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Between a rock and a hard place and need advice

60 replies

shazzarooney999 · 30/04/2016 21:20

Hi guys, this is a really tricky one and i dont know how to handle it, i have the 8 year old, high functioning although not offically diagnosed yet also had spd and hypercusiss, I then have a much older child, 19 who is suffering depression due to all the meltdowns my high functioning child has, the other children cannot come into the room or come anywhere with us without him kicking off, this is affecting the 19 year old badly, although saying that the 19 year old has the nasty habbit of rubbing my other child up the other way causing him to have a meltdown for hours on end.

Its been hell on earth the last few days and i just dont know what to do about this, i was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions please? the 19 year old keeps calling the younger one a pychopath, i have tried explaining time and time again that when the younger one says something negative he needs to ignore it, but he doesnt then he goes onto critisize our parenting, because we are trying to let some things ride to avoid full on meltdowns, but the 19 year old think the younger one is getting away with everything and thats not the case, when the younger one has smashed electrical equipment ect we have made him pay for it out of his pocket money.

Anyway has anyone any advice on how to deal with this please?

OP posts:
zzzzz · 04/05/2016 15:22

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knittingwithnettles · 04/05/2016 15:42

I'm with Melawati on this. Even if he is 19 NOW, he was only a child quite recently and the bad feelings may have crept in a lot earlier, leading to depression NOW.

I don't often suggest this, as our experience wasn't so great (our children were really too young to be involved at that stage so it was a bad idea to sit talking in a circle, and quite counterproductive for them), but is there any chance you could get referred to Family Therapy (leaving little ds behind but including big ds) Then he could vent some of his negative feelings in a safe way, and see the things in a different light; you could reinforce to him that you care about him and worry about him too. I think if you can talk to him away^ from 8 year old ds at some point, when there is no meltdown on, and just discuss what your way of coping with ds is, remind him what the bottom line is, that ds is not a pyschopath, but a child, and he was that age once, and you did x y z with him.

I've had had to have numerous conversations with ds's siblings about calling ds a weirdo, and retarded. Flame me if you like but they said things like that, it was that bad.t Okay, they were much younger, 10 and 12 at the time. But I had to focus on them, make time for them, make some sort of space for them, and simultaneously remind them that I held ds in high esteem and would not tolerate them saying foul things to him. Things are much better now.

There's a good book called How To Talk So Teens will Listen by Faber and Mazlish.

But I would also suggest that moving out, even if it is just for a few weeks is a good idea. I went to uni at 19, my [younger] brothers were very difficult at that point, and I'm glad I got away in the term time.

knittingwithnettles · 04/05/2016 15:43

sorry, didn't mean to put these italics

oh just realised thread is 3 pages, sorry havent rtwt

knittingwithnettles · 04/05/2016 16:01

I think the idea of rules is a really good one.
I also agree that the rules should not be changed to suit depression or immaturity
I agree with YouareKidding

I also agree with chow that to say just ignore is not the answer. More like, remind him you are in control, but you really appreciate any support he can give (he could make you a cup of tea afterwards, come and chat to you later cheer you up telling you about that tv programme he was watching) Don't ask him to help you with the ds though. Let that be something he chooses to do himself.

DigestiveBiscuit · 04/05/2016 23:24

Here is one definition of bullying:

www.gov.uk/bullying-at-school/bullying-a-definition

including "intended to hurt someone either physically or emotionally" I would question whether somebody, suffering from depression with irritability, angry outbursts and aggression INTENDS to hurt other people. As I said, we are three years further down the road from OP. I listen to DD2, crying her eyes out to the psychiatrists in the S 136 suite - she is far too self absorbed to consider the effects of what she says on DD1 or anybody else! She simply states what she sees as facts.

The bottom line is unless the adult dc can earn enough to support themselves, paying their rent, bills, food, clothes and travel to and from work, what in the real world are you going to do, when they are irritable, have an angry outburst or get aggressive due to the depression? Only the OP knows whether DS1 works full time, is a student or is unemployed, but:

  1. Students don't qualify for housing benefit, and a dc with depression is unlikely to be able to keep up with a course, and work enough part-time to keep themselves?
2.Benefits - OP would most likely have to help DS1 apply for them. Its hard enough to negotiate these systems, as a mature adult - I cannot imagine a depressed 19 year old getting through them. PIP is hard to get with MH problems, because its specifically designed to exclude them. JSA leaves dc open to sanctions. ESA requires a work capability assessment, unless they get in the support group on the papers alone (unlikely with MH problems, I'd of thought?). It took me 2 years to get ESA for DD1. I did not have the energy to apply to the Tribunal over PIP for DD2.
  1. OP pays for the accommodation herself for DS1 - we can't afford it. A one bedroom flat is £200,000 here.
  2. If DS1 is dependent on OP, then they can't get legal aid to seek a proper assessment of need and care plan from SS, in order to try and get supported living. DS1 either has to be working, with disposable income below £733 pcm or say on ESA (the income support group).

We thought DD2 just had depression at 19, and going to university would be the best thing for her. After her not eating and drinking, 14 suicide attempts, binge drinking alcohol, being the victim of sexual abuse (because she wanted somebody to care for her), her running around on the streets of a major city, either paralytic while taking an overdose; or in a panic attack at midnight - and us getting phone calls from the emergency services all hours of the day and night, asking if we knew where she was, because they were worried about her; we found it was less stressful if she lived at home, because at least we generally know where she is and what she is doing. We can make sure she eats and drinks properly, takes her medication and gets clean clothes.

DD1's social worker considered DD2's needs were greater than DD1's. Both he and DD2's consultant psychiatrist recommended a 52 week placement for DD1. Unfortunately, DD1's social worker left and we had no social worker for 6 months.

DD2 took an overdose in the second week of the summer holidays last year, because she could not cope with DD1. We had specifically told her before, not to take an overdose of paracetamol, because dying of liver failure is very unpleasant - she took no notice and took an overdose of paracetamol. She was very ill for several days.

October half term - we called the police, after DD2 had been self harming, and DD1 was frightened she was going to kill her. The police sectioned her, and the S 136 suite discharged her the next day, even though she was crying she would be suicidal if she was sent home. Four times, the psychiatrist rang me to ask me to take her back home and I refused, because of concern for DD1. So, the mental health trust left her in the centre of our town, with no money, no credit cards and no charge on her phone at 5 pm. She came home and burst into tears, that she was a good person and what had she done to deserve all this? I felt sorry for her, and let her stay. Did it teach her anything? Not really!

After Easter, DD1 refused to go back to college. DD2 told her she was going to kill her. I sought advice from Social Services and the mental health trust. Neither of them told me to tell DD2 to move out - because its a case of the lesser of two evils.

We've now got Irwin Mitchell acting for both of them, on legal aid, because the mental health trust professionals told DD2 to get a part time job, and she is no longer technically dependent on us.

So, if DD2 lay in bed all day, not eating and drinking, even though we told her she risked kidney damage; and she took an overdose of paracetamol, when we told her exactly why she shouldn't, what makes any of you think, its just a matter of setting down rules about being kind or move out?

zzzzz · 05/05/2016 07:28

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PolterGoose · 05/05/2016 07:36

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knittingwithnettles · 05/05/2016 10:02

I hope Irwin Mitchell can help. I don't think anyone should have priority over any one else in the family. The effects of prioritizing one backfire anyway, and just ends up hurting the one that you prioritized, if their siblings turn on them, or the disabled child has to live with someone who is so unhappy like your dd2.

I personally do not believe that a 19 year old is an adult who can make adult decisions in a vacuum, even if they were in perfect mental health. Unless you are on a desert island you are always going to need older wiser adults to advise and support you, whether you in uni, or a job, or just living in the big wide world. In societies where children take "responsibilty" much earlier, they are surrounded by older adults giving them instructions, rules, guidance.

I agree that namby pamby sets of "rules" aren't going to make a difference, more that when you live with your parent, (or any older protecting adult) there are necessarily going to be a set of rules to the way you all live together, as you say, food, drink, getting up, going to sleep, and knowing that your parent supports you and supports the other sibling is a "rule" of sorts.

Well meaning advice must be beyond infuriating Digestive. In my family there were two sparring siblings who made my mum's life very very difficult and very painful, both with their own vulnerabilities, MH problems. They did both move out eventually, one has ironically returned to the fold, and actively seeks parental protection (in a good sense) and now looks out for my mum in his forties. It has got better, looking back we all needed to be closer, not further apart, but I think some form of supported living is the only solution, rather than actually throwing someone out, which doesn't work at all.

As I say I hope that Irwin Mitchell can help. I paid for a lawyer to unravel some stuff for ds2 and it has been a great help. At the time it seemed enormously expensive in proportion to money I could have spent actually helping ds2 (rather than bureaucracy) but it has in retrospect given me knowledge, which is a priceless thing. Just not knowing what your options are, or what you should be doing, is the worst thing.

zzzzz · 05/05/2016 10:44

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ChowNowBrownCow · 05/05/2016 15:57

sorry Digestive, I really hope things get better for you Flowers

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