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SN children

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Original poster

What would you do and how would you expect others to react?

100 replies

Freckle · 29/10/2007 09:15

Have come over to the special needs board for a bit of clarification. I don't have any SN children (and I have tried to include SN in my talk board, but it won't let me).

I went out for the day last week with my 3 boys and my sister and her son. At lunchtime we went to a Pizza Hut for lunch. Whilst standing in the queue waiting to be seated, another couple entered behind us with their son (possibly aged 10/11). The boy was very noisy and it soon became clear to me that he was probably quite severely autistic (in as far as I know what that is). His father struggled to control him physically - he'd elbowed me and cannoned into me about 4 times. The mother apologised but I said it didn't matter.

They were seated quite quickly as it probably seemed the best thing to do because the child clearly was struggling with queueing. Throughout all this he was screaming and trying to get away from his dad. He continued screaming once they were seated.

As it turned out, we had to leave because they couldn't accommodate a party of 6 (it was quite busy), but my sister said that at least 3 other parties followed us out, complaining at the behaviour of the child.

My query is, if you have a child behaving like this (and I appreciate that he cannot help it), would you have carried on trying to have your meal out? The mother looked very distressed and the father was desperately trying to physically control the boy. Also, how would you have expected (or liked perhaps) other people to have reacted?

If they had been able to accommodate us, I would have stayed and had our meal (although my sister said that she wouldn't have done so), but clearly others were not prepared to do that.

I can understand the family wanting to have a normal day out, but I'm not sure any of them was enjoying the experience and it was probably made worse by other people leaving the restaurant because of their son's actions.

OP posts:

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:16

I used to care about people leaving roons etc- but now tbh shiny I feel like you. I just no longer care. If people can't cope with ds1 in the same room for a short period of time I really, really just don't care. As you said we have it 24/7 for years stretching ahead. It was actually very liberating getting to that stage. I decided the rhino hide must have taken completel hold. But it does mean that I can act for ds1, in the way that best suits him.

I used to want to educate people as well, but I can't even be bothered with that anymore. IME people either get it (in which case I love them) or don't (in which case I keep away from them). And which group they fall in has very little to do with me or ds1. Life's too short to try and make people 'get it' (and its a waste of time).

Blandmum · 29/10/2007 15:19

Fiofio, ds (mostly NT with a touch of dyspraxia!) used to sniff people!

Now he just sniff close members of the family, which tends to make life less exciting.

This is an interesting topic. I live in an area which used to be dominated by a very large, very old asylum. the people in the twon were mostly emplyed by the asylum, or knew someone working there. So when residents of the asylum used to do some 'odd' things, no-one in the area would turn a hair. Real care in a real community, I think.

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:19

It's a tantrum by someone with possibly less understanding than a toddler. My 2 year old can wait his turn far more easily than my 8 year old.

I don't judge people for leaving restaurants. I do judge people who think that children with learning difficulties should be able to behave appropriately but ultimately I don't care if they leave (empty restaurant suits us tbh).

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:20

gawd I've just remembered fio- ds1 used to sniff people's chests. PMSL.

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:22

Actually thinking about it I'm now at the stage where I find rooms of fanjo sinffers, bum sniffers and breast grabbers far more relaxing than rooms of neurotypical kids demanding attention or hamming stuff up, or complaining about things. DS2's friends make me nervous, ds1's schoolmates are fab.

Lil · 29/10/2007 15:23

Yurt your view is completely understandable but is it fair though, not to care about anyone else because you have got it tough?

My dd has a serious long term illness, and therefore lots of doctors appointments and hospital stays. I know I have a right to take off as much time as I need to from my job, but I try bloody hard to make the appointments outside work hours and to work when poss. Why? Because you have to take other peoples feelings into account, if you want them to sympathise with you in return.

Blandmum · 29/10/2007 15:24

Funnily enough I have a very similar conversation with a LSW today, We both agreed that we had masses of patience for children with SEN who find it hard to understand/ learn/ do stuff. What irritates us most is bright NT kids who just can't be arsed to do any bloody work!

Dinosaur · 29/10/2007 15:31

Lil, sorry but you just have no idea, have you?

Yurt is not saying that she doesn't care about other people, she is saying that she has had to develop such a thick skin that she is no longer bothered by what others think of her and her DS. And it is heartbreaking that she has had to develop that thick skin.

FioFio · 29/10/2007 15:32

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TerrorMater · 29/10/2007 15:35

I used to teach a boy with DS who regularly grabbed my breasts. I would firmly remove his hand and say "no". He stopped eventually. He was a 15 year old bag of hormones with no idea that it was socially unacceptable.

I also taught a 16 year old with no SN who also grabbed my breasts. He was excluded.

One made me feel hugely uncomfortable, one didn't at all. Isn't it all about intent?

Dinosaur · 29/10/2007 15:36

Heheh! I've been away for ages, Fio, but it's nice to be back...

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:40

Oh just typed a reply and lost it.

I dio consdier other people. I don't take ds1 to the ritz for example, but I really don't care if someone in MCD's is embarrassed by him being there. He doesn't attack people- he can be loud, and he can be very unconventional- if people can't cope with that (given that we choose where we go carefully- wouldn't do the cinema for example were his behaviour may disturb the paying punters) then I see it as there problem.

Other things I play by ear. Our dps' girl (who was involved in the bottom sniffing incident) is getting married this year- we're invited to a special pre wedding service she's having - and she's said she's quite happy for unconventional behavuiour to abound (and has invited others with LD's). So we'll go, although generally there would be no way we'd go near church with him. I don't care there what the other guests think- if the bride wants him there he has as much right as anyone else imo.

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:40

Agree terrormater- that's the point I was trying to make about tantruming toddlers and older children/adults with learning difficulties.

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:42

Ha ha fio

FioFio · 29/10/2007 15:43

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yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:45

er...

Lil · 29/10/2007 15:45

"Lil, sorry but you just have no idea, have you? "

no need to be patronising Dino.

Yurt said she's got to the stage where she doesn't care if the people leave the restaurant. Since this was the whole point of the thread it is fair to question how you can expect people to sympathise with the predicament of the SN parents, when they've lost any will to sympathise back.

FioFio · 29/10/2007 15:46

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Lil · 29/10/2007 15:47

yurt are you related to JimJam from years back?

FioFio · 29/10/2007 15:47

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Blandmum · 29/10/2007 15:49

I think it is more a case of having the will to sympathise beaten out of them, tbh. Sadly.

If you spend all day, every day coping with severe sn, the world takes on a very different complexion. And at the end of all of that, expecting them to ooze compassion to people who don't have that degree of complexity in their lives is possibly just a little to much to ask for,

My dh is dying. If people can't cope with that, and expect me to emote for them, to make them feel better, tough shit. I don't have the energy to care any more.

It must get like that if you have children with SN. If other people can't cope, well tough. the onus is on the people not affected to make allowances

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:49

BUt what other option is there.

Either I (a) care terribly which means that ds1 would never go out

I (b) take the view that providing ds1 isn't physically hurting anyone else (which he has never done out and about), that not being able to deal with unconventional behaviour is their problem, not ds1's and he has as much right to be there as anyone else.

I used to get upset, and want to educate people. I've found that is always a waste of time and energy, so I choose not to care.

I think it was Donna Williams who said to me that I should make up cards saying 'don't worry eccentricity isn't contagious' on one side, with a more detailed explanation on the other.

yurt1 · 29/10/2007 15:52

I think my approach now is 'this is ds1. This is what he is like. He's not actually asking anythying of you. If you can't cope with that, tough. Leave us alone to get on with it'.

Luckily there are plenty of people out there who are quite happy to be involved with an unconventional family. They are enough for me. I have zero energy or inclination to deal with the others.

PMSL fio.

Dinosaur · 29/10/2007 15:53

Fio - lol! I was sitting here at my desk thinking - JJ, she can't mean she doesn't know....

FioFio · 29/10/2007 15:55

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