34 month old Ds with speech and language delay/possible autism?

[Mum2prince]

This may be a lengthy post, so thank you in advance for anyone who reads and replies .

My nearly 3 year old Ds has been delayed in reaching his speech and language milestones since he was 18months and I've been concerned about ASD ever since then. He crawled walked and babbled on time and we even thought he was advanced as he would clap at the appropriate time if you sang "if your happy and you know it" at only 6 months. I went to university when he was 9 minths old and my mum looked after him during the day and my DH had him in the evening till I came home 4 days out of the week. He got alot of interaction as he is the 1st grandchild but the TV was always on in the background and he watches it for the entire day ( complete peppa pig addict). I regret this so much and now feel like the crappest mum ever . Fast forward to when he was nearly turning 2 I realised he was more placid than other toddlers his age, very happy boy but no real communication other than playing tickle/chasing games. Although he would comfort you if you were cry ing or hurt from 12months old and still does. His receptive language then was limited to NO, stop and give me a kiss or hug. He also had problems chewing food, he would eat but not swallow and lived on drinking milk. At that point I took him to the gp and got referral for ears, speech therapy and pead.

Audiologist said he passed the test for the most part but wanted him back in 6 months to see how he was because it wasn't completly clear. Pead gave him some toys and said he wasn't showing any pretend play with doll or tea set (he didn't have at home to play with) so was concerned about social communication, but on the other hand could see he had good eye contact and listened to instructions for instance wanted to touch fan but stopped because I gave him "That look" and also sat down when I told him to. She also wanted him to come back in 6months or so.

I found out soon after that i was pregnant and I have hyperemesis graviderum (severe sickness) and was hospitalised often and when i wasn't in hospital I couldn't care for him thank god for my family who took charge and let me rest. It was a really hard time for me not being able to help him though I knew he needed me . After having ds2 I realised ds1 improving, singing every nursery rhyme under the sun, saying some words like baby (his brother), goodbye, good night. He now has about 30 words, the only problem is he won't say the without promoting, I always have to say "what's this ds1" and he will say "apple" for example. But doesn't answer any questions. Doesn't say yes and very rarely says no. He says stop all the time though if he is annoyed by you for example creaming his face before nursery . His receptive language is far better and will respond to what you say woth actions for example do you want a bath? He will go to the bathroom and undress. Do you want a sweet (His multivitamin) will get excited and laugh and wait to receive it.

My main concerns are now his lack of pointing, and his hand leading to what he wants, he will take me to the garden if he wants to play outside, or take me to his play area if he wants me to play with him. He won't point to things of interest outside but will follow a point when i say look at that dog or bird etc. All red flags I know. He goes to nursery every afternoon for 3 hours and soon will be attending 1 full day a week. Nursery seem to think it's just a speech delay as they have seen many cases sometimes worse than ds1 turn out to be just that. But he still won't play with children, will play alongside and will watch them play but won't initiate.

NHS has been useless and he had one block of group speech therapy that turned out to be useless. We then went abroad for the summer for 2 months to visit family. Learnt a few more words not much, still hand leading but receptive language much better at this point following instructions better also.

Nursery have noticed the changed in him, I started to relax more and just help him progress by doing lots of SLT excersises at home with him. Booked him a private speech assesment recently and she says although he is slowly progressing with language she sees the lack of joint attention. He was doing the puzzle and saying pig but was not looking up at her. This has made me worried sick all over again.

Oh and also has a few 'quirks' very rarely wil flap hands when excited but will stop when told to clap instead. Also he has started to line up his Lego and sing "there were 10 in the bed and the little one said roll over" and push them off the table one by one.. don't know if this is pretend play or repetitive play. Still won't pretend play unless prompted though he did pretend play at the private salt appointment. She said she is worried about his eyesight (lazy eye, squints while reading snooping at pictures) also advised me to follow up audiologist. At this point in so concerned I've booked him in for eye and ENT dr probably for beginning of NOV. I have also decided to start 25 hours of ABA therapy as I don't want to wait for his to take ages with diagnosis as he has problems communicating and is still very behind on language. Despite what private salt said (though I'm glad she did as it has now lit fire under my bum to move things along) me and nursery were impressed with his slow but steady progress and just put his odd behaviours down to severe speech and language delay.

Soooo sorry for the long post, I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or has been through something similar. I've been worried sick I'm sure I'll feel better once therapy gets started but right now it hurts to see him so far behind his peers. He's very affectionate and happy (though his frustration when he can't tell me what he wants is heartbreaking) , has no preference for routine. Loves his grandparents, eats okay (won't eat veg) and sleeps well. Still not potty trained though that is due to my laziness as I'm putting it off till Xmas holidays as I've got alot on woth newborn and uni.

@lingle

@glamour firstly I'd like to say your son has come such a long way with minimal intervention (intensive therapy) and it's great he has a place at the S&L nursery. I've just realised we have one near by to us but don't know if my ds will meet the criteria as it stated a child cannot have any hearing problems, or ASD it must be a 'pure' S&L issue. The NHS salt will be assessing him again after half term to see if he will be suitable but i just don't know myself.

The diagnosis itself I've come to realise can be helpful when ds is nearer to school age and could possible get extra help and therapies in school. I can completly understand the crying, I've done my fair share of sobbing, insomnia, anxiety over what the future would hold. Then when I see improvements I get on with it reminding myself that I love ds1 regardless. I even stopped comparing him to his peers as he is very clearly behind and it's not fair on him, I also remind myself of the many kids who had problems and caught up completly at age 5 or so. But then it takes a professional to agree with on what I point out and I'm in tears again. I'm now emotionally drained and tired by all this yo-yoing and have decided to just accept ds needs help and not focus on anything other than how to help him. Regarding ABA therapy I will PM you, it was the private salt that mentioned it would be good for him regardless of dx. But im struggling to find ones near me of a reasonable cost.

When you mention tv watching and ur ds, I completely understand the struggle and have been there. I really put my ds language problems (dx or not) down to early tv watching. His attention was terrible, he had no imagination (why would he, tv is doing all the hard work for him!? Only after researching that it says dc should have screen time age 2+ and even then it should be limited! Not having the TV on means no me time unless he's in bed, he is losing weight as he would sit and eat meals properly.. now it's 2 bites and he's off. Very hard to keep entertained on long car rides waiting rooms etc but im learning to cope and try not to go to those places without someone there to swap over with me once I'm tired of walking him around and playing.

It's also made him communicate more even if it's just winging or crying if he's tired, because with the TV on he would happily just watch it all day. He still very often pulls my hand and asks for peppa or George but he is slowly understanding that is no more.

Regarding your ds behaivour at the play date, I say don't worry too much about it and automatically link it to ASD. He's still so very young and even though he's improving every day he doesn't have communication skills to express his feelings without having a tantrum sometimes. I know plenty of articulate 4 year olds who still tantrum like they are 2 only difference is they tell you why! So your dc could have been having a bad day as we all do. I'm also guilty of looking into everything my ds does and I see other 'NT' kids doing the same, sometimes I realise my ds is better behaved even with his issues and frustration!

The fact we are on here brainstorming what could be wrong woth our dc, trying to help and come up with strategies and still manage to make and attend all the appointments that come along with it. Despite feeling like our brains are scrambled from overwhelming information on internet and opinions along with juggling our everyday lives and relationships, commitments and other dc. Shows our children have a great chance of reaching their potential, we won't give up on them!

Sometimes I see other parents with similar dc and they are so relaxed and say 'oh he just can't speak.. He will be fine' and there I am writing a list of all my ds problems and sobbing my eyes out. I feel guilty and sometimes think i am too negative.. But then I realise it's only cause I care. Sorry for rambling on.. just wanted you to know you are not alone. And it's hard, and from what I've read in mumsnet, it only gets easier dx or no dx.

hugs

@JessicaKenny2018 I'm so sorry to hear that and it angers me how these nurseries, health visitors and peads let dc down. Atleast you are his advocate and doing a great job and are on the ball. Makes me sad for some parents who might not know what you do. With my son's nursery I really don't know what they do with him as he has his coat and bag by the time I come get him and the have vinyl on the glass doors and windows so they can't let us peak in. I do know however they did nothing to help him last year a had trouble getting feed back from his key worker. Now I'm not pregnant and sick I'm there rain or shine waiting for feed back but even then I can only hope the are telling the truth. But like lingle said I will be moving him next year to a nursery with a primary school attached to see if they can carry on with what we are trying so hard to maintain at home! My younger sister is 12 she came with me to pick ds from nursery one after noon and saw they put tv on for children and she had a go at the nursery nurse . She was gobsmacked and told them ds is allowed no screen time and the lady replied with ' it's only for pick up, for children to wind down' I thought to myself wind down??!!! Last I checked reading time was winding down! I just reminded them that ds1 is strictly not allowed and kept my composure. This makes me realise I hope he gets into the S&L specialist nursery I'm so sure he will benefit from the constant speech targets and interaction.

I am surprised and touched that others have read my old posts too. Thank you for the kind words. I do get private messages about once a year It's lovely, because at the time, the amount of time I spent on this SN board was putting a bit of distance between me and my husband, but now I know that the time on here was time well spent, for me and others. It's also nice because at the time I had to walk the streets using my real name and smiling a lot but really inside it felt like lingle was the real me and this was the only place I could be the real me :(. It's one of the two things in my life that I know have genuinely been of use to the world (the other is my orchestra, which ultimately came out of all this, and I will post later with the general update so kindly requested.).

@lingle this might sound crazy but i feel I know you and your dc. I read your concerns about them and then read how well they were doing and it made me smile when sometimes nothing else would (almost like a proud aunty). And you have been helping people on MN for years and your words really mean alot to us that are in a similar position and I can't thank you enough . I understand the distance it causes to be on these boards with loved ones, as I'm frequently told by family members, especially dh to stay off these type of threads as I would scare myself reading and comparing and self diagnosing poor ds. The fear would paralysed me and made me not be able to even speak to poor ds let alone help him (anxiety) . But i feel empowered writing my own thread and listening to others and getting your advice is more valuable (And much more detailed) than some of the advice I have got from private Salts. You are an amazing person, and take all the time you need to reply. Wishing you and your dc well.. hugs

"@lingle this might sound crazy but i feel I know you and your dc"

You might! one person who private-messaged me turned out to be an old work colleague!

can I just repost some old threads that I think may help others. It was lovely to see @totalchaos and @moondog mentioned.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/895654-the-famous-Moondog-quot-calendar-quot-post-re-teaching-time

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/752062-another-receptive-language-programme-on-the-radio-with-the-annoying-bits-taken-out
I love this one because this was the one where the person who'd made the programme came on to the thread to apologise for patronising us!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/750157-Radio-programmes-on-receptive-language-delay-www-teachmetotalk-com

I put these threads together because we all found the comparisons to "normal" milestones too paralysing/depressing. It stopped us getting on with what we needed to do.

@lingle I can't thank you enough for these old threads, saves me time digging through archives. The crazy thing is I've read these posts previously and found then ever so helpful and I felt armed with what to do to help ds1. And what's more, the summary you have on Laura's podcast is copied and pasted into my phones notes under "holiday homework" lol. I tried my hardest to work through it while we were away this summer but i just admit I got side tracked woth holiday stuff. BUT I do credit his improvement in receptive language to those notes. Please update us on your journey with your dc when you find time

@mum2prince I'm so sorry to read how distressing all this is for you, I am exactly the same. I would say about the SL nursery unit, if there is one near you, get the ball rolling.

If I can tell you our story... my DS, like yours, hit all the milestones perfectly except speech, and I first started to explore SALT when he was close to 3. Everyone gave me a different take on my DS:
Private SALT 1: won't get into the local SL nursery as he's probably ASD.
Private SALT 2: definitely no red flags for ASD won't get into the local SL nursery as he isn't delayed enough.
Preschool: 'he's started to speak but he just parrots everything, it's ASD'
Educational psychologist: might not be ASD, but he is developing language the same way as ASD children. Needs early intervention.
SL Nursery: He will catch up by July, no SEN in reception, he won't need it, definitely no ECHP, 'but we can't say what will happen when he's 7'.

I can't trust any of the 'experts!' so it's up to me to help my DS. Which I do when I'm not crying. Big hugs to you

@glamour our dc sound so similar! I understand when you say you can't trust the experts to help, I feel the same way as me and dh are going to go through our finances this week to see what we can afford privately as NHS seems to really be letting ds down . There's so much talk of how early intervention is key and not much early intervention available!! sigh on the bright sode u sound like an amazing mum with a bright ds. Sometimes it takes someone from the outside looking in to tell you how strong you are and how well your coping (even though you may not feel you are coping so well), and I can see how hard your fighting for your ds. Because like you said I guess it's upto us to help our dc. hand hold

@Mum2prince thank-you so much for your kind words. We saw the second private SALT for about eight weeks, she was a very nice and locally well renounced under 5s SALT, but her approach was basically the same as Hanen (in the book ‘it takes two to talk’) which is all about the parents using strategies so that’s what I did.

And then I started keeping a diary of things DS had said, ideas and tips I had picked up from whatever the dear Lingle/Lingette/Lougle had written and it’s all a work in progress. She had a really infectious faith that there is much we can do to help our DS’s

@glamour it's so important to keep faith! Please do share any strategies you have noted over time if it's anything different to what I've mentioned above. You can never have too many tips x

In terms of update....
I would say that the famed language explosion happened (finally) in his fourth year. It was very hard work of course in the ways you all know. We were starting from a pretty low point: for instance, he was past his third birthday when I said his name and he repeated it back to me in delight: I realised he thought the word, when said in an inviting tone, meant “let’s play!” :( He didn’t recognise that his name meant him.

Of course, like a leaf that has unfurled unevenly, the language acquisition didn’t solve all our problems. You can’t miss out on all that receptive language for 4 years and then just slip into easy peer group interactions as if all that experience gained by the non SNkids didn’t count. The non-SN kids have had so many more social experiences by that point. But by 5 he could talk.

We deferred the start of reception by a year which helped enormously- it reduced the gulf between him and his peers. He is still in this adopted year-group. This has had no downside and I would recommend it. It was more about adjusting the peer group than the class work side.

I wonder whether he would have “talked anyway”. Broadly, I think yes -it was biological/ genetic in large part. But I am sure his anxiety and fear would have been 1000 times worse if he hadn’t had the support. And of course anxiety can lead to a child adopting many poor strategies.....

In primary school he tended to tag on to one friend and be a follower. Trying to recreate the big brother he had at home. There were many painful times on the playground. There’san old thread somewhere about how the playground is the war zone where you fight using feigned nonchalance and clenched teeth.... there was a lot of that. Sometimes I had to “Trade” to get enough social experiences.....lots of people wanted their kids to be friends with his big brother and I made it clear we came as a package deal.

Luckily there were two great families on the street and so he was accepted in a little neighbourhood gang. This was largely thanks to those families having nannies -wise quiet older women whose company was infinitely more relaxing than that of playground peers. Almost as good as having cousins (which he doesn’t have)

The academic side of things went smoothly. After all, school is mostly about teaching extended pattern recognition and logical inference and that’s what I guess he’d been doing with all that music.....

In year4 he was friendless for a term or so -hung out with big brothers friends.but in year 5/6 the friendship stuff got loads better -year 6 was great! I allowed myself to stop worrying for days, weeks even months at a time. By year six he would go to the neighbours’ houses without big brother. And go to friends’ houses too. I guess by then the fear of being asked a question he couldn’t answer was slowly fading.

By about 11 we started having conversations about stuff he finds hard: (“I can’t do explaining”). He remembered so much stuff from the early days....
Secondary school has been fine. He is well-organised and well-liked by his teachers. I wasn’t that happy with his classmates but that was just luck of the draw. There have been ebbs and flows in the friendships. But within “normal” range for teenagers. He can be neglected socially but isn’t bullied. He’s better with people he has known for several years. Today he got up, took himself to football practice, came home, went to an acting class,went to a friends house to skateboard, went to the park to play more football with other friends, and came home at 7! Football is great because it’s a game with rules that buys you acceptance into a group in a non-linguistic way

He says he sometimes doesn’t grasp what his friends are saying to each other especially if there are 3 of them and it’s quick banter/meet-up planning.

I’m very proud of him :) my husband says “I never get tired of hearing him talk”

Have you tried a SALT who follows the “ Hanen Approach”?

We tried SALT before this both nhs and private but my son didn’t really engage well however since finding one who follows this Hanen approach the results have been unbelievable. She also teaches me the “more than words” program. It’s very simple and honestly the results are truly amazing.

My son will now play with a doll, has started to share with adults and siblings and his speech and language has improved which has in turn improved his behaviour at nursery. Socially he really struggles - prefers to play alone with number puzzles - his lashing out at children when they come close has reduced greatly but not completely.

Tips she said that really helped.

Try not to ask questions make statements. Ie instead of “do you want an apple?” Point and say in a clear expressive voice “a big red apple.... a nice juicy apple..... apples are delicious.....Jack can eat the apple”

I now realise that I ask my kids too many questions to which my youngest son will simply respond No (even though he means yes)... since making more statements his speech has greatly improved.

Baby talk.... fill it in with a statement... my son would usually say jumbled up words then a word ie “blublublublubbluberbluberlub water”

Fill in the baby talk with several options followed by a pause “I want some water, jack wants water, drinking the water, jack is drinking the water, water in jacks cup, I jack likes water”

• Our baby talk has greatly reduced since.

My son confuses under and on top. Everything you do emphasis the actions. “Mummy is putting the plate ON TOP of the table, The spoon is ON TOP of the table, the shoes are UNDER the table... his understanding is improving.

I am interested in ABA and would be keen to hear your experience of this.

My understanding from moondog is that ABA goes deeper than Hanen.
She recommended “Don’t Shoot the Dog”. As I understand it, the idea is that we train each other in every interaction, intentionally or not. So when you call your mum and she complains you never phone her, she’s training you not to phone her because it’s a negative experience for you.

@lingle thank-you so much for the update. Your DS sounds like he has done fantastically, I would be so thrilled if time shows the same for mine. You have been my lighthouse in all this- it’s a bit weird I know to admit to this but having your posts at a click away, providing insights and leads for topics for which there is very little help out there in RL. (We also have the same job!)

@Mum2prince it’s so difficult knowing what to do. And I have found it so difficult not only knowing what to do, but how heavy to do as well. These are the main things I’ve paid attention to:

1. Hanen- playing and playing, following DS’s lead with what he wants to do. Adding one more word to his little phrases and commenting.
2. Floor time- not too different to Hanen, lots of getting down on the floor and just playing together, brio or puzzles, or playing with pretend food, anything.
3. ‘smartie game’ I plan a task for him to do, like a speech activity, counting, drawing a face, writing numbers, and I have a pot of mini smarties next to me under the table and he gets a smartie and much praise as soon as he does something good. We started off with drawing circles and just sitting at the table, we have come a long way. It’s all just a game to him but it helps his attention skills, ability to sit at a table and listen and has built his skill set.
4. before we go to sleep each night I tell him a story ‘once upon a time there was a boy called.. (his name) and I go through what we did that day), and when I come to ‘and he went to bed), my son says ‘the end’. He isn’t yet adding detail to the story but he loves the story I hope he will one day. Can’t think what else! Time will tell it any of it makes a difference though. Big hugs.

Turning 3 is difficult, but your DS will astound you as mine has (although we have the vast majority of the journey left!) x

@lingle I second everything glamour has said. It's amazing all the work you have done with your ds and how far he has come! For once I had happy tears in my eyes.

@glamour24 thankyou so much for all these tips, I do number 1 very often. And I credit that to how he knows the few words he has.

Number 2 is difficult as he would rather quickly "feed me" or doll and then quickly play on his own. But in hindsight I don't let him lead play (mainly because I feel I have to show him how to play imaginatively). But get alot of good stuff throwing, kicking ball, balloon, running anything action based, don't know if this counts as floortime .. as we aren't on the floor .

Number 3 I will give a try I usually reward him with praise, clapping and cuddles when he's followed instructions of anykind, I feel as though he would just take the sweet after the first activity and just go off lol, but I will defo give it a try.

Number 4 is abit advanced yet as I've tried and he just gets giggly starts playing and singing over me not knowing I'm trying to tell him a bedtime story (I always include his name also). But will try as he starts to understand more.

Breaks my heart today we went for a walk and after we jumped in a few puddles he was tired and put him in his pram.. and he was silent, the entire shopping trip . It breaks my heart.. I look around and see little ones all around me chatting up a storm. He can't even ask me for a drink without prompting first :(. In a way I am excited to see what he learns when he turns three and although the progression seems slow, I can see the difference. Him being 3 really scares me though, atleast when he's 2 people didn't think too much of it. Now he's 3 I suppose people will find it odd he's babbling and whinging like a baby (when we can't understand him) although he's tall for his age so I get those looks anyway. Yhank6ypu for the much needed advice. I've sent you a pm regarding ABA therapy . X

@Mum2prince I totally agree with you in regards to turning 3.
My little boy has a special needs buggy and people actually come up to me in supermarkets and ask what is wrong with him I would never even think of asking someone that.
As you say since my little boy has turned 3 it is more obvious to people that he has a disability, he is completely non verbal only says mum so when we are out and he is babbling or completely silent people notice, my little girl had a friends party today and my little boy had a massive meltdown because he had to get off the bouncy castle where he had been sitting for 2 hours and it's the looks and whispers that annoy me, I'm sure they think he is just a naughty child which he is far from in fact I have 5 children and he is the best behaved out of all of them, I have learnt that it's best to take the opportunity to educate people which is not always the easiest thing to do in the midst of a meltdown

@JessicaKenny2018 the fact your ds calls you mum is so heartwarming, my ds rarely will say mummy, but knows who I am e.g give mummy a kiss. I know it's hard to say ignore others, (as really I couldn't care less what they think) it's just that they make the thoughts in my head feel so real (My head is a scary place right now). And regarding a meltdown! I'm sorry but all kids have abit of a wobble especially those who are less able to express themselves verbally. Having said that i know what you mean about being well behaved, I feel that way about my ds too, but he might look like a brat when he is crying to play outside and there is no reasoning with him. ... I was just having a moment when we came back thinking about ds, looking at him thinking... special needs ds children are just that 'special'

@Mum2prince that's so true they truly are special, I would not change my little boy for the world he truly lights up my world and we have such an amazing bond.
I do understand that to someone that has never seen a meltdown it may seem like naughty behaviour or a tantrum and they are probably concerned as well when my son has a meltdown he will try to bang his head on the floor, I think unless you have a child with special needs you can never properly understand.
My little boy is the same he will scream and scream because he wants outside in the pouring rain or wants an ice cream with his spaghetti bolognese we just take it day by day, I don't know if he will ever speak hopefully he will, but I've heard him say mum and I couldn't ask for any more.

Yes to the turning three thing.

OP, I’m thinking about how your ds has songs for each occasion (rain, etc).

“That brings me to the musicality you mentioned your ds had. It's hard to explain to others because ds1 sings "rain rain go away" when it's raining, sings peppa pig's "jumping up and down in muddy puddles" on the way to nursery whilst jumping in puddles, he sings "10 little monkeys jumping on the bed" whilst jumping on the bed and I could go on all day. He seems to know what songs mean and sings them at appropriate times. He will also randomly break into song for no reason also and will sing whilst playing with his toys. “

I feel like each song (in its entirety) counts as one word on your list. They are like those compound German words in their length! So one song is, in effect, the “word” for ‘the-song-we-sing-when-we-jump-through-puddles”. What do you think?

I think the word for how our children (and I) learn music is “gestalt”? I think it means something like “all at once”?

I have gone into a specialist type of music education as well as the old job and so I have continued to think about this. When you meet people who genuinely “memorise” music (as opposed to it just living inside them after a certain degree of familiarity) you realise how very different they are from my sons and I.

I have sometimes wondered whether things would have been easier or harder if Chinese had been our first language -as the pitch-pattern of Chinese defines which word you mean.

Sorry still thinking.

I radically reduced music at one point which everyone thought was crazy. But I felt ds was learning everything in this “gestalt” way and not recognising individual components.

Omg @lingle you could not be more spot on! He seems to memorise the songs entirely without knowing what each individual word is or sometimes what is means. I do know he know some words meanings (up, down, jumping, monkey, bed, puddles) but will never say muddy puddles when he sees one.. will just break into the relevant song! When i say 'come on let's jump on the bed' he runs to the bed and starts singing 10 little monkeys. In the bath when I'm washing him and trying to teach him body parts he starts singing 'head,shoulders, knees and toes'. I was told by every salt he's seen that this is progress and they encourage it so we all sing along or even initiate it. But i feel it's getting in the way if him learning how to speak.. maybe he thinks this is a more fun way to speak? Or maybe because we are so responsive he thinks he is talking, because If u try to communicate with him he won't speak back, he will song. He was facetiming dh (works abroad) today whilst in the bath and he got no response until he sang baby shark!! I was replying to a few messages earlier, ds1 has been very cranky ,hardly eaten anything despite long walk and long bath. So thought he was crying because he was hungry, he layed down on my lap and sang "hush little baby don't you cry". People might think I'm crazy but i know he understands more than what it seems to others, possibly even more than I think. But he's miles away if you try and speak to him he just won't engage. Unless it's a song, or an instruction, or something of interest e.g do you want ... . Other than that he's not interested, so I can see why you tries to stop music. I have also felt this way when i realised I couldn't even teach him finger puppet excersises as he would just sing "mummy finger, mummy finger where are you" face palm. He isn't allowed screen time so he doesn't watch nursery rhymes at all, I don't play them in car or in the house mainly because I feel he would benefit more from interaction and he knows them all anyways. Just today he was signing "there was a man who had a dog" because he saw a dog and my mum was shocked as it's been over a year since she's played him that one (she knows I don't play him any nursery rhymes) that's were his sharp memory comes in. Interestingly while we were on holiday the villa had no door bell so when someone knocked the door is say "who is it?" He picked it up and started to also say "who id ittttt?" Similar tone at the appropriate time to my amazement. But he learnt it like the nursery ryhmes IYSWIM. (Hasn't said it while we have been home, maybe he associated it with knock on door and not doorbell which we have at home) he is a puzzle. Thank you for the detailed relies lingle

"Hush little baby" to tell me he is tired (His favourite lullaby) sorry for all the typos and spelling mistake, I'm using my phone and the autocorrect is horrendous!!

@JessicaKenny2018 I feel you, it's not that we want to "fix" our dc but to help them reach their potential. I mean what is "normal" anyways?! This world that we live in is so diverse you would think people would stop looking at an innocent child having a tantrum. We've all got something to deal with and struggles we are facing. I have a friend with a NT 9 year old who is on the verge of exclusion from school because of his behaviour. She's tries everything! She's also worried sick and cries her eyes out every once in a while.. My point is this is parenting and this is life. Let's do the best we can for our dc (which your doing anyway) and see what the future holds. Dare I say possibly even be optimistic and tell that voice inside our heads, to shut up!