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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

ok, what can we actually do about this rubbish sen system

130 replies

kojackscat · 28/05/2015 07:59

I read on here, day after day, about schools letting out kids down. Refusals to fill in ehcp forms, lies like ' you wont get a plan for behaviour problems ' and now I've just read 'ms schools don't do ehcp'

So, how do we get this system changed?
I know we are all exhausted from fighting for our children, but does anyone have the energy for one more fight?

We need publicity, petitions, lobbying, whatever else, to bring this to the publics attention.
We need teachers to be better trained in sen, sencos to have better understanding of the law, Las to have more/different duties, perhaps separate assessing and funding bodies.
Anyone up for starting a campaign on this? We cant let it continue to let our children down.

OP posts:
PolterGoose · 30/05/2015 15:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ouryve · 30/05/2015 15:20

Same person who is currently in a thread insisting that ADHD is a conduct issue. Because yes, I could so easily fix my child by superior parenting, regardless of the fact that he barely notices that I'm speaking to him when he is under-medicated.

bedelia · 30/05/2015 15:28

Soapbox - FANTASTIC post and ideas!

Icimoi · 30/05/2015 15:36

I've noticed a bit of a theme going with said poster's contributions on these threads, that she makes a very positive claim about the legal position without backing it up. She's done it on this thread, and she's done it again on the thread Running linked to - I still can't work out what law it is that she confidently claims sashh has been breaking, as she never once cites it. I say again, it seriously worries me that she's apparently responsible for advising local authorities on SEN. Mind you, if there are many LA SEN advisers like this, it could explain a great deal.

soapboxqueen · 30/05/2015 15:37

Ici there are. Hence a big chunk of the problem.

FunnyHowThingsWorkOut · 30/05/2015 16:31

Soapbox, I love you. Positive well thought out policy changes. That I can get on boars with.

I don't know if there are organisations that lobby for better SEN provision (in general, not specific conditions) because I don't know enough about this policy area. In many many areas of government policy there are well - respected think tanks and policy lobbyists who inform policy and educate the public about what changes are desirable. Is there such a body for SEN provision? And if so can Soapbox run it? Wink

uggerthebugger · 30/05/2015 21:25

Is there such a body for SEN provision?

There sure is. The Council for Disabled Children. And they sold us down the river, big time.

When the Government was developing its SEN reform programme, it brought the CDC into their tent. The CDC are an umbrella organisation that act on behalf of a number of disability-specific kids' charities.

The Government saw the CDC as important partners in this programme. But not for the reasons that you might think.

By bringing CDC into the tent - and, crucially, giving them tens of millions of pounds to commission and develop services - the government managed to effectively neuter CDC as an organisation capable of mounting meaningful challenge to the new legislation's failings.

One of the most gutting things about soapbox's awesome list of recommendations is that many of them were present in the 2011 Green Paper on SEN - this Green Paper set out what the Government hoped to do about the three-ring clusterfuck that is SEN provision.

By April 2014 -when the Bill was passed - the new law bore very little resemblance to this 2011 Green Paper.

Outside of a few genuinely independent bodies- IPSEA, SOS!SEN, the NDCS - there was barely a murmur of sustained protest and challenge in the charity-based policy sector. We have CDC to thank for that.

You'll have heard about the new Independent Supporters - that aren't actually independent, that won't support you if you need recourse to the law to guard your kids' rights, and that are mostly run by the same clown shows that brought us Parent Partnerships. We have CDC to thank for them too.

The Soviets used to have a phrase - useful idiots. These were people who would cheerlead on behalf of an utterly corrupt and morally bankrupt system in the naive hope that they could somehow make it more appealing, and possibly even change it.

That's the CDC, that is. Useful idiots.

And even now, after two years, I still read things like this CDC blog , and I still wonder what sort of reality distortion field they operated in.

ouryve · 30/05/2015 21:44

I remember the CDC survey of disabled children regarding the impending SEN changes. It was impossible to work out who they were aiming it at, since they were promoting it heavily on social media. I suppose I could have given it to DS1, but he wouldn't have had a clue what the questions were referring to. I'm suspecting that a tiny minority of CYP, nationwide, could complete the survey in a meaningful, informed, manner. Yet the survey was launched with huge fanfare and the results taken to be fully representative.

FunnyHowThingsWorkOut · 30/05/2015 22:59

Okay, so there is the element of capture that inevitably happens when civil society gets cosy with government.

I'm thinking about whether existing independent bodies such as those you mention would be fit for purpose with more funding and guidance. By purpose I mean increasing transparency, accountability and (eventually) better results for children.

There is philanthropic money to be had in aiming for greater transparency and accountability but I'm not sure whether it should go to existing organisations (as they are but with bolts on) or a new organisation.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 30/05/2015 23:14

Coming late to this thread, but have been following it. I think the gamechanger for many parents in the last 10 years has been the internet, with MN, the websites of SOSSEN, IPSEA, Special Needs Jungle, and their FB and Twitter feeds etc. Every person who posts on the MN SN boards (apart from the occasional randomer as experienced on this thread) helps others, as does everyone who blogs, everyone who shares FB posts from the SEN charities, everyone who speaks out on behalf of our children in the media.

I'm in the middle of my own fight at the moment, having recently been shat on by my LA, but I know I can see it through thanks to the internet and support from other parents IRL. But time and time again I realise that these sources of help are not reaching as many as they could. So I think we all need to continue to post, share and spread the word as widely as possible. Support IPSEA and SOSSEN. Lobby our MPs, take part in consultations etc. The system needs to change, there have been some great ideas in this thread and we all need to be as educated as possible in campaigning for change.

senvet · 31/05/2015 00:56

Soap love all the ideas especially this one:-
"power to issue fines or compulsion orders"

I have been helping parents as and when for years and nothing much has changed. It is same-old, same-old.

I still see "opportunities for", "would benefit from", "access to" and "regular" in every statement I am asked to look at.

I want Soap's ombudsman to issue directions (not guidance, directions), and make LAs stop this wording immediately for new statements, and to get rid of all of it in all existing statements within a year.

THEN I want the ombudsman to be proactive in doing random checks and surprise visits and fining, doing a compulsion order, and fining bigger amounts if the compulsion order is breached.

I want the Ombudsman to take some of the weight of parents - they have enough to contend with. If the LAs know that they might be fined at any moment, then they may sit up and behave.

Other jobs for the ombudsman's fines would be

  • missed deadlines (either deadlines set out in the Codes/Law/Regs or from Tribunal Directions)
  • failure to start to implement provision in a statement within eg 2 weeks of final
  • failure to complete implementation within eg 4 weeks of final

I guess I am wanting the ombudsman's fining to be on very black and white stuff. The LGO is all about taking everything into account, and is very slow and cumbersome and not a good deterrent anymore.

I'd prefer something short and sharp - the deadline is missed - pay up - SIMPLES - as the meerkat says

soapboxqueen · 31/05/2015 11:15

I think the point I was trying to make, though I do waffle, is that some issue are very much an sen issue but a big chunk affects all children whether they have needs or not.

Most parents can't accurately gage how well their children are doing. Even worse now that the national curriculum levels are gone, not that they were that great. So how can they challenge the school? How can they know that something is wrong enough to go somewhere else? If you have a relative in hospital you can at least see if they get sicker or are still bleeding or are confused or their leg fell off. You can't really do that for education unless their is a crisis or you get to exams or testing in year 6, which again has it's own issues. Ofsted might waltz through every 5 or 10 years but what use is that to your individual child?

How many threads do we read here or read in papers where a child is bullied or assaulted in school but the parent hits a brick wall. They complain but in reality if the head at the school has made a decision you are buggered. You can make your complaint but it probably won't go anywhere because there is no one to hold them to account. The governing body often look to the head to guide them through and even if the situation was so dire that they sacked the head (like never happens) there are few candidates to replace them. Schools are like mini republics without any real oversight.

Even if illegal activities occur, parents have no real way of proving it without the staff who either committed it confessing or their colleagues telling on them, as the only other witnesses are children and more often than not sen children.

Maybe that's another bullet point

*a legal duty by all school staff to report illegal application of statements or just general illegalness

I think the advent of the right to choose schools has also meant heads feel they can tell people to go find another school if they don't like how they do things. No real effort to accommodate. Just 'we do it this way if you don't like it, get lost'. Not that the illusion of school choice is a reality for many and certainly not for children with sen.

Then there is the issue of league tables. Not only do they give a false impression of literally every school, they make taking on children with sen less desirable because they cost money and pull down the average. Children just below the benchmark get more attention and even though we are supposed to be looking at how much progress all children make to ensure everyone succeeds, if you have such low expectations of sen children then it matters not one jot. If a child is being failed at infant level so they do badly on their ks1 assessments those assessments will follow them through until gcse. Even if they are doing better and thriving, those numbers will mean that they are seen as doing well rather than just plodding along, they won't get into booster groups if needed because they will already be 'exceeding expectations' .

*get rid of league tables. Schools should be able to justify why a child is where they are and it should be part of a written record that follows the child as a legal requirement like hospital notes.

I'm not advocating that schools should be handed over to parents so they can take charge of everything. Teachers are trained to do a job and they should be allowed to do it. However, parents and other stakeholders need to be able to see, and see quickly, when there are issues and they need robust organisations to help them when things go wrong.

senvet · 31/05/2015 18:35

I like this idea, although it might need refining a bit:-

a legal duty by all school staff to report illegal application of statements or just general illegalness

Just to break that ability of the LA to manipulate staff into saying things the way that the LA wants them to. Something to give heads and SENCOs some backbone to stand up to the LA when they know they are struggling to meet the needs of a child.

soapboxqueen · 31/05/2015 18:50

I know. I'm not sure how it would work but I know it's something they either have or are going to bring into the NHS.

I just think since we don't have eyes and ears on the ground and have to hope everyone is honest, it would be useful to make everyone know it's their responsibility too and give it legal backing.

Ineedmorepatience · 31/05/2015 19:36

WOW! I go away for a few days and all this happens on our usually quiet and supportive board!!

Where did those posters come from, I have never even seen Charis on here before. She was seriously pissed off about parents advocating for their children and "fighting" to get their needs met!

soap I love your ideas and can identify with much of what you say. The 3 schools that Dd3 has been in have all lied to me at one time or another. I even warned her second school to be very careful what was said/done in front of her as she will tell me exactly what she has heard or seen.

Honesty would make such a huge difference in the whole set up!!

What the poster charis seemed to fail to understand is that the law always trumps opinion, at the end of the day it doesnt matter what she thinks or any of the other people who claim to be some kind of professional, the law trumps all of it!!

We do need to stand up and be counted, we need to make our voices heard, because if we dont who will. Our children need us to be their voices because they dont have a voice!!

Ineedmorepatience · 31/05/2015 19:39

Oh and I think we all know some one who does not know how to advocate for their child, we were all that person once upon a time!

We have been forced to learn and I bet nearly all of us have helped at least one person, I recommend this board and IPSEA and other places to people all the time, I cant advocate for all their children but I can point them in the right direction!

FunnyHowThingsWorkOut · 31/05/2015 19:40

Okay, so going by these few comments focusing on accountability in schools is key, and not just in SEN provision.

OFSTED is supposed to provide accountability but is not doing what parents really want.

Key things for improving accountability of public institutions to citizens: there is lots of literature on this. Will have a think about it.

soapboxqueen · 31/05/2015 19:50

The current Ofsted model can't reality provide accountability because they are not answerable to nor accessible by the people who need it eg parents and children.

uggerthebugger · 31/05/2015 20:56

The current Ofsted model can't reality provide accountability because they are not answerable to nor accessible by the people who need it eg parents and children

This is all too true - and right now, Ofsted simply don't have the in-house expertise in SEN to grasp the issue, or even the willingness. I've done battle with Ofsted HQ on far too many occasions regarding their piss-poor inspections of specialist SEN provision.

However... Ofsted are getting a remit to hold LAs accountable for SEN provision, and it might offer some opportunity for action.

Starting early next year, Ofsted will begin to inspect LA SEN services to ensure that they are abiding by the new legislation. More details here

Right now, Ofsted are putting the framework together that will guide inspections of LA SEN services. This framework will go out for consultation soon.

We are very likely to get a chance to comment on the framework - to ensure that the evidence base that inspectors draw on goes beyond the confines of an LA conference room, to ensure that minimum expertise for inspectors is appropriate for the task, to ensure that inspectors with a conflict of interest don't get within sterilised shitty-stick distance of this job.

Left to their own devices, Ofsted will fuck this up. But if there's one thing that parents of kids with SEN are good at, it's assembling evidence, arguing a case, and showing bloody-minded persistence in the face of facepalming bureaucracy.

I think we have an opportunity here. And if Ofsted shut the door in our faces, then we lobby hard via media and contacts. Ofsted is an organisation with few friends right now - they will avoid a situation where they are forced to explain themselves to the DfE.

The battles I've had with Ofsted over the years have left me with some contacts inside the organisation. If people want to get involved in this, let me know and I can help coordinate stuff.

senvet · 02/06/2015 01:01

Oh Yes -

So we want whistle blowing compulsory

Do we want OFSTED to be the ombudsman given that they are an existing body?

And we have to educate OFSTED into understanding what the LAW says about SEN.

I have seen rubbish reports saying kids are making good progress on all aspects of the national curriculum when the National Curriculum totally fails to mention SEN because it is for bog standard people - idiots

soapboxqueen · 02/06/2015 09:52

I think either retask Ofsted or create something new 'edu-watch'.

Either way it should require extensive training and be run (or at least have on the board of trustees) teachers, parents and people with additional needs, folk from industry who will eventually employ all these children.

Not random government people or lecturers/consultants who wouldn't know education in the real world if it kicked them in they arse.

soapboxqueen · 02/06/2015 09:53

*the not they

FunnyHowThingsWorkOut · 02/06/2015 10:03

So there isn't currently an independent body (or anything called Education watch) that promotes accountability in UK education?

I think that sounds like a perfect gap in the NGO market.

If priorities for EducationWatch are about lobbying, finding out about problems, publicising them, and providing policy solutions (including greater focus in sanctions) then you have a way forward.

You get a group together to write a mission statement based on points made in this thread.

You get funding from educational publishers, accountability and transparency philanthropic bodies, education charities, special needs charities, and other sources.

You get a board composed exactly as below.

You employ a researcher specialising in education policy, and an advocacy bod, and start commission research and generate strategy.

With the right approach, in 3-5 years you will have presence and influence.

StarlightMcKenzee · 02/06/2015 11:36

There is IQM, which is a bit like that. However because they realise that with SEN they are starting so VERY low, their 'awards' are for schools who are half a percentage better than the majority of others iyswim.

I'm sure they intend to raise the level somehow by giving these awards and trying to push the benchmark up but my goodness, if they did things properly they wouldn't be awarding anyone and no-one would pay the blindest bit of attention to them.

StarlightMcKenzee · 02/06/2015 11:39

I don't think it will be easy to get funding for a group like that tbh. Who would fund it?

Most charities have been bought by the Government who employ an 'oversight' charity to regulate awards and funding to those who dance to their tune, and corrupt individuals try and move upwards through the created system to get closer to Westminster, in the belief that they're only being corrupt in order to get to the top where they can have influence, but by doing so perpetuate the corruption and the inadequacy of the system.