siblings

[DorothyL]

So, siblings of sn children, who have to put up with quite a bit due to their sibling's sn - do you expect them to be a supporter of their sn sibling nonetheless or do you accept resentment etc?

I have 4 dc. We expect them to respect each other and treat each other kindly and considerately. Not that in reality it works out!
We have one with ASD/PDA, and another undiagnosed but suspected SN.
Dd (nt) tends to be more understanding and supportive of ds2.
Ds1 and 2 constantly fight and wind each other up, both have different needs and it's difficult to support both at the same time.
We don't expect ds1 and dd to be carers, but if ds2 is going through a difficult patch we do sometimes rely on them to watch ds3 (4).
We would never stop them doing anything they wanted to do though, and we try to make sure that each of them have time alone with dh and me, even if it's jot as often as we'd like.
There is a lot of resentment though, and the older two (13 and 15) both think that ds2 is our favourite. He isn't, but he needs so much more supervision/input/support.
Family can make it difficult as they will sometimes criticise us doing things differently, and suggest that the dc miss out on stuff - eg. Christmas next year we are planning on putting the tree up later than we normally would, so ds2 isn't as overwhelmed, but this is seen as a bad thing, as we're letting down our other dc who want the tree up earlier. As we see it, we are all family, and if that means that we do things differently to make sure it's less distressing for one member who finds it difficult, then so be it, I don't think that's neglecting my dc at all.

It seems to me that you are getting the balance about right, Phil. Compromise happens in all families. And you are not expecting the older ones to provide child care.

I'm a little confused by this thread
I interpreted Dorothy's post as needing support for how difficult it is to manage siblings when one has sn - I might have missed it but I didn't see Dorothy mention her daughter providing child care

And as controversial as this may be, until you have a sn child, I find it hard to see how you can possibly truly empathize - sympathize maybe, offer a piece of advice based on something you've read or used in a professional setting of course - but no one really understands unless they too are living 24/7 with the struggle of raising a sn child alongside a nt child, where you can not walk away, leave, or get to go home at the end of the day

I've been here quite a long time as well, zzzz. Not always with this name, I change every few months.

All DCs, those with SN or NT, are affected by the circumstances of their families. In the case of my friend's DD I feel she had more to bear of the child care than was reasonable. I would have felt the same if a 14 year old had to miss school activities to care for an NT child. The OP asked about resentment, I was explaining a case I know well.

As I said previously, it's very hard to get the balance right.

zzzzzz - so true

We are the sum of all our experiences - and we can't possibly split out a part - may as well try to hold back the tide - the best we can do is get up each morning and try to do our very best with what we have at hand

No childcare, but for example now at xmas time we can only play board games that ds can play, at least until he goes to bed. he has violent verbal outbursts and lots of things that trigger those so there's quite a bit of tiptoeing.. While dd1 doesn't mind dd2 often does. Because of his physical limitations walks are very slow affairs. Lots of things like that.

If DD2 doesn't want to play the family board games maybe it would be best not to insist every time. She may regret her decision when she's sitting out and want to join in next time.

If the older ones want to play a game without DS I would say that's ok as well as long as it isn't all the time. Little brothers do get left out sometimes in all families.

How old are the girls? Could they go for walks on their own?

Yes little brothers get left out but the point is we can't play a game when he's around

Can he not be on a team with you? When DS2 was a bit young for some games he and I played as a team, which he quite enjoyed. Or he teamed up with DH.

I agree with a lot of what you say, zzzzz. But I do feel very strongly that child care should not fall to the siblings. DCs shouldn't miss out on drama, sport and music extra curricular activities because their parents oblige them to look after siblings with SN. And they certainly shouldn't miss out on revision classes for external exams. Child care is not the responsibility of siblings, it just isn't. Apart from in the occasional emergency.

I have a DN (now adult) with autism and everybody in the family did all we could to lessen the negative impact on his DS. Lots of compromises, especially at this time of year, but also DN came to understand that sometimes it was his DSis's turn to choose. We used to take him out somewhere, usually involving trains, so his DSis could spend time doing something she really enjoyed with her parents. And sometimes we'd take her out. If, on a rare occasion, there was no one able to look after him after school then their parents paid DSis the going rate for baby sitting.

DN lives in sheltered accommodation now and his DSis visits him and he visits her and her family. They have a good relationship. Her eldest has autism and she is using her parents as her model to ensure all her DCs have the best possible childhood. And all of the wider family are involved in helping them do this. Her DS is perfectly happy to be dropped off with us while the rest of them do something he would hate, like a theme park and we have a day building lego with him.

I can't help but contrast this with how DF's DD feels about her childhood and how distanced she is now from her family. She never felt that she mattered or that her needs were important.

This is the one thing I fear I have got so terribly wrong. I have 3 DC, my 11yo is NT and 5yo has ASD and a 2yo who is also NT.

DD2 is explosive, she can't/won't share, has to have everything the others have and also feels like she is hard done by.

DD1 feels massive resentment towards her and now she is starting to say and do things to her that deliberately set her off. I struggle massively because I feel like DD1 should know/understand why she can't say the things she does. She's becoming very stubborn. And I'm entirely to blame. All too often I find myself saying to her 'just do it'. One example is in the car. DD2 loves to sing and always asks DD1 to join in. She says no and refuses to and just sits there and sulks. This results in DD2 kicking her seat, leaning forward to pull her hair and screaming at her. I say to DD1, why can't you just sing with her, is it that hard. I know I shouldn't say it, she's entitled to not want to sing, but if it stops an angry outburst from DD2 then why can't she just do it!

There's so many more things like this, and I know I'm getting it wrong and am potentially ruining their relationship. I read about all these siblings looking out for their brothers/sisters and mine just argue, it makes me feel so sad cause I'm the one that has made it like this. I read a text on DD1's phone to her friend saying how weird her sister is and that no one likes her. It was horrible to read and made me cry.

I don't want DD1 to grow up feeling like she has been pushed out, I do plenty of things with her just me and her and make sure when she goes to her clubs and competitions I go on my own so I can fully support her. She stays at her grandmas for respite once a month, they spend the whole weekend together doing lovely things, I don't ask anything of her other than when I really have to.

I don't know how to fix it though and I'm carrying around this terrible guilt with me that I'm getting it all wrong and DD1 is going to hate me when she grows up .

Shady your car example sums it up
Brilliantly, it's lots of little things like that. Don't know what the answer is though!

And we3, that all sounds lovely, but what if you don't have that sort of help available?

It's so hard, every day I am faced with scenarios like this and I don't know what to do for the best. I know DD2 has to learn that she can't always get her own way, but when it's something simple like singing with her I don't understand (well I do) why DD1 can't just do it.

I find it much easier with DS because he is younger and knows no other way. He has already learnt just leave DD2 alone, but DD1 can't help herself in guessing because she has had 5/6 years on her own without DD2 and then suddenly she has to deal with a child who is so rigid, forceful and angry and I expect her to just 'get it'. I struggle myself with it. They also share a room and I know DD1 hates it, but there's nothing I can do about that. She often says she wants to live with my mum just so she can have stuff that isn't destroyed by DD2.

Shady, that's our experience too.

No family support here - they are a world away and don't care anyway. It's just dh and I coping with 4 dds (not hard), one of which had ASD/PDA (very hard).

Dd1 is impacted greatly by dd2. Stupid things like sleeping with the light in/off. This can excaserbate to 2 hr meltdowns at midnight. The easy solution of having their own rooms isn't an option bc dd2 is too scared to sleep alone. This problem is a drop in the ocean for us. But many if them exist, impacting dc and us.

I suppose it's lucky we don't have family criticising our choices. But we can see at times we are making the wrong choice for one dc, but the right for another. As our dc self-harms, we really don't have many choices.

On the waiting list for cahms family therapy....

That's exactly how I feel, like I'm making the wrong choice for one DC but then that's the choice that has to be made for the other one.

We also have the same bedtime problem, DD2 hates sleeping on her own and is nightmare when DD1 isn't here. She also has to sleep with 4 nightlights, the landing light on and the bedroom door open exactly the same amount every night! DD1 prefers sleeping in pitch back, but the poor thing has to sleep in near daylight. All because if we dared turn even one light off DD2 would have a huge meltdown. I can't imagine how it must be for DD1 having to live like this.

Sorry you're in the same boat though .

Sorry imip that sounds very difficult. I don't have any experience to add but in terms of the bedrooms could you move Dd2 in with you? Then maybe very slowly begin sleep training in terms of getting her into her own room? I'm sure it won't be quick or easy but maybe if dd1 has her own space to retreat from dd2 she will feel less resentful of dd2 in general and their relationship in other areas might improve?

Imip, how did you go about getting CAMHS family therapy? Can you self refer?

Shady I can see how hard it is for you. DD1 would be entering the contrary pre teen stage even if DD2 was NT. It's just so much harder for you all than it would be in almost any other family. DD1 probably feels pretty powerless and is exercising the little power she feels she has by refusing to sing etc. Could DD2 sit in the front so she can't hurt DD1?

Could DD1 be found some space for her special things in your room? Or a lockable cupboard that DD2 can't get into? Could she share a room with the toddler? She may find that easier.

imip I hope cahms is able to help your family. Could DD2 share your room for now, if she's scared to sleep alone? Or could the other DS rotate who has to share with her?

None of my suggestions may be any use because I don't know your circumstances, I'm trying to think back to how we would have handled the situation in our family.

Cross posted. Others posts have arrived since I started to reply.

I have 2 daughters, the older one has additional needs. Most of the time they do have a 'normal' sibling relationship, sometimes they get on and sometimes they don't!

My younger daughter is at an age where she finds her sister embarrassing when we are out but she will still take her to the shops on her own and can be incredibly patient with her. I think having a disabled sister is challenging but I do hope what zzzzz says "Our family is MORE because of the challenges we face, my children are stronger and more compassionate" is true for us.

My younger daughter does not provide childcare but will 'be in charge' if they don't want to come out for a dog walk or pop to the shops. When she is older and could do so I will pay her, if we went for a night out etc.

I think you're right, that's exactly what it is. The only bit of power DD1 has left and she is using it in this way, why didn't I think of that! She has space at the top of the wardrobe that DD2 can't get to, and also she is strictly forbidden from going on the top bunk as that is DD1's space. The things she destroys are stuff DD1 leaves lying around, so is not always DD2's fault in that sense!

I did say to her about sharing with DS but she doesn't want to he's not the greatest sleeper either. All she wants is her own room.

We live in a HA house, and I have read about the Staying Put grants that can pay towards extending the property. They're very hard to get though and an OT has to be involved. We have no one involved at all with DD2 so would be pretty impossible to obtain I think.

Thanks