First time with a "friend" telling me it is my parenting

[FlameFromBonfire]

It is bad enough when you think it yourself, but to have another parent (who is meant to be a friend) say it is down to my crap parenting... feel like hell

DH thinks DD is fine, but doesn't see her with other children, know what "normal" 4 yr olds are like.

I sway between it being my parenting, to AS.

HV is your basic chocolate teapot.

I've just done a signpost profile thingy and sooo much makes sense with DD.

I am 95% sure it is AS, even if she is at the very low end of the spectrum.

All of this cropped up today because DD regularly refuses to say hello to my friend or her DD (which upsets her DD understandably), and I am clearly a terrible mother for "letting" her be rude and get away with it.

She just doesn't get that when people say hello to you, you say hello back regardless of the mood you are in at the time.

She must be fine apparently because she has no problem socialising - but what they see as no problem socialising, I see as her just assuming that everyone feels the same way that she does - she wants to play on the slide so she assumes that everyone else does too and announces that is the plan. Other children (thankfully) seem to see it as her being outgoing and like it atm.

I don't know. Maybe it is all down to my parenting, and there is some method I haven't tried (naughty stairs, time out, distraction, pasta, treats, smacking have all failed ), all I know is that I cannot force a 4 yr old to say hello - she sinks into herself and either refuses to look at anyone or sobs her heart out.

There are only so many battles I will fight a day - I tend to opt for tears over hair being tied up (I can't tell if it actually hurts or it is routine now) rather than making her unhappy in the playground.

Maybe if I was a much firmer parent she would be fine.

I wish I could believe that in my heart, because then I would be able to see a way clear of it, a life where she doesn't have to either constantly think about how to act or the alternative life of everyone thinking she is rude.

Maybe as she gets older I can explain to her more that this is how we greet people, but right now, I'm having no luck.

Doubting myself has been bad enough, but to have friend say it too.....

Message withdrawn

My dd would never say hello or goodbye at 4. Just about manages it at 7! She is totally NT. Really this says more about your'friend' than about your child!

flame i have no idea but about as, but i think 4 might be too young for pasta. have you tried using sweets or chocolate instead?

She loved the pasta, but only for things she wanted to do Much more than sweets

Hi flame, I don't know enough about your situation but I can tell you my DS1 (age 4) is another one who never says hello or goodbye.

He also displays other odd behaviour which I have posted about and found support on mn.

FWIW, I don't feel like he has an SN although some of his behaviours are quite strange.

If it's of any help or interest to you, here is my thread from yesterday if you want a look.

did you take pasta away when she didn't do something you asked? a lot of people find pasta only works if you use it positively, so give it for good things she's done, but she just doesn't get any if she doesn't do something rather than take a piece away.

Just commented on it

We did a mix with the pasta - I found it more effective to just give as praise because any suggestion of taking it away sent her into such a meltdown it was a nightmare. Then you have the whole borderline with bribery issue though

All the behaviour type things (pasta/time out etc) work fine for any of her "normal" things iyswim - so if it is for refusing to tidy/hitting her brother etc she is fine with punishments, it helps her behaviour in future etc. It is the things that seem more AS based that they have no affect on whatsoever.

have you been to the gp about your concerns?

Just the HV so far, I'm going to make a list over the weekend and try to see my gp on weds

Ds says hello to about 20 children each morning on way to kindy - only about 50% say hello back (would be same age as your child). None of the parents make them say hello - most just model the behaviour they would like to see - brightly saying hello themselves.

When a child gets in with a hello first - ds doesn't know what to do!

So the hello thing in itself isn't worth letting your friend make you feel like crap about about. However it's this with all the other things that mean you should see your GP. IYSWIM.

Meemar, just looked at your thread from yesterday. All of the traits you describe seem quite normal to me. My DS's have had all of these traits and it has not crossed my mind to think these have been anything to worry about.

My DD is 4 and you can't make her do or say anything if she doesn't want to.

Take no notice of this woman. She obviously isn't a true friend.

Hope you get what help/support you want.

My son has also gone through as stage of refusing to say hello, goodbye or thank you. Whether your child is NT or AS, I don't think it is remotely in your power to force her to say hello just because she ought to, and at 4 and a half, she is still too young to understand quite how rude she could be perceived as being by her friends. It's something some children just seem to know they have some power over and can be truly embarrassing about without you being able to do anything about it!

I have finally succeeded in getting Ben to say hello most of the time, but now he does it in a funny voice, just to show me that he's still in control...

Thanks frankie I don't think I was ever worried that he had a form of SN as his development is not delayed in any way. But am aware that he has behaviours that may fall into the label of 'anxious child'. Talking to others on mn has actually reassured me that these types of behaviour can be quite common for his age and he'll probably grow out of it.

Flame - glad you found the thread useful. Whatever the root cause of your DD's behaviour I imagine it must be pretty hard to have a friend judge your parenting for it.

Grrrr at your so-called friend, Flame.

In some ways your dd does sound similar to my ds2 (4yrs & AS) but I don't honestly know how much is due to ds2's age, his personality or his AS. When things go wrong he either goes into what is known in our house as "Crumple Mode" where he 'crumples' to the ground in tears, or he gets angry with himself and starts hitting himself.

You said in your OP "Maybe if I was a much firmer parent she would be fine." Obviously I don't know your dd at all but I can tell you that with ds2 the best approach is to pick your battles carefully. It's a bit like walking permanently on a tightrope, balancing ds2's needs with other people's expectations of what they think he should be doing.

Don't let your 'friend' get to you. xx

Blimey, she does sound a very normal 4 year old to me. Your friend is a cow and very insensitive. Kids of that age won't speak to order, particularly if they are shy. i still have to prompt my two DDs to greet people appropriately and they are 6.5. I would try not to worry if I were you.

I agree Flame that it might be neither AS nor your parenting! I found it hard to "get" those kinds of things as a child - I didn't and don't have AS, I was just was very introspective and literal-minded. Learning all the nuances of how social interation works (especially in groups of girls I often think) is hard work and comes more easily to some of us than to others - just like other skills and aptitudes.

Your friend is barking. Nothing at all unusual about small children not feeling comfortable about saying 'hello' to order. Whether your dd has SN or not, the embarrassment/reluctance wrt greetings is entirely normal and not something that the poor thing should be harassed about.

I do appreciate that children do sometimes get upset if other children won't say hello or goodbye - see it with my ds and his friends on occasion. But it's no reason to lay into a reluctant child.

I do think Frankie3 is right when she said people see shyness almost as an illness to be cured - society seems to value extroversion much more highly than introversion for some reason, even though both are entirely valid, normal human traits, with benefits and downsides. Recruitment strategies routinely favour extroverts, for instance. Mad. A world made up entirely of extroverts would be a terrible thing to behold! No-one would be listening to anyone else, for a start...

Either my friend has found MN (unlikely, she isn't online), my other friend caught on to me being unhappy, or she thought better of what she said on Friday... just dropped DD back to me and told me all about how lovely, polite, well behaved and funny she was

Thats great flame

I think that critizing your parenting is a sign of your so called friend's insecurity. A lot of children of this age are extremely shy without being autisic.

My little boy is nearly six and he often doesn't say hello back. He isn't autisic, but he is hard of hearing. His behaviour was extremely challenaging until we knew about his poor hearing. A lot of people told me it was my bad parenting.

If you have concerns about your daughter's development then I suggest that you ask for a referal to a community paediatrian. Your GP cannot refuse to refer you. I don't think health visitors have much understanding of developmental issues.

Our paediatrian was fanastic and has really helped my son. My son had physio to help with walking and now you would never know he had a problem. He has hearing aids which have really helped his speech. He is doing well at school.

how did the docs appointment go?