ok, what can we actually do about this rubbish sen system

[kojackscat]

I read on here, day after day, about schools letting out kids down. Refusals to fill in ehcp forms, lies like ' you wont get a plan for behaviour problems ' and now I've just read 'ms schools don't do ehcp'

So, how do we get this system changed?
I know we are all exhausted from fighting for our children, but does anyone have the energy for one more fight?

We need publicity, petitions, lobbying, whatever else, to bring this to the publics attention.
We need teachers to be better trained in sen, sencos to have better understanding of the law, Las to have more/different duties, perhaps separate assessing and funding bodies.
Anyone up for starting a campaign on this? We cant let it continue to let our children down.

Something like 80% of SEN reform money was spent on catering. One organisation did a FOI request asking for budget codes and how that money was spent and that appears to be what.

None of the money got to the kids, or frontline staff for that matter.

The law is upheld. If it's not and no one can enforce it then how do parents win tribunals? It was a pretty intimidating process. No one was laughing. The judge cut people dead mid sentence by quoting the law. The LA trumped up a statement pretty quickly after the jr letter went out. Why do that if there's no comeback? I take it you have first hand experience in that department?

Teachers don't need to know every details of the law but a senco should know that it's not right to let a child fall behind by two years as that's the required threshold to start the process. In my case I feel confident that she was told this by the LA - but where's the urge to check facts?

What narks me is that if I said things like this repeatedly in the private sector I would be sacked.

Again I do wonder why people work in a area where they find the subject matter so distasteful?

And yes I totally agree how is it fair that only parents with the knowledge or means know that for example LA blanket policies like the one I fell foul of is illegal?

Who does it hurt wanting a more transparent process where individual parents go to expensive tribunals ( and I'm talking tax payers expense here, not middle class entitled parents money). Why not look at the most often cases upheld and say "look this isn't true, go feed this back at grass routes and this isn't going to tribunal"

In the ideal world everyone would be on the same footing.

Starlight which organisation was that? So I can give them my support. Public expenditure tracking is where it is at.

I am just going to ignore Charis saying that people invent conditions.

Even when I tell the school exactly what my child needs and it is VERY EASY TO DO they don't do it.

A have met some amazing teachers. They don't need detailed medical knowledge to make a difference. Just to be signing from the same sheet as the NHS staff.

When it's gets to the point it's too much to ask of the teacher and the ta that's when EHC - or in our case statements kick in. In our case the class ta also has to deliver 17 hours of support within 13 hours of funds while teaching the rest of the class.

The senco said she ( ie the TA) would work free into the evening ( nice of her to volunteer up her life without consulting her) I don't think that's fair so we appeal again for more funding.

Appeals are won. They really are. You don't need to be a genius to see that 17 hours of intervention is more than 13 hours of banded funding so it's pretty easy to win. Once you win it has to be enforced. Simple. It happens.

So there's a massive waste of money. Tribunals cost about 10,000 a go. Better spent on children's education?

Funny, I think the data was collected compiled by a group named Special Needs Audit Follow Up.

Eebahgum you're making the mistake of assuming that all SENCOs in every school in every part of England are fully clued up as to their obligations and parents' rights and of a mindset to ensure those duties are carried out for every child, regardless of the parents' knowledge and ability to fight for that child. And many LAs take great pains to completely undermine the spirit of any laws and regulations intended to protect children with SEN.

I can't be the only person who saw the Essex logo on Born Naughty earlier and thought "Oh dear. Good luck."

Charis if I hadn't fought for DS1's placement, which really is expensive, without even going into costs as an issue because there was no other option, he wouldn't be in school any more. He's only in year 6. He was at a lovely, small, inclusive MS school and it was making him ill and very, very angry.

Are you trying to suggest I was selfish for wanting at least an adequate education for my child - and one that would undoubtedly save him from being institutionalised elsewhere, possibly for much of the rest of his life?

I have a child in year 4 who is only just starting to talk and is not accessing the national curriculum. He's loving MS primary, but secondary will be a different matter, even before you consider that he's doubly incontinent and needs a fully secure site so he can' just wander off. In the light of lack of money, do tell me what I should be happy to settle for, on his behalf, come year 7. Maybe by then he'll have learnt enough pencil skills to spend his days aimlessly colouring in at the local failing SS academy?

Serious question, for a child who will never have the capability to move, speak or even recognise a face, how much money should the country spend on helping them reach their educational potential?

ODFOD.

Just read ugger'spost to DH. He pointed me to an article in Private Eye, this week about Derby City Council's need to cut the wages of 600 staff. They've spent about £6m on consultancy fees as part of the process, but can't say how much they've saved.

This is why so many councils have "no money".

Gosh, this has been a very interesting thread to read. I've been following from the start, but have not had time until now to post.

Yes, I would very much like to be involved in anything that comes out of this (Kojacks, I'll PM you shortly).

IMO, the whole education system is flawed, but particularly the SEN system. In my LA, the education budget last year was 20% less than it was in 2008! Not just the SEN budget, the entire amount allocated to schools. So I can only imagine how tightly the education budget has been squeezed

I fully realise that budgets are at the heart of many of the perceived problems with the current SEND system, and this is where the issue lies. Teachers, SENCO's and Schools are at the mercy of their budget, which is negotiated through the LA - and their education budgets, which in turn is negotiated from central government.

BUT, the law trumps all. The legal duties related to the Children and Families act came into force in September last year, which promised to "reform the way support is provided for children and young people with special educational needs and disabilities." As Ed Timpson pointed out in his letter to Lead Members, Chief Executives and Directors of Children's Services: "The Act places the views, wishes and aspirations of children, parents and young people at the heart of the system and requires a culture change in the ways in which professionals work with families and with each other."

Note my emphasis on "culture change": this is the key thing. Parents need more awareness; LA's should (and hopefully will) be held accountable, more so if parents are aware of the law. If more training and larger budgets are required for LAs to meet the requirements set out in law, central government need to know and develop strategies to manage this.

Oh, I could go on about this all day, but I don't want this to turn into an essay...

In addition to the other (possibly interested) organisations mentioned on this thread, I'd also like to point out SEN Jungle, in particular this post: www.specialneedsjungle.com/parents-must-advocate-for-each-other-to-make-the-new-send-system-work/ It makes for very interesting readiong (as do many other posts on the site) and reminded me very much of the intent behind this thread - that we need to work together in order to make change happen.

There are SENCOs out there who haven't even received the initial SENCO training.

There are LAs who say DC who are 'coping' (maintaining a PT timetable with great difficulty and distress) in MS are not eligible for statements or ECHPs.

There are dozens of Yr 7 & 8 pupils left without any placement whatsoever because an ostrich stance has been maintained about secondary transfer.

LAs ignore correspondence, decline mediation, miss statutory deadlines, take their own sweet time over the simplest of enquiries, fail to hold annual reviews.

(I'm not just talking about my own DC. I have seem all these things multiple times in my other role.)

The system is only as good as the recourse available when laws and statutory guidance are breached and the recourse available is toothless.

Time after time parents reach tribunal and secure decent packages but there is no penalty to the schools or LAs for the roadblocks and obfuscation that they threw up along the way. So LAs continue to do it. It saves them a few terms' worth of fees or funding.

The fact that one or two teachers become indignant when these things are recounted, does not make them less true.

Please pm me if you are interested in becoming involved

I have chronic fatigue syndrome so you can imagine how much fun it is trying to fight for my child's needs when I can hardly get out of bed or make myself lunch some days. I need people on his side who can deliver, not just say nice things and reassure me.

"There are dozens of Yr 7 & 8 pupils left without any placement whatsoever because an ostrich stance has been maintained about secondary transfer".

Can attest to that, some great kids in my son's year have indeed been failed and that failure will be reflected in their exam results. (I feel for those who will do the new exam system).

Resources do exist, its accessing them easily and without a myriad obstacles and lies being put in the way that is the problem. I am even now grateful to the person who advised me to apply for a Statement myself for him all those years ago.

Our LEA continues to operate the model of money-saving by refusing early interventions only to encounter enormous costs when problems become so severe they can only be met by out-of-county independent placements. Ds2 is less "autistic" than his twin but because he was left to struggle at mainstream when his brother got an EBD placement his needs are now greater because of mental health problems. I remain convinced that if their difficulties had been recognised earlier in mainstream and they had received appropriate (which would not have been very costly) support then they both could have coped.

Having said that education services has really been the only means by which my ds's have received practical support. Our experience with education services is not great but is still infinitely better than medical professions who discharge once diagnosis is reached without support or even advice and social services who prefer to spend their time doing assessment interviews and fighting amongst themselves as to who is responsible for offering support.

I don't want to be confrontational about this, but I have to say that it worries me that Charis actually advises LAs about SEN. How can she say, for instance, that the law on SEN is different every year and comes under child protection? The current law came into force in September last year, previous to that we were working on the basis of the Education Act 1996, some important parts of which are still in force. Yes, there are case law developments, but it's not hard to keep up to date on those. And any involvement with child protection will be largely coincidental.

It also bothers me that she suggests it is impossible to train teachers to provide for SEN, including some of the most common difficulties such as ASD and dyslexia. How does she imagine the specialist schools cope? How do specialist dyslexia tutors get the results they do (and I write as someone for whose son a specialist dyslexia teacher achieved fantastic results). Yes, it is difficult to offer all those strategies in the mainstream classroom, but then in general it is not the most severely affected children who are encountered in the mainstream. Certainly it should not all be down to class teachers, schools need to be funded adequately to provide adequate trained LSAs and specialist teachers.

Which brings us to the money side. As a country, we cannot afford to decide that we won't bother to provide properly for children with SEN. It is documented beyond any possible doubt that a wholly disproportionate number of those in the justice and prison systems have learning difficulties. Prison costs £50K per year per head, to say nothing of court costs and the damage crime does in other areas. And of course people in prison aren't contributing to society by paying taxes and will find it difficult to get jobs on their release, thus adding to the benefits bill. The reality is that money spent on proper provision for SEN is an investment.

How does she imagine the specialist schools cope?

I've worked in specialist schools. There are some very good staff, and they have developed a range of flexible approaches from experience. You learn the child, rather than the policy.

Also, have seen some terrible practice, and seen schools not cope at all, ASD classes being left for a week with an untrained TA, or even a cleaner!

I'm glad your son benefited from tutoring, most children do benefit from one-2-one, with SEN or not. Again, it is a case of learning the child not the policy.

LA's have a statutory responsibility to provide 'appropriate provision' to children with SEN. This is written in law by the people who fund LAs.

The who reason there is a problem is because LA's have been lying to their funders for years about the true cost of provision by sharing resources illegally, and fudging data on progress, lying to parents, encouraging parents to have low expectations of their children and by incorporating long delays into every step.

These lying LA's are training and convincing schools how to lie, perpetuating myths about resources and about parents to justify themselves.

If there is a shortfall in cash then the LA's need to stop telling parents whose children are entitled to it and start telling the Government who have written laws ensuring the children are entitled to it and who fund that.

Instead we get LA's promising the Government they are fully ready to implement the SEND reforms and then breaking the law at every step, forcing parents to fight expensive legal battles to get the provision the LAs have told the Government they are able to provide.

There also appears to be a direct relationship between funding and meetings. The more money LAs get, the more meetings they fund to find ways of avoiding spending it on the actual kids. That is how it appears to me.

I was recently told by a SENCO that post 16 evaluations are definitely not needed either for university/college applications (where the process involves interview or other test) or for DSA. This is completely incorrect. It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

I am sorry, but I refuse to believe any school in any part of the uk leaves a cleaner to teach the class. That is just not true!!!!!

Ps I have been a school cleaner, we worked before and after school, rarely saw a child and certainly DID NOT do a bit of teaching on the side.

I refuse to believe any school in any part of the uk leaves a cleaner to teach the class. That is just not true

Ok, that just shows how far away some parents perception is from reality. It happened. ( This was the same school where lessons were cancelled for a day and the children made to clean the school.........because the cleaners were unavailable)

WTF? Did you actually just say this....?

Have you got an answer loupdelou?

So what happened when the children were made to clean the school whilst lessons were cancelled? Or indeed when the cleaner was teaching the class? Because if my children came home and told me this had happened I would have been making a hell of a fuss, and I suspect that is true of a very substantial proportion of parents.