Really upset with DS's preschool

[monochromeunicorn]

My DS is 3 and has autism. He has language delay, his understanding is approximately that of an 18 month old. He has no sense of danger, no self care skills (still in nappies etc) and is very much like a 1 year old in a 3 year old body.

After Easter hols he started in a mainstream preschool that is attached to the school my DD goes to.

This week my childminder was picking him up, she was parked on the other side of the road and could hear a member of staff yelling at DS from there so ran over to see what was going on.

It turns out that the children were playing out but it was time to go in. My DS went in but then ran back outside to play. He absolutely would not have understood that this was wrong. The TA who saw him started shouting at him for being outside, and for running away when she was talking to him. He won't have understood a word she was saying.

She then took him by the hand and DS flopped to the floor (doesn't like to be touched at the best of times) and was crying. The teacher immediately just picked him up under his arms and lifted him into class. DS was REALLY upset.

I'm really cross about this, mainly that staff are not talking to him in a way he can understand, are shouting at him and manhandingly him as a way of controlling him.

On the other hand I do appreciate that it is difficult to get DS to follow instructions at the best of times.

What do you think? My childminder has put in a formal complaint as she was very upset by what she saw. The school claim that they acted appropriately, as DS shouldn't have been outside.

I haven't read the first description of a child with autism I will have to look that up.

I know echolalia is very common in poeple with ASD so I'm always shocked that professionals are confused when I explain DS to them. I think everyone thinks understanding comes before talking so if you can talk you can understand.

It also seems to be conventional wisdom that talking comes before reading, and children with poor language skills will struggle to learn to read. But that's obviously bollocks too as your DS has proven.

Your DS sounds lovely and very bright. I hope my DS will make jokes with me one day, he already does an hilarious raspberry

That's all really helpful too frusso. I don't know if DS is cognitively able or not. How can you tell when they're only 3?

He certainly has an amazing memory (visual and for things he hears). The childminder says he has advanced jigsaw puzzle skills But I think that's pretty much it.

He doesn't know anything about the world. You know all the things that 3 year old boys are into like superheroes, firemen/police, pirates, cars, trains, birthdays. He knows literally zero about those things. He doesn't know what christmas is, or father christmas or presents (He ignores them, hasn't opened one EVER, doesn't know what they're FOR). He can't play shops, or vets, or doctors and nurses because he doesn't know what those things are and what you do there.

He doesn't follow rules or seem to understand what's expected of him. He still eats with his hands (even soup), despite being able to use a spoon and us constantly modelling using a spoon. He still goes in buggy because he doesn't walk in the right direction, or he wanders off, or rolls around on the floor. He doesnt seem to be aware of other people or stuff going on around him, he's always in his own little world.

Developmentally (apart from the memory and jigsaw skills) he is very much about 18 months old.

Just read this and wanted to reiterate that you are right to feel cross in regards what happened.

My 4 year old has Autism and I would be very cross if he were shouted at for something he didn't understand!

Also, I work in a Special School and as a staff the pupils are not 'shouted' at! It doesn't work!!! Short/direct instructions are used with visual support ie PECS/makaton where necessary.

I understand why you have been advised to put your little one in to Nursey for EHCP evidence purposes...but ask for a meeting (and take support ie an SEN representative with you) to tell them again 'this works with x, this works with x...but this does not work, is inappropriate and I/we will again formally complain if used.' Even put in writing.

Unfortunately I do think (having worked in mainstream before SEN,) that ASD training delivered in mainstream is very basic and if a child doesn't present as a 'stereotype Autistic child'...then staff don't even contemplate Autism...or think a child may even have been wrongly diagnosed.

My little man gets ideas in his head and HAS to 'run' with them. This to others without understanding just comes across as naughty and like a paddy if he doesn't get his own way yet I know he cannot grasp why he 'can't' do a specific something and that is hard to explain to others.

Xx

Your son sounds like mine, can read but the understanding is very behind. He probably has hyperlexia - ability to read and fascination with letters - there are some facebook groups that are quite supportive.

I think different people with ASD have different levels of understanding. Some other kids have good understanding. My son could not understand any instructions at all at age 3, he did not understand most language to be honest - although he could recite the alphabet backwards. He would not have understood that he could not have gone outside. In fact he found any instructions, or questions, very pressurising and would have had a meltdown just from being asked to do anything. Now he understands quite a bit but it's taken a lot of gentle, careful work. Insisting or forcing him to do something has never worked.

The school don't sound like they have a clue - they need to be able to prevent and be very proactive around your child to stop any difficulties happening. The fact that your child can tolerate most of school and cooperate most of the time is brilliant. A lot of kids with his difficulties might be getting very frustrated and biting etc by now. So the fact he is keeping it together despite not understanding is a credit to him - must be very hard.

But to be fair to the school I don't think a teacher and a TA are capable of giving your son what he needs if they have a full classroom. He needs a special needs assistant - my son is only just now going into a special school. If he is just going along but not understanding - much will be going over his head. He needs an individual plan. I needed to get down to my sons level and 'teach' him specifically to understand - try Hanens speech and language stuff - also try scaling back all demands on your child and get down to his developmental level.

Baby, tiny steps are what is needed. If I were the school for example - that child should never have been scolded at all - he needs someone working next to him who has some specific training around ASD. Also using words if he can read written down - and gearing things around his interests like shapes, numbers etc.

Thanks for your replies, it's really good to hear from other people with children like my DS, i dont know any in real life.

Can I ask you - what sort of intervention and support worked for your children in primary school? Do I need to be looking at mainstream or specialist provision?

I think I need a clear picture in my head of what he needs.

Once I know this I need to figure out what evidence we will need to get this, and how to get the evidence. Then I have a plan.

I'm watching this thread with interest as my DS sounds very similar to yours. He's 3 and is diagnosed with "language disorder and social interaction weaknesses". He would understand "DS... STOP" with a hand gesture then pointing back to the door. He understands to go to where is being pointed to. But anything like "DS, come inside" he wouldn't have a clue. He also would think that he could go back outside as the door was open or he could open it. DS wouldn't have understood anything of what she was shouting about not coming inside and running away. He just would have stood there scared repeating what he could of what she was saying because he knows people want him to try and repeat words We pulled DS out of his first preschool after 2.5 weeks and my only regret is letting it carry on that long. He now goes to a tiny village preschool and loves it. He's got a place at a special preschool attached to a special primary school from september and I'm hoping they'll be able to either help him be ready for mainstream primary or get all the assessments done so he can carry on in to the primary the preschool is attached to.

That sounds ideal captaincake. I've been told there are NO specialist placements that can be accessed in the city without an ECHP.

There was until last year, but these were cut to increase the number of places available to those with EHCP as there are massive waiting lists for specialist placements EVEN for those with an EHCP.

Thats how bad things are where i live

I think the SENCO is looking at applying for his EHCP asap now, she emailed me this morning to say she was just waiting on some info from the L.A. Fingers crossed.

Hi again

Well this has escalated really quickly.

The childminder went to meet with the school about her formal complaint on Monday.

They were really horrible to her. She says they were rude, confrontational and aggressive in the way they spoke to her. They deny 100% they did anything wrong.

The next day the childminder gave us her notice Leaving us without childcare for the majority of the summer holidays and the foreseeable future.

It's going to be next to impossible to find suitable childcare for an autistic 3 year old at such short notice. And very stressful for DS who doesn't manage change well.

I'm now VERY angry with the school. I'm angry with the childminder too. I don't blame her for quitting, I just wish she'd been honest with me about why.

Both my children go to that school, I have totally lost faith in them. I have no other childcare. And I have no clue what to do

Why did she hand herb notice in?

I don't like to comment on the nursery situation but I assume there were lots of other children there too and as it was nearly time to open the doors for parents time really would have been the essence (yes, some parents will complain if doors are opened a few minutes late).