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Original poster

First time with a "friend" telling me it is my parenting

52 replies

FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 13:52

It is bad enough when you think it yourself, but to have another parent (who is meant to be a friend) say it is down to my crap parenting... feel like hell

DH thinks DD is fine, but doesn't see her with other children, know what "normal" 4 yr olds are like.

I sway between it being my parenting, to AS.

HV is your basic chocolate teapot.

I've just done a signpost profile thingy and sooo much makes sense with DD.

I am 95% sure it is AS, even if she is at the very low end of the spectrum.

All of this cropped up today because DD regularly refuses to say hello to my friend or her DD (which upsets her DD understandably), and I am clearly a terrible mother for "letting" her be rude and get away with it.

She just doesn't get that when people say hello to you, you say hello back regardless of the mood you are in at the time.

She must be fine apparently because she has no problem socialising - but what they see as no problem socialising, I see as her just assuming that everyone feels the same way that she does - she wants to play on the slide so she assumes that everyone else does too and announces that is the plan. Other children (thankfully) seem to see it as her being outgoing and like it atm.

I don't know. Maybe it is all down to my parenting, and there is some method I haven't tried (naughty stairs, time out, distraction, pasta, treats, smacking have all failed ), all I know is that I cannot force a 4 yr old to say hello - she sinks into herself and either refuses to look at anyone or sobs her heart out.

There are only so many battles I will fight a day - I tend to opt for tears over hair being tied up (I can't tell if it actually hurts or it is routine now) rather than making her unhappy in the playground.

Maybe if I was a much firmer parent she would be fine.

I wish I could believe that in my heart, because then I would be able to see a way clear of it, a life where she doesn't have to either constantly think about how to act or the alternative life of everyone thinking she is rude.

Maybe as she gets older I can explain to her more that this is how we greet people, but right now, I'm having no luck.

Doubting myself has been bad enough, but to have friend say it too.....

OP posts:
Original poster
FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 13:52

Sorry for the essay

OP posts:
Megglevampire · 02/11/2007 13:53

I hsave no experience but how utterly insensitive for her to say this.

I couldn't not answer your post when I read it.

dustystar · 02/11/2007 13:54

Oh poor you {{{hugs}}}

Does your friend realise that you think dd has AS?

Spagblog · 02/11/2007 13:55

Oh poor you.
Is she shy too? It might just be that she is only 4, and shyness.

I think it is unfair to suggest that your parenting skills have anything to do with it.

Original poster
FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 13:56

She does, but she doesn't "get" it - I think she is thinking rain man

She probably also thinks I am just making up excuses because I have no dx

OP posts:
alyblackcat · 02/11/2007 13:57

I think you are right to pick your battles, there are so many....

I think your friend is making this situation worse. How old is her DC, old enought to be upset herself or old enough to be told she is upset by her mother? (iyswim) If your friend is making a big deal out of it no wonder your DD will go 'into herself' - most kids hate to be forced to do anything.

Personally, and I'm a very mean mummy, I think this is nothing worth punishing. I think if the pressure was taken off the situation, ti may just resolve itself.

Original poster
FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 13:57

Thank you Meg.

Spag - she decides if she is shy on the day Sometimes she goes in all guns blazing, other times clings to my leg - no rhyme nor reason

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Blu · 02/11/2007 13:57

Flame...sorry, i haven't followed any threads about your dd...but I know loads of 4 year olds who won't say 'hello' to order, and also assume that everyone else has 100% the same agenda as they do...some children clock this earlier, some by the time they are 5 - as far as i can see the first year at school is geared largely to 'behavioural' issues and getting children to understand about sharing and that others have a different choice or thought.

It sounds as if you are being very very hard on yourself - and that you have a very insensitive and rather smug freind!

But as i said, i haven't followeed any other threads by you.

Spagblog · 02/11/2007 13:58

Bless her. What signpost profile thingy did you use? I have another friend worrying about the same thing.

Original poster
FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 13:58

They are both 4 1/2 - old enough to know when another child isn't being friendly iyswim. Her friend is genuinely upset (had a thread about the friendship issue yesterday )

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LoveMyGirls · 02/11/2007 13:58

Sorry you are feeling like this, did you explain to your friend how you feel? Can you change docs/ hv? so you have more support?
I believe in choosing battles too and do agree that if you have tried everything and it makes no odds then maybe you need to look further into what is really going on.

The bottom line is that you are her mum and you love her loads (or you wouldnt have posted this) and you are doing your best for your child thats all anyone can ask. ((((((Flame))))))

justaboutdrippingblood · 02/11/2007 13:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

katiebirdie · 02/11/2007 13:59

well firstly Flame, you sound anything but a "terrible mother"! You obviously care a great deal about your DD and her happiness. Having no experience of AS I'm not sure what advice to offer but would it be worthwhile speaking to her nursery and asking if they have any concerns? They could hopefully refer you on.

Your friend sounds insensitive. If her only gripe with your child is she doesn't say hello she should get a grip.

dustystar · 02/11/2007 13:59

I've run into the 'rainman' ignorance too. I know some people think that I am making a big deal out of DS behaviour and that it isn't ADHD or AS and like your dd he doesn't have a dx. But i KNOW he is on the spectrum. In lots of ways he seems like most of his peers but there are lots of little differences that are obvious if you know what to look for.

cestlavie · 02/11/2007 14:00

Poor you but honestly wouldn't really worry about it - she is only 4. Kids are difficult little creatures; it may very well just be just be one of those things, e.g. her way of showing you she's the boss.

This may not be a very good analogy but when I was little and friends came round I used to hide behind the curtains until my mum physically dragged me out to meet them!

RosaTransylvania · 02/11/2007 14:00

My NT DD1 is very very shy and self-conscious. At age four she would not speak to anyone, even grandparents without a lot of warming up. She is 10 now and still has a problem around adults she is not that familiar with. I have put up with a lot of shit over the years about her 'bad manners'. If adults are too stupid and unimaginative to understand what it feels like for a child to be forced to interact when they are shrivelling up with self-consciousness, then they are the rude ones IMO. You are a fine mother.
I don't know if your daughter is ASD or not from what you describe here she may just be a very sensitive person, but you sound like a great mother who is sensitive to her needs. Don't doubt yourself. Your DD needs you to protect her, not force her into stuff she is not comfortable with. Your friend doesn't sound like much of a friend btw.

Original poster
FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 14:01

signpost

I had to put in her age, what I thought the problem was, whether we had dx or not, and it says about what they are like for the age iyswim. It was good seeing it for the right age, most seem to talk about older children. The only thing that didn't really fit with it is her language which is delayed rather than advanced.

Blu - it is the age thing that makes me swing back and forth with whether or not there is an issue. It is mild if it is there, but again, it could just be 4yr oldness.

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maggotandjerry · 02/11/2007 14:07

Please don't feel bad about this. You could be describing my nephew who wouldn't say hello or goodbye or give kisses to grandparents (or anyone) or even say thank you for presents for years.

My sister and BIL were tearing their hair out over it. He was always in trouble for it to the point where it became quite distressing as his being in trouble would dominate every family gathering. Eventually all the rest of the family made excuses for him so that he wouldn't be forced into greeting people (he found it particularly hard when he had to enter a room full of people for the first time even if those people were just his grandparents).

I think as he was the first grandchild there was a lot of pressure on him and he's fundamentally quite unsociable (like other members of his family LOL) and shy despite being very popular iykwim. It was the pressure of being centre stage.

He's a very difficult child anyway and his younger brother is always kissing everyone and finding life very easy. He's much more "tortured"

He's now 5 and will grudgingly say hello but now I even get a kiss when I see him and he is honestly the most adorable thing, foulness and all! He is difficult but I think that's because he's a grumpy old man in a child's body. With time my sister and bil have taught him to do all this as a routine and he still doesn't love it but he's ok.

I'm sure if you did a diagnosis on him you might have him come out on the AS. (I once sat down next to him when he was about 2 and he moved! That's how early it started). But really it doesn't matter because he is sociable at school and is doing fine and turning into his own little person, grumpiness included.

Your dd sounds quite charismatic (like my nephew). Children do what she wants to do - same for my nephew. That's a powerful tool in life and you can help her to channel it.

Don't doubt yourself, just keep up your efforts to make sure she understands what she is supposed to do. When she feels more in control of the situation she'll do it. The fact that she's in control around other children and manages to attract them is a good thing.

Sorry - long!

Original poster
FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 14:08

My friend is very bolshy and confident, which I think may be the other problem too - she can't imagine what just basic shyness is like (if it is just that). I have had years of shyness and can remember the feeling of people trying to make me be cajoled into speaking - it sucks!

The school have been lovely - they didn't quibble over whether or not she had issues, they just listened to me explain what I felt caused problems (she can't deal with unexpected change and we had huuuuuuuuuuge issues when they changed her reading book without telling her), they asked what sets her off, how she reacts, and how to deal with it, and that was it. Understanding and easy.

Part of me holds back from contacting NAS and GP because I have the niggling doubt about it being parenting/age etc and me wasting everyone's time when there are people with huge problems out there that need the help so much more.

OP posts:
dustystar · 02/11/2007 14:10

You will not be wasting anyones time regardless of whether or not it is AS.

katiebirdie · 02/11/2007 14:18

I can understand you being worried but I would def have a chat with GP as it means AS can be diagnosed or ruled out and you can possibly get some support in dealing with the issues causing the shyness etc. You def don't need bolshy friends pointing the finger at this point - make sure you keep coming back here for support

pooka · 02/11/2007 14:18

A friend's dd is 4 and does exactly the same. She is completely NT, but just not into saying hello and goodbye. That's the way she is at the moment, and there is no way in the world that I'd ever expect her to be made to say hello for the gratification of my dd.

In fact, in my opinion you have to pick your battles carefully. Forcing any child, NT or with SN, is just possibly going to make it more of an issue and more of a "block'.

I think your friend is being unfair and overly pushy. What you expect your dd to do, and how you get her to do it, is entirely your decision. I think it's incredibly rude to comment.

justaboutdrippingblood · 02/11/2007 14:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
FlameFromBonfire · 02/11/2007 14:23

I'll sort out the GP for next Wednesday (DS has nursery so I can talk with no distractions).

I keep threatening to do it and never get there (for the reasons already said!)

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frankie3 · 02/11/2007 14:24

I get really upset that shyness is almost seen as an illness to be cured. My DS is very shy and will also "freeze" and not say hello or thank you to people sometimes. I do encourage him to say hello etc, but only occasionally really tell him off for it, as I know he does not do it to be naughty, and putting too much pressure on him can make it worse. I am trying to build up his confidence and not to knock it down. I know how he feels as I was also like this as a child. I once even wet myself at a friends house as I was too shy to ask where the toilet was! But, I am not like this now as my confidence increased and I changed as I grew older.

I know that it is essential for children to learn basic manners, but I do get annoyed by the general attitude today that children should not be shy.