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SN children

Gone and really upset myself!!

39 replies

Thomcat · 28/07/2004 11:41

God I'm such a silly, soppy cow sometimes!

There was a perfectly normal pleasant discussion on another thread about what our mums were like with us when we were little and what they think of us as mothers etc.

I was singing the praises of my wonderful mum and how we both had my nan to thank for the great job she did which has a huge part to play in how we both are as mothers.

I got to thinking how my nan passed on her skills to my mum and how she's passed then onto me and then realised that it's incredibly unlikely that Lottie will ever have children of her own. (I can't bring myself to totally rule it out it doesn't seem fair on her but we all now that it probably won't ever happen, will it???)

I don't usually allow myself to dwell on the future, it's so far away, things change, what's the point etc and I always do my best to find the positive and think about that.

I just can't do that in this instance right now.

Feel SO sad, as in tears at work the lot, that my baby won't ever have her own babies. That she won't ever have that kind of future, she won't be a mum, she won't pass on the things I taught her, that my mum taught me and that my nan taught her.

I know that what's really important is that I just do the best job I can with her and that she lives a happy and as fulfilled life as possible. I know I may well, god willing, have another child, but right now my little Lottie is all I have and it's just so sad that she won't be a mummy and that I won't get to hold her children and me a nana to them.

See - told you I was a soppy old cow! Sorry.
I realise this is a self indulged ramble and it's all a bit silly but there you go.
Mumsnet brings it out of me sometimes!

Thanks for 'listening'.

OP posts:
womba1 · 28/07/2004 11:50

you aren't a soppy or silly cow...just a lovely Mum who wants the best for your Lottie.
Whats daft about that?

Womba x

nikcola · 28/07/2004 11:55

you are not a silly cow , you are a lovley lovely mummy with a adroable little girl xxxx

cazzybabs · 28/07/2004 12:01

Many hugs - just see it as an incentive to have some more (hope thats not insenstive). And also Lottie will have lots of other things in her life and maybe she won't want to have children anyway. And you can be a step-granny to my dd children's if you like (she's only 2) if she has anyway.

juliek · 28/07/2004 12:47

Keep your chin up and keep doing what you're doing. I worry so much about what the future holds for my little girl (she has cp) but I do try to just enjoy what she can do at the moment. Hard sometimes I know, but try to stay positive.
Lots of Hugs xx

BlossomHill · 28/07/2004 13:06

TC, You know we are all here to listen, anytime. You are certainly not being self-indulgent or silly - far from it. You just love your little dd, that's certainly nothing to apologise for. Sending lots of love and hugs to you.(((()))) xxxxx
Having any child with sn is hard and I often find myself in tears over things so I do understand. Blossomhillxxx

bundle · 28/07/2004 13:08

thomcat, a good friend of mine wrote a dissertation on the rights of people with eg ds to reproduce when she was doing a medical ethics m.a. not sure if she came to any conclusion but it's something v few people ever think about.

Fio2 · 28/07/2004 13:14

You are not being soppySmile

I think its something we do have to come to terms with, but tbh it is not impossible that your dd will get married and maybe have children. I think alot of the social attitudes towards adults with Downs syndrome is changing and it will (or is now seen) as more socially acceptable for them (and I am talking about learning disabled adults in general) to marry and have children (sometimes with support off SS) There was a program on itv last year about a couple who had learning disabilities who had a child together. It made me quite hopeful, even though alot of posters on mumsnet seemed to think it was a disgusting idea.

Also i think as time goes by and our children grow up we come to terms with things like this and just accept them. I am sure my mum feels the same as she knew my sister would never get the chance to have children as her CF was severe (although she did have periods but having a child would have killed her) and she told me once how hurt but happy she felt that one of my sisters friends who also had CF (but mildly) had HAD a baby and is still doing well healthwise. But we just have to deal with these issues, I'm afraid. Sorry if i am being so matter of fact.

I feel the hurt too and feel people are insensitive to our situation. Dh was moaning about the kids playing up to SIL (as we all do) and my SIL said dont worry one day they will leave home. then dh ranted for ages about his family hadnt even thought that dd may NEVER leave home and could be dependant on us for the rest of her life. They just dont get it. You know I would love to see my daughter walk down the aisle and chat to her about current affairs, but that is an 'ideal' . She is still going to be my daughter whether she depends on me or not and as her parents (and you as lotties mum) we just have to make sure she/they reach their full potential (whatever that may be) and be happy. I really think as time goes by these things get easier to cope with.

I hope this has helped and not upset you more. i am a few more years down the line from you with my daughter and I remember how 'raw' these feelings used to be, but they have improved even in just a few years. ((hugs)) to you sweetheart Smile

luckymum · 28/07/2004 13:14

TC...hugs to you, I understand completely and its not self-indulgent at all.


NomDePlume · 28/07/2004 14:00

Oh Thomcat, what a moving post..

It is only natural for you to feel sad for the things that Lottie may not have first hand experience of in her life, your her Mum, it's your job

Like Fio said, there is no guarantee that Lottie won't have children. Attitudes towards people with SN having children and the support available are improving all the time.

If it does turn out that Lottie doesn't go on to have children in adulthood, then so be it. It may be that you do go on to have further child/ren and Lottie is able to be involved in their care and when the children get older, she can be involved with any nieces/nephews. Lottie can forge strong bonds throughout her life with all sorts of people, friends, family, facilitators, animals etc.

After all, there is no 100% guarantee which promises that non-SN people can have children, is there ? There's a chance that my non-SN DD may be unable to concieve, or that she may not ever have the desire to do so.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Lottie can have a wonderfully fulfilling life whether she has children or not... I know what I meant to say and I'm not sure I quite 'hit it' here but I hope you have the general gist.


dinosaur · 28/07/2004 14:04

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

marthamoo · 28/07/2004 14:04

Everyone has said all the right things already so I'll just add a big and heartfelt (((hug))). Your Lottie is a very lucky girl to have you for a Mum XX

prufrock · 28/07/2004 14:09

Thomcat - you more than anyone should know that there are no limits on what Lottie may or may not do in the future. I know logic doesn't help when you get sad thoughts though, so just lots of sympathy coming your way.

geekgrrl · 28/07/2004 14:18

aww Thomcat so sorry you're sad. I've been there too but I suspect it's easier for me because I have other children as well so I've moved on to other future things to worry about, such as how dd will cope if she has a crush on an NT boy and everybody takes the mickey...
I can only agree with what others have said, but also that, if Lottie loves kids when she is older, maybe she'll end up working with children or looking after someone else's. I am sure that your good mothering will leave a very important mark on Lottie and that it will have a big influence on her actions towards others even when she is an adult.
Chin up and give that little one a big cuddle.

Thomcat · 28/07/2004 14:51

Thanks SO much, again girls. Your're right there are no guarantees and yes Lottie could, possibly, maybe marry and even have children. Your're right again, NT children may not have children either becasue they can't or they don't want to. You're all quite right.

Thank you for your kind sensitive posts, all of you, you've made me feel much better, thank you.

OP posts:
hatmum · 28/07/2004 15:26

Glad that posts are helping - I do understand; it's really rough when these things hit home (and usually at inconvenient places like work!). My dn probably won't live beyond the age I am now and sometimes these thoughts are just really overwhelming. Much love and sympathy.

lou33 · 28/07/2004 15:28

Nothing to add to this Tc, but have a big hug from me

heartinthecountry · 28/07/2004 15:44

I have no wise words, just lots of empathy. I think that possibly when you have a child with SN there will always be moments like this. Sudden realisations of what will never be (or is unlikely to be). And I guess they will always make us feel incredibly sad. I hope that Fio2 is right and they get easier to deal with.....

Blu · 28/07/2004 15:48

Oh, Thomcat, I know how these things suddenly loom up and shake your very foundations, just as you're sailing along fine, being positive and constructive about having a SN child. I think it also sometimes feels hard to acknowledge the fears and sadnesses around some aspects of difference because it doens't feel like the 'correct' reponse. For me - and it's far less resonant than your won feelings here - it has been passing shoe shops. Young childrens shoes are just so gorgeous and scrummy, and we will never be able to choose them for our DS. The first time it hit me, in Clapham, knocked the breath out of me.

But you know- and you know me well enough by now, I hope, to know that this is meant positively and in no way horridly, our children are not here to carry our own hopes and dreams and histories, they are here to be their own people, beginning, middle and end. It's a wonderful strength to you that you cn draw on your own experience of being mothered - but lottie has no obligation to carry your dream forward. Whatever she does, however her life develops, she will bring you a wonderful experience as a mother, and be a daughter to be proud of.

I often think of the tape you talked of when i first joined MN - the one of songs telling her how precious she is. how are you getting on with it? There was Christine Aguilera's Beautiful, i think, Stevei Wonder.....

Love to you, Lottie and Dom,

Thomcat · 28/07/2004 15:59

Blu - what a fantastic post. Not that others haven't posted some wonderful supportive things here, Fio, Dinosaur, NomdePlume, everyones been lovely. But Blu, you are so sweet. Fancy remembering that tape! More than that though, you're spot on. Lottie is her own person, she probably won't have any desire to have children so why should I want her to have them? As long as she's happy then what else could I possibly want. Thank you so much for reminding me this. This is exactly what I needed. I absolutley don't feel sad anymore, well okay maybe just a tiny bit, but not a lot, honest! You're so, so right. As long as she's happy and fulfilled then I can't ask anymore. I'll just have to go and have more babies asap and make sure I do such a great job they will want loads of kids!!!!
Blu - from the bottom of my heart thanks, i can't really feel sad now, that's just what I needed. Thank you. TC xxxxxxxxxxxx

OP posts:
Piffleoffagus · 28/07/2004 16:18

TC, what you have given your daughter amounts ot even more than most of us could hope to be able to give to ours. You have been an inspiration, and I mean that sincerely since I first posted on the SN threads.
My dd mildly although only mildly affected by her Noonans has a 50% or greater chance of passing it on, although NS comes in mild forms such as hers, there will be no guarantees for her children. We are hopeful that medical advances may help her one day.
I totally understand the depth of your feelings though.
I have another child, my son, but I wonder if it is the daughters you really feel this with as they will always be yours, sons have wives, they have mothers and that's where they will turn..
I so want to be an involved granny someday too... I pang for this already, it is not self indulgent at all....

heartinthecountry · 28/07/2004 16:27

Thanks too Blu. I know your words were for Thomcat but they mean a lot to me too - probably to lots of us with children with SN who struggle every now and then. (now I'm being soppy! [wink})

Thomcat · 28/07/2004 16:38

Thanks Piff, and yes, I think for me personally it is a mother daughter thing. Not taking away from other mothers and their sons, just for me I'd like to have a daughter to watch and nuture into a mother herself. But Blu is right, that's not my right and as long as out SN children reach their full potential what more can we ask really. Grandchildren are gods reward for having children and hopefully we'll all be able to experience that for ourselves, but it's not our right.

OP posts:

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Thomcat · 28/07/2004 16:57

Heartinthecountry {{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}} xxx

OP posts:
Blu · 28/07/2004 17:00

I'm crying now, too!
Oh, god, isn't MN fab.

Fio2 · 28/07/2004 17:02

you lot are soooooooooooooo soppy!Smile

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