti b's to go, bleugh! Still feel like pooh!

Yes a calmer environment certainly does help my ds too and I understand that it is hard to conform for such a long day...blimey, I have enough of a problem at work! If we are in the house, generally he doesn't need medicating during the day (if it's just us, no one else) but if we go shopping like today, he can become very exciteable and kind of picks up on the atmosphere around him and behaves erratically.

I really hope that the organic diet works for little Blossom, I would be very interested to hear if it helps her. x

Thanks chocol8
I am def. going to give the organic diet a go. I could really do with some help/advice on the best way to go about it as I really can't do it on my own - if that makes sense!xx

Hi blossomhill

My dh is on v restricted diet - gluten free and casein free - but nearly everything I give him is organic. What did you want to find out? Warning....it's not cheap!

Have you read a book called 'Not On The Label'? Really made me think about food in a different way.

Oops, that was supposed to say 'ds' not 'dh'. Husband is also on a restricted diet, but mainly of the wine,crisps and chocolate variety.

Hi beccaboo

I just wanted to know the best way to go about it really. Would I need to go about it gradually or would I just one day say from today all food will be organic. Even thinking about getting a bread maker.

Blossomhill - at a recent mumsnet meet one of the other ladies mentioned that her child changed character completely after drinking orange squash and when she checked it out there were lots of e numbers in it. Do they serve that at her school? Another lady there had a list of e numbers to avoid which had really helped her dd. I'll leave a message and see if she will post the e list here.

Don't really know if it's better to do it in one fell swoop or not. I guess you could just swap over as you use up things in your store cupboard? You may have to change some things in dd's diet as organic fresh produce is more seasonal - so some things you just can't get, eg. I was buying loads of organic apricots over the summer, but not available now. Some things hideously expensive too, like organic strawberries at the moment are £2.99 for a tiny punnet in Sainsbury's.

Do you know if there's an organic box scheme in your area? I'm thinking of joining one of these, you get a selection delivered each week.

What are your dd's favourite foods?

Thanks dawnie
When you actually look at the ingredients of most food, even breakfast cereals, they contain so much cr*p!
My ds (nt) goes wild on red colouring. He is like a different child!

Beccaboo - she eats quite a wide range. Loves fruit, will eat all fruit. It's funny but dd doesn't really like dinners as such. She prefers sandwiches, toast, snack type things.
Dis you notice a big change with your ds beccaboo?

I'm sure she said it was the red and orange colouring that had the worst effect on her ds also ! They definitley put that in orange squash.

I have tried Robinsons Organic squash and it tastes so, so much nicer. I just found the fruit and veg went off a lot. I would need to really dedicate part of my day to food shopping!

I've left a note for her in the 'Meetups RedHill or Nearish' thread - check it out tomorrow I'm sure she'll have posted it by then.

If her behaviour is noticeably worse at school then try and talk to a teacher to find out what snacks/drinks they give them. Is she on school dinners or packed lunch? If she's much better at home then it probably isn't your shopping thats causing a problem. They normally use cheaper quality goods in schools and they have more e number in them.

Thanks dawnie
You may have a point as we have just switched her over to school dinners as she begged us to as her beloved little friend was having them. The trouble being that she wasn't eating her packed lunch. I'd open it up and she seriously hadn't eaten any of it. She does eat most of her school dinner though!
Obviously if we did go ahead with the organic she would have to go on packed lunches again.

We did notice a big difference, but think that was more because we took him off dairy products, all around the same time - don't think he could digest them very well. Also took squash out of his diet - thought I was doing great by not giving him sugary drinks, and he'd drink masses of sugar-free apple & blackcurrant, but I didn't twig that it had aspartame in it, which isn't a great thing to give children apparently.

beccaboo - I hope you don't mind me asking but does your ds have a dx yet. If I remember correctly I think you mentioned that ds sounded a bit like dd, is that right? Apologies if it isn't!
Apparently aspartame is really bad for children can cause all sorts of problems!

I teach a lad who allegedly has severe ADHD - yet manages to be an exemplary altar boy & army cadet at weekends.

Does make me wonder (well, OK, I have no doubts whatsoever!) whether it's over-diagnosed. Even for kids who definitely do have problems with concentration/hyperactivity, a calm environment can work wonders - eg the boy I teach is aware that he finds it hard to get on in a busy & 'challenging' teaching group & often asks to work in the book cupboard!

I'd be a bit reluctant to let your dr slap a ADHD diagnosis on dd - it's so common (apparently) atm that I'm afraid it tends to attract a fairly weary & sceptical sigh from teachers.... Definitely worth trying the dietary route first.

It is so hard with dd as she 100% has a language disorder and there is no disputing that. She is also in a very supportive schooling environment ( a language unit but accesses lots of mainstream with support). Sometimes I think is it the language disorder that causes the concentration difficulties? I also wonder as she does have such high levels of support and therapy that this is the reason she is so hyper after school. Infact the more tired dd is the more hyper she gets.

There's definitely something in the diagnostic criteria for ADHD about symptoms having to be 'pervasive' or present in more than one environment. But I agree that home is often less demanding and brings out the best in some of our children. Ds1 is also miles better at interacting with adults (who know how to 'read' him and are more capable of making allowances) than he is with other children.
Have a look at this guideline which gives the criteria in full.
Later on in the same documnet there's a useful section on resources for parents too

jmb - Hope you don't mind me asking but does your ds have adhd? Thanks BH

jmb - Sorry, meant to say thank you v. much for the link, will have a good look

with thomas...diagnosed ADHD at 7 and then Asperger's at 9.... at home....1:1 we can sometimes reduce medication...even forget it sometimes.however at school needs it every day.

as far as 'turning on/off' i don't believe that is possible...i agree that a child 'with it 'has it constantly....and it is the calmer environment/diet that can trigger it stc.

with tom ....as he's now nearly 11 and i suppose we're further along the journey now...i feel that he isn't a typical ADHD (if there is one!)...but the ADHD medication does work.
However he also has the AS....and i believe that there are many frustrations he has with communication/social skills etc....so maybe 'all' that his ADHD is in his case is his 'venting his frustration'

In the case of AS....lots are so-called 'mis-diagnosed' with ADHD....but i see it differently...to me it makes sense that a frustrated child will behave in a 'difficult' way.

so what i'm thinking is BH that your daughter has the language/communication difficulties....and she is only 5.....and having re-visited the website you recommended me to ....there are so many similarities between the AS difficulties and the ones described on that website.....soooooooooooooooo i feel that maybe she is display inf ADHD type behaviour....and it could be that in school she is bewildered/distracted/unable to concentrate due to the noise.....and reacts badly (in the only way the little dot can!) and then at home in a safe 'n' calm environment she is less flustered?

so...to summarise.......!!

Tom, to me has Aspergers with ADHD ...and they feed off each other....sometimes i feel he is one more than the other....but i cannot separate the two.

There is a good RATING SCALE which our paed gave to me and his teacher at age 6....The Conners Rating Scale....and that is useful.

Mrs F - I was infact just reading my Christopher Green ADHD book (recommended by someone I know) and it said this:-

Asperger syndrome
This is said to be an ADHD lookalike but it would be impossible for any experienced professional to confuse the two. Autistic children are aloof, have poor verbal and body language, and somewhat obsessive. There is one subgroup of autism where children are extremely actice ( the 'active but odd' subgroup). They are active but they are also extremely distant and detached. This difference makes ADHD and autism like chalk and cheese. The treatment of ADHD rarely helps the active child with autism.

I don't know about you but am not sure I agree with what has been said. I know at least 2 people with children with AS and ADHD. I also feel he has been quite sweeping with his statements. As we know all children present differently don't they? I hope you don't mind me posting this bit I thought it was rather interesting. Language disorders do have grey over laps with AS so would sort of include dd as well. The word "aloof" just wouldn't describe dd (well 95% of the time it wouldn't anyway!)