Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Preschool Nativity

41 replies

magicroundabouts · 02/12/2017 21:10

DS, 3.5 years old, hasn't received a diagnosis yet, but it is almost certain he will be diagnosed with autism early next year. Currently he attends preschool for 2 mornings a week. They have applied for 1:1 funding and are not happy for him to attend for any further hours until this is in place.

I found out last week that his preschool are putting a Nativity play on in a couple of weeks (this was a reminder email, but nobody had mentioned anything before to me). It will be held on the afternoon of one of the days he attends. Spoke to preschool and they want him to take part in the play, but don't want him to attend the morning session that day as it will be too much. When I was hesitant to agreeing, it was emphasised how much of a shame it would be for him to miss out on the play. He loves singing the songs etc etc.

Thing is though I don't buy it. The play is only going to add about an hour on to the time he would normally be there and I could be around if needed. There is a high probability he will refuse to go on stage at all and just sit on my lap and watch. DS has become very anxious about new places/environments recently and I think it could just be too overwhelming. It would be nice to give him the opportunity to try, but why does he have to miss the morning session in order to do this? He is hardly there as it is and the change in routine will unsettle him further.

I think the most hurtful thing is the blatant manipulation. Emphasising how important it is for him to be included while excluding him in the same breath. Funnily enough there was no mention of how he would be supported to take part

OP posts:

outputgap · 02/12/2017 21:36

What's their game? Are they stupid headedly trying to include him? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep to his normal routine and invite you both to come, and participate, if you wish, in the afternoon?

Our nursery has an incredibly relaxed 'performance' where the kids sing but can sit with their parents if they wish. Nativity shite is a good way of judging how child centred a place really is, imho.

Sounds like you've got your work cut out with them. Is there a senco?

Original poster

magicroundabouts · 02/12/2017 22:31

That's it, keeping his normal routine is far more important as far I am concerned. It would be nice for him to take part, but if they had asked me I would probably have said that we would come and watch the show.

They want me to bring him in for lunch with all the other children. He finds lunchtimes hard anyway, but all the children that attend over the five days will be there so it will be even more chaotic than usual. Then it will getting ready and the play. He is just not going to understand the change in routine.

I think they don't want him there in the morning because it will be inconvenient when they are setting up. It was the SENCO i was speaking too as well😡

OP posts:

outputgap · 03/12/2017 07:53

So, can you just say 'I've thought about it, and this is what I think is best'? I know you shouldn't need to but a surprising amount of people do not have a fucking clue. And just keep repeating that you think sticking to the normal timing is better for him.

DressedCrab · 03/12/2017 08:10

I think they don't want him there in the morning because it will be inconvenient when they are setting up.

I think you're right but why is this a problem? Nativity plays are such hard work for teachers and exhausting. It's all hands to the pumps in setting up but if your DS is there he may need to be watched and supported leaving one less pair of hands.

I think they are doing their job in including him, why be so uncompromising?

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 08:21

He has as much right to be there as any other child.

HardAsSnails · 03/12/2017 08:30

Of course they shouldn't exclude him but the build up to these events can be extremely overwhelming and it does sound like they are trying to ensure he's as calm as possible. Certainly with my ds what they propose would be the best option.

Frusso · 03/12/2017 09:43

I think they don't want him there in the morning because it will be inconvenient when they are setting up.

I think you are exactly right with this.
We had the same thing happen to us, I found it the most frustrating that they tried to make out that that wasn't what they meant.

I think they are doing their job in including him, why be so uncompromising?

No they're not. They're freeing up a pair of hands. That's not including that's excluding! And if he was School age it would be classed as an illegal exclusion.

OP you have to decide what would be the best thing for your ds and tell them that will be happening. They can't exclude him to make their lives easier. They don't get to pick and choose when to be inclusive, that's not being inclusive.
But you do have to weigh up what you think he can and cannot cope with on the day. I would also put it into an official complaint letter (what they have suggested exclusion from am, albeit verbally, and what you don't like about what they have suggested, and what you think would work better.) that has to go on file.

DressedCrab · 03/12/2017 11:53

No they're not. They're freeing up a pair of hands. That's not including that's excluding! And if he was School age it would be classed as an illegal exclusion.

But he isn't school age, so a pointless argument. They have applied for funding for a 1 - 1. What else can they do? God forbid you would try to make a teacher's life easier at a stressful time of year. Just insist on your rights and bugger everyone else.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 13:09

Yes how dare rights, human rights, come into this.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 13:11

Let's face it, the rights of disabled people matter just that little bit less, eh?

Frusso · 03/12/2017 13:25

What else can they do? Um, speak to the parent first and come up with a sensible workable plan together.

And yes, they may have applied for funding for a 1:1, but until that funding comes through they still have to provide it from their own budget.

But he isn't school age, so a pointless argument so only part of all that I said was pointing out that had the child been school age it would be classed as an illegal exclusion. So "if he was School age" is a "pointless argument". Ok, fair enough. I will retract those 5 words.

It's still an illegal exclusion irresponsible of age.
It is still exclusion because of SEN.
It is still discrimination.

Irrespective of making anybody's life easier. it is exclusion and discrimination.

So yes dressedcrab I would still advise reminding the nursery that the child has rights and those rights are protected. And I would still advise putting it into writing.

outputgap · 03/12/2017 14:19

Dressed crab, are you serious? The disabled kids should get fucked about to ensure a grown up professional's day is less stressful? What about dialling down the nativity so no one is stressed?

Spikeyball · 03/12/2017 14:39

"I think you're right but why is this a problem?"

Because changing the child's normal routine is distressing for the child.

DressedCrab · 03/12/2017 16:02

The disabled kids should get fucked about to ensure a grown up professional's day is less stressful?

I didn't say that. But feel free to exercise your over-active imagination.

I said this one child who is obviously having difficulties may be better at home in the calm, as others have said. The school knows the child and are in a position to predict how he will react to the stress of preparations.There is no 1 - 1 in place to keep him calm but the school is applying for funding to get one ASAP. They can't magic one up. Yet they still have to prepare for the Nativity which they have included him in, despite it not being his hours. I think they are to be praised for that.

How you extrapolated from this that I think all children with disabilities should be fucked about is beyond stupid. Never let the facts get in the way of a good froth.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 16:18

You think a big change in his routine is going to leave him calm at home.... Most likely it won't.

Why do you think prioritising an adults stress over his own is a good thing?

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 16:20

And you yourself were the one who said, in your own words, that the teacher's stress is more important than the child's rights.

Frusso · 03/12/2017 16:32

* Y*et they still have to prepare for the Nativity which they have included him in, despite it not being his hours. I think they are to be praised for that.

What exactly are you proposing they be praised for?

Praised for excluding a child because he has SEN because It's all hands to the pumps in setting up but if your DS is there he may need to be watched and supported leaving one less pair of hands?

Or Praised for preparing for a nativity?

Or praised for including a one of the nursery children in a nativity?

Which is it do you propose they are praised for?

Frusso · 03/12/2017 16:39

despite it not being his hours it's 1 hour difference, either way the chances are it's not the hours for maybe half of the children attending. Should they be praised for that too?

DressedCrab · 03/12/2017 17:39

And you yourself were the one who said, in your own words, that the teacher's stress is more important than the child's rights.

There you go making things up again. Nowhere did I say that but you seem to enjoy creating fiction so carry on, dear.

I think that teachers are to be praised for including all children in the nativity, Frusso. Why do you think they shouldn't? This time of year teachers earn every penny but still parents whine and whinge when they are trying to do their best for all the children. It's not asking too much imo for parents to give a bit of co-operation to make the process easier.

Let's hang, draw and quarter teachers for daring to ask a parent for a bit of a compromise to oil the wheels. They aren't superhuman, although reading this people expect them to be.

No wonder they are leaving in droves.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 17:44

There you go making things up again.
Again? You are confusing me with Spikeyball.
Also your own quote:
God forbid you would try to make a teacher's life easier at a stressful time of year. Just insist on your rights and bugger everyone else.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 17:47

Let's hang, draw and quarter teachers for daring to ask a parent for a bit of a compromise to oil the wheels.
There as been no communication of compromise between the OP and the school, compromise requires discussion.

DressedCrab · 03/12/2017 17:47

Yes, I said that. Where does it say teachers are more important? I was thinking of the teachers and the other children as well as the child concerned, all of them matter. I don't think it was a big deal to ask.

Sorry for confusing you with another poster.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 17:48

I think that teachers are to be praised for including all children in the nativity

Well done for following the law?

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/12/2017 17:50

Yes, I said that. Where does it say teachers are more important? I was thinking of the teachers and the other children as well as the child concerned, all of them matter.
None of them matter more than another.

DressedCrab · 03/12/2017 17:53

You really don't like teachers do you?

Flip

1 2