Really upset with DS's preschool

[monochromeunicorn]

My DS is 3 and has autism. He has language delay, his understanding is approximately that of an 18 month old. He has no sense of danger, no self care skills (still in nappies etc) and is very much like a 1 year old in a 3 year old body.

After Easter hols he started in a mainstream preschool that is attached to the school my DD goes to.

This week my childminder was picking him up, she was parked on the other side of the road and could hear a member of staff yelling at DS from there so ran over to see what was going on.

It turns out that the children were playing out but it was time to go in. My DS went in but then ran back outside to play. He absolutely would not have understood that this was wrong. The TA who saw him started shouting at him for being outside, and for running away when she was talking to him. He won't have understood a word she was saying.

She then took him by the hand and DS flopped to the floor (doesn't like to be touched at the best of times) and was crying. The teacher immediately just picked him up under his arms and lifted him into class. DS was REALLY upset.

I'm really cross about this, mainly that staff are not talking to him in a way he can understand, are shouting at him and manhandingly him as a way of controlling him.

On the other hand I do appreciate that it is difficult to get DS to follow instructions at the best of times.

What do you think? My childminder has put in a formal complaint as she was very upset by what she saw. The school claim that they acted appropriately, as DS shouldn't have been outside.

Is there a way they could have spoken to your ds that would have ensured he understood and complied with the request with the instruction to come inside? If not, i wouldn't object to his being carried on this one occasion .

However, i would speak to the preschool because id want them to be improving the way they interacted with him in the future, to avoid this sort of situation arising. They should always be keeping verbal instructions clear and simple to help him understand, they can try other prompts (pec card, ringing a bell, whatever) to help clarify a change in activity, and they could take steps to ensure he can't just turn round and run out again. And they shouldn't get cross.

I do have some sympathy for the staff because things like taking a child's hand or guiding them by the shoulder are a big part of dealing with toddlers and they can't do this with your ds. But on the other hand they're professionals and should be able to come up with alternative strategies.

Yes he does have a basic level of understanding. He would have understood "DS stop" and "come back". I can't say he would definitely comply though.

They do have a prompt to come back inside which is a tambourine. He did go back inside initially, but the door was still open so he will have just ran out to play again. He doesn't seem to understand stuff like this at all. I'm beginning to think he has quite significant learning difficulties on top of his autism

I don't mind gentle guiding or even picking him up as I do this myself. But a big long ranty bollocking that he wont have understood a word of is not only completely pointless, but just scares the life out of him. They didn't even give him chance to understand what was expected of him and comply

And the fact that my childminder was quite upset by what she saw isn't good is it?

No 3 year old should get a big long ranty bollocking at preschool, let alone one who lacks understanding. Sorry, i hadn't picked up how bad it was from your first post (my bad, i kind of skipped over it). No wonder your child minder complained and yes you should too.

I used to chair a preschool. What you are describing would have been a disciplinary offence- but the truth is it would never have happened. The staff never shouted at the children, the only raised voices were to be heard above the hubbub. Being talked to in a firm voice and being removed from an activity to sit by a teacher was the ultimate sanction for bad behaviour - but your son wasn't even behaving badly.

I just don't know where to go from here.

I have spoken to the school at length. I have seen the incident on cctv, although obviously there's no sound. They haven't reassured me at all, they say their staff acted appropriately.

And they seem really angry that the childminder has made an official complaint. They even had a go at me about this

No the autism outreach has just been cut in our area

The school have many children with ASD and other special needs. They have resourced provision for children with physical disabilities. They have a lot of experience, and have an excellent reputation for working with children SN. Which is why I moved my elder child there as she also has ASD (although aspergers, no learning difficulties). I have to say the main school are brilliant and I have no complaints.

Foundation stage seems an absolute shambles though. And I'm very disappointed with them, I expected a lot more.

Yes there are 2 reasons I put him in nursery:

1. on the advice of every professional who has being involved with DS. Apparently it will be good for his development

2. To get evidence of his needs and support in applying for an ECHP in time for reception next year.

If you do want to challenge the nursery, you could ask to see their policies on managing behaviour. I would hope they would all be based on positive management and reinforcement of desired behaviours. They should also outline how negative behaviours will be dealt with. You should also ask to see their policies around children with sen. I would be amazed if what you are then shown would match what occurred. Actually, I'd be horrified.

I have already been through the EHCP process with DD.

My L.A. are shit and break the law left right and centre.

They will refuse to assess if he hasn't already seen the ed psych. Illegal I know

Everyone who has more experience of the system than me says he won't get an EHCP at the childminders.

School say the ed psych won't see him till September at the earliest, No availability before then.

I could always apply anyway and appeal when they refuse of course.

Their policies are online, it says they should only restrain or move a child if they're a danger to themselves or others or property.

School says he was in danger by being outside on his own (even though the TA followed him so he technically wasn't alone). Also as it was nearly 11.30 when they would have been opening the nursery gates for home time (although obviously they can wait a couple of mins until DS is inside before they open the gates).

And the ranting and shouting? Which bit of their behaviour policy covers that? Or are they saying it didn't happen?

They're downplaying that, especially as there is no sound on the cctv.

I won't get any sense out of the L.A. I may as well ask DS! I already rang SENDIASS on Wednesday and left a message. Still waiting on a return call

I have read the ipsea website, the SEN COP and know the law and what SHOULD happen. But it's seems like schools and the L.A. can do whatever the fuck they like and no one holds them to account.

I am absolutely terrified that DS will end up in a mainstream classroom next September with no or minimum support. There is no way that will ever end well. And I'm doing everything possible to stop that happening.

I'm meant to be looking round schools and applying for his place this autumn for God's sake

The whole system is an absolute fucking JOKE.

I just don't know what to do. Feel totally out of my depth.

Our lovely SALT left in April and we have just been allocated a new one (this will be the 4th one he's seen!). She came to observe him in school last week (literally just watch, she didnt spend any time one on one with him) and give advice. I'm no expert but she seemed fairly clueless.

She says I should read to him and ask him questions. Reading to him isn't helping his understanding!!! DS can recite about 30 books (maybe more?) word for word off by heart. But he is like a parrot, he can repeat stuff but he has very little understanding of what he's saying. And he doesn't answer questions because he doesn't understand the question, and can't generate his own speech to answer it.

The previous SALT said NOT to ask him questions as it stresses him out, just to keep commenting and modelling but not to require a response from him. So who knows?!?!

Anyway she isn't going to do any direct work with him and said she will come back in September to review.

The problem is that DS has an amazing memory (so he can't have learning disabilities right?). He can recite books and tv programmes off by heart. He knows all his letters and numbers and colours and shapes and has done for ages. He can remember anything. He just doesn't seem to UNDERSTAND anything. He knows his numbers, but can't tell you how old he is or how many there are. He can't use the stuff he remembers in any meaningful way. I don't know WHAT that is - is it a learning disability? Just part of autism (DD doesn't have this part)?

what's your DS's diagnosis, is it autism? Is this difficulty understanding language/ things part of autism? I'm dying to know as I've never met anyone like DS.

I find it really difficult to explain his difficulties to people, more often than not they just don't get it. Even people who are supposed to be autism trained like his new SALT. I get a lot of and faces.
Professionals who HAVE got it say he's "complex" whatever that means.

How's your DS doing if you don't mind me asking?

Sorry only just seen your last post.

No one has mentioned language disorder to me. His SALT reports all say language delay. Is that basically the same thing?

He is very ASD as well, very rigid, can't cope with transitions, no imaginative play (very little play indeed apart from puzzles), hated change.

Amazing that your DS learnt to read before he could talk