2.9 yr old. Doesn't speak at home but apparently does at nursery?

[GingerFoxInAT0phat]

I have been debating whether to write this all night as its weighing very heavily on my mind.

Ds is 2.9, doesn't say any words apart from dada (not in context) Has very recently started to say 'uhoh' if he drops something. And 'tweet tweet' (more of a high pitched squeal) when he picks one of the Xmas decorations up.

He has his first speech therapy lesson in Jan after his assessment last June.

Hv saw us three months ago and said she was referring to paediatrician.

One of the nursery workers mentioned to me the other day that she had spoken to the Hv and she told the nursery worker she has decided not to refer him now and they apparently discussed how much he had come on at nursery.

I was puzzled by this as I don't feel like he had made hardly any progress. I spoke to his key worker and another member of staff and they both said he had been speaking.

After asking exactly what he says his key worker said he had been saying 'doggy', repeating words after her and she had heard the tail end of him taking to other children. The iPad footage she had of him has been deleted.

I get the feeling they are not intentionally lying but I feel very strongly that he hasn't been talking at all.

I don't even know what I am looking for here, is this common? Is there a reason they would say everything's fine, ringing Hv to tell her how much progress he has made? Is it me losing my marbles?

you need a referral to the paed. incredulous that the HV cancelled the referral on the advice of the nursery worker

I would go to GP to demand a referral.

Is there any chance to pull your DS out? nursery is not meeting his needs and are on top obstructing referrals. I would be livid and not sent him back (if that is possible at all) and find alternative childcare. I had to do this myself and we changed from a setting that denied issues to one that gave DD 1:1 support for most of the time, they applied for her statements of SEN etc.
the right setting can make such a difference.

Zzz, I only found out on Thursday that the nursery worker had spoken to the Hv in the first place. He wasn't in on Friday because he was at hospital.

I spoke to them more in depth yesterday and he hasn't been in today.

He goes in fine, has someone there who he runs straight too and does join in, play etc. Just doesn't talk.

He is young still, I'm going through all the channels I can to get him the help he needs, that's why my head has been in bits since finding this out and have posted on here for advice.

Chocadd1t, he was referred to a paediatrician on Friday by the hospital dr who he saw regarding grommets.
The Hv has since told me today that she didn't put it in in the first place for some unbeknown reason. (Started rambling on and I didn't get to the bottom of it) but was reassured he was fine from nursery.

He's not also been referred to Portage.

So right now we are waiting for
Salt session in Jan
Letter regarding grommets
Paediatrician appt
Something from Portage
Have ordered some PEC flash cards (need to look into how to introduce them some more)
And have emailed someone who does ABA to see if he is still in my area.

Am also now debating about nursery and whether to keep him at home until I have a meeting with the new nursery for when he is 3 in March.
My oldest boy is at school and I don't drive so am limited in choices so I can get them both there at the right times.

Sorry that was meant to say he HAS been referred to Portage.

I really would remove him. A nursery that will lie to HV will lie to SALT, paediatrician ed psych and that could really set him and you back in getting the additional support he needs.

It also sounds the HV messed up not referring 3 months ago and I would have no qualms in pressuring her to get the portage and paediatrician appointment arranged as an urgency.

I appreciate it all sounds dramatic but time is ticking and your son's age now is perfect for meaningful early intervention.

From my own personal experience, we got lost in the system due to a preschool and paediatrician farce and I learnt the hard way that you have to take control and not accept being led.

I would also ring SALT to try and find out what nursery had told them.

Thank you for your advice Dobbins!

I only remembered today that the nursery worker had said she had rung Salt herself 'to see how long an appt would be' So god knows what she said to them also.
Thankfully i made his appt on Friday for 18th Jan so that's going ahead regardless but I will definitely be ringing them tomorrow!

I think the hv's arse fell through today for not putting that referral through, especially when I said about the hospital dr putting it through herself. The dr also sent a letter to the Hv informing her. I would imagine she will be onto the case as she knows there's been a major fuck up, and tbh she was really apologetic and didn't try to minimise anything I said.

There was a moment where she asked if ds2 gave eye contact. He was eating shreddies at the time so she called out his name. He turned round and put the spoon horizontally across his eyes to cover them

Lol at the spoon-eye contact!
I really remember how overwhelming I found negotiating the "system", especially when your child is young and you don't want them to have difficulties. Especially when the likes of Nursery are giving reassurance that he is "fine". And the HV fails to deliver on referrals. But you have to push through, don't imagine the HV is on it, chase her whilst the guilt is fresh in her mind!
And sack-off the dreadful nursery

How long did it take to get a diagnosis for your little boy Dobbins?

Hv gave me her personal mob number so I will give her a ring next week and make sure she has done everything she told me she will, especially before the Christmas period comes up!

I will almost certainly pull him out of this nursery, I keep getting fits of rage thinking about them interfering in getting ds2 help.

Looking forward to speaking to someone from the school nursery, they are also moving into a brand new building in January so by the time he starts in March/April they should be settled and have lots of new facilities.

Ds1 was 1st referred to SALT and paediatrician when he was 2.0 and dx at 3.2. But the timescales actually ran:
2 referral
2.2 1st SALT assessment (Salt v concerned booked home visit)
2.3 2nd Salt appt (still concerned but DS1 more engaged)
2.3 paediatrician appt - disastrous - told me it was my fault due to depression, wasn't autistic as he waved goodbye (at my prompting). Didn't try and talk to him at all and wanted me to leave him unsupervised in reception! She also contacted the HV to tell her I was imaging it etc.
I withdrew from any future paediatrician appointment after that
Didn't hear from SALT again until he was 2.6.
2.6 Started at terrible preschool who blocked all salt attempts to see him
2.8 salt home visit told about paediatrician appt
2.9 withdrew from terrible preschool in a hiss fit of rage
2.9 place in nice preschool
2.9 salt ask me to go to paediatrician told new 1 in post and to go for Multidisciplinary referral
2.9 GP refers 3 times as referrals keep getting lost.
See community paediatrician who is nice and normal
3.2 have ADOS and multidisciplinary and dx given of ASD on the same day.

From multidisciplinary referral the wait was 12 weeks. In hindsight he could have been dx sooner.

Worth asking new nursery if he could try some settling in sessions with you before he turns 3 just to get a feel for it. Also salt and portage should be underway so would help them all work together.

Rage is good, use it effectively!

Oh good luck. We also had to deal with nursery minimising lo' s difficulties, saying everything was fine and making us feel like we were attention seeking, though SALT said he needed a speech and language unit, the gap was widening and he was first centile and below across the board in paed tests.just be prepared to fight long and hard for the right support for your son.

I can't believe how weary it makes you, I've just tested up reading your post dobbins - I don't even know why!

That first paed - wow what a prize tit!!

Glad once you got on track properly the dx was relatively quick. How is he now? Does he get on ok at school?

Slkk, it's starting to sound as if it's a common practice in preschools/nursery! How dare they?! Did you manage to get sorted?
Thank you :)

Ds1 is doing brilliantly now (he's 10.2 in yr5). I did fuck up again and had to change his school when he was yr3(!) but life is pretty good. I got him signed off from most services apart from specialist teacher. He was nominated class councillor having organised his group and given a rousing speech why he should be nominated. This still has me staggered as he generally hates team work, public speaking and praise. For the kid who spent his first SALT sessions silent and throwing over his shoulder at the Salt he's come along way!

The preschool years are so important though. After dx he was referred to Educational Psych and he got additional 1:1 funding in preschool. This did take 4 months though. I also was adamant he would be statemented to start school which he is (25hrs). That was all thanks to the mumsnet special needs board otherwise I would have been swayed to see how it goes. It's changed to ECHP? Ehcp? which I need to find out about as Ds1'S changes over in June.

I hated all the never ending visits from patronising professionals but they were a necessary evil to get the right level of evidence to get statemented and funding. Possibly going through it again with my DS3 but at least I know the ropes this time!

I still rage over the first paediatrician! The waiting room was a general one he could have walked out the front door onto street as it had wheelchair access button to open the doors. She thought I was being OTT!

Even if on the unlikely chance he's repeating stuff it could be echolalia!

Oooh things like this make me so angry. Hope all starts happening soon, OP

Class councillor! Fantastic!! Oh God we had a lot of 's today ha!

Even though I'm looking forward to the salt sessions I can't really see anything coming through fast as he doesn't understand what you say to him. Like if I said pass me the book. Or what sound does a dog make? He just doesn't know what I am saying.

But he is a cute little live wire, loves playing with his toy instruments, acts out his tv shows, loves super Mario which he plays on the wiiu and does all the movements. Listens and dances to music. Plays, laughs, giggles.
Just zero communication and has his odd little quirks, which I know a lot of toddlers do too.

Just this thread has helped me immensely so thank you to all who've replied, I'm read quite a few other threads too and learnt things from them.

Hope things are more plain sailing with ds3 Dobbins!

Thanks Bishop, I hope I'll be updating with some news soon!

A good SALT will give you advice on how to address your son's specific issues. It is positive he can copy movements and will engage in play and those things can be used to work on the understanding and communication difficulties.
If you haven't already, do apply for DLA for him. I let DS1's lapse when he started school but it was so useful during the preschool years.

Sorry for slow reply, op. Yes, I applied for an ehcp myself and it came through just in time to get a place in a unit to start reception. I'm a teacher, though, and I know they'd have kept on fobbing me off if I hadn't been confident enough and had enough knowledge to persevere. Good luck with your ds.

You should really have seen a SLT by now, even if he's chatting away like a trooper at nursery he should be at least using some words at home. People do love to downplay needs.

My son's SLT told me at 2.9 my son had asd, he was then diagnosed at 3.

I'm told my dyspraxic son is the fastest at getting changed, he is "one of the better talkers in the class" he has a receptive and expressive language disorder! Teacher confuses a child saying please and thank you with great speech.

I can't tell you how wearing that is. The school insist they know better than four SLTs, two EPs, OT and a Harley street doctor. I just roll my eyes now

Had a mega busy couple of days.

Am looking forward to the first session, the letter says they're a professional pre school speech therapist.
I have looked at the cerebra guide to the dla form, it's made me realise how much extra care we give ds2, it slowly just becomes the 'norm'.

Slkk, glad you got sorted and was confident enough to speak out!

2boys, he had his assessment for salt in June and have only just got an appt for his first session for January 🙄
I've had the downplaying for only a few months and it's hair tearingly annoying, I can't imagine it carrying on at school!

This thread has given me hope and disparity in equal measures

Despair that should be!

Like if I said pass me the book. Or what sound does a dog make? He just doesn't know what I am saying.

Model everything for him, my dd also had poor understanding and this worked:

Mum: dog says..? (Immediately) woof woof!

Try this a few times and the next time leave 2 seconds in between the question and answer in the hope that he will fill in for you, if he doesn't you answer it. It may take a few trials but repetitions helps, move on to other animal sounds when he gets the first.

With instructions, we would tell dd and then physically prompt her and praise with "well done dd you for me the book!".

Look into the Verbal Behavioural Approach, it's a simple book on a more play based form of ABA which you can do yourself. I also found the More Than Worss book useful.

If you can afford it, I would honestly start any intervention privately as I wasted many valuable months for the SALT to be told to spend "5minutes very say with no tv", I was hardly leaving my severely delayed child in from of the telly in the first place!

Good luck with your appointment but try not to get hopes up - it isn't a magic fix. The way it worked with our nhs salt was blocks of 4 sessions then a break. The first block of 4 was very play focused. The salt would talk about play, play a little game, video me playing with ds and then give us something to focus on at home. It was very frustrating! However, she was also allowing him to get comfortable in the clinic, observing, assessing etc and the next few blocks were much more focused on his specific needs. So just hang in there!

Goodness gracious...I could've written this post myself!

My son has just turned 3. He speaks very little and what he does say is very hard to understand. My son is currently seen by a private SALT and the local Speech and Language unit outreach provision (who both agree that his understanding of language is also behind.) Combine that with some of my son's different behaviours and that adds up to my husband and i starting the process of exploring if he has ASD.

Anyhow...my son has been going to Preschool 2 mornings a week since he was 2.5 and my problem is the same as yours...his preschool think apart from 'slower' speech, he is developing normally and I am just an over anxious mother. In fact when I showed the leader my son's 2 S&L reports that recommended interactions with my son be kept to 2 word phrases as he doesn't understand long phrases, she actually replied 'absolute rubbish, he understands' and when we discussed the recommendation to use Makaton she actually told me she doesn't believe in Makaton as 'children listen less!'

Consequently as she hasn't listened to the advice in regards my son's speech and I get no info on what he has done when he was there (and of course he can't tell me,) I have sorted out another nursery place for him, the only problem being there is a waiting list, but as I am confident they will better recognise his needs I am prepared to wait!

xx

Wow pandy I always think I cant be surprised at the stupidity and arrogance of so called professionals!!

And then you tell us that the nursery worker thinks that MAKATON stops children from listening!!

I am sorry but what the absolute fuck!!

I know.

The only thing that stopped me from pulling him out that day was that HE enjoys going and I knew finding a really supportive place this time would take time.

Like I say, we are on a waiting list for a nursery now and the leader there said that the staff use Makaton anyway and work on children's SALT targets on a daily basis. She also reassured me that could approach her at any time!

Like the OP said, I think the Mummsy Prechool I chose is lovely but old school and not up to date on sen
xx